TV & Film Fans of The Untamed or MDZS/ Master of Diabolism (etc.)

[Soot]

this makes me laugh

 

[Reid]

View attachment 817682
this makes me laugh

Lmfao thats hilarious

 

[Crayons]

View attachment 817682
this makes me laugh

This is amazing XD

 

[Crayons]

So... I'm doing a rewatch of our fave show and something occurred to me.

Spoiler

Isn't the massacre of Lotus Pier directly Jiang Fengmian's fault?

He had at least a month warning (based on timings that are vocalised by characters)to prepare for the Wen clan arrival, and even before that he knew that they were on the warpath, what with the forced indoctrination and destruction of Cloud Recesses and yet he puts no defences in place, makes no arrangements for clan members to go elsewhere to hide or join up with other clans, or even to take the clan treasures somewhere safe, and basically sits on his arse until JiaoJiao just walks straight in.

This guy is seriously incompetent. And I'm not letting Madam Yu off the hook either here because if Fengmian didn't do anything then she should have. Why were they so lax in setting defences?

 

[Reid]

So... I'm doing a rewatch of our fave show and something occurred to me.

Spoiler

Isn't the massacre of Lotus Pier directly Jiang Fengmian's fault?

He had at least a month warning (based on timings that are vocalised by characters)to prepare for the Wen clan arrival, and even before that he knew that they were on the warpath, what with the forced indoctrination and destruction of Cloud Recesses and yet he puts no defences in place, makes no arrangements for clan members to go elsewhere to hide or join up with other clans, or even to take the clan treasures somewhere safe, and basically sits on his arse until JiaoJiao just walks straight in.

This guy is seriously incompetent. And I'm not letting Madam Yu off the hook either here because if Fengmian didn't do anything then she should have. Why were they so lax in setting defences?

Spoiler

That's honestly an interesting point that I never thought about and you're probably right. I suppose he might have been counting on wwx/jc going to the Wens to possibly cool things down but even then, should have had a plan b lol.

 

[Crayons]

Spoiler

That's honestly an interesting point that I never thought about and you're probably right. I suppose he might have been counting on wwx/jc going to the Wens to possibly cool things down but even then, should have had a plan b lol.

Spoiler

Yeah, I mean the boys going to the Wens should have been a big red warning light, but apparently even after they got back, after the Wens deliberately left them in a cave TO DIE, he still did sweet F A for a month. I know he's kind of a chill and relaxed guy but really?! XD

 

[Reid]

Spoiler

Yeah, I mean the boys going to the Wens should have been a big red warning light, but apparently even after they got back, after the Wens deliberately left them in a cave TO DIE, he still did sweet F A for a month. I know he's kind of a chill and relaxed guy but really?! XD

Spoiler

JFM is not a good dad, tbh once you start looking at it closely. He completely gave up on his marriage and doesn't hide his favoritism. I'm not letting Madam Yu off the hook either, but she has a point in saying that JC is their son, their heir and should be treated as such. JFM let his bitterness at the fact that Cangse Saren didn't choose him and his dislike of his own wife get in the way of being an actual good father to his own damn son. Madam Yu didn't help either because she was the one constantly picking a fight and then lashing out at JC who wasn't at fault in terms of her shitty marriage.

 

[Crayons]

Spoiler

JFM is not a good dad, tbh once you start looking at it closely. He completely gave up on his marriage and doesn't hide his favoritism. I'm not letting Madam Yu off the hook either, but she has a point in saying that JC is their son, their heir and should be treated as such. JFM let his bitterness at the fact that Cangse Saren didn't choose him and his dislike of his own wife get in the way of being an actual good father to his own damn son. Madam Yu didn't help either because she was the one constantly picking a fight and then lashing out at JC who wasn't at fault in terms of her shitty marriage.

Spoiler

All the family scenes at Lotus Pier were so delightfully awkward. XDDD

 

[Reid]

Spoiler

All the family scenes at Lotus Pier were so delightfully awkward. XDDD

Spoiler

lmao. The actors who played the Jiang parents created the awkward atmosphere of their characters so well lol. JFM's face when he sees madam yu walk in on their dinner session. Lmfaoo.

 

[Soot]

I guess I forgot if this was novel canon or movie canon but

Spoiler

didn't JFM plan to go to the Wen sect for something? Maybe he assumed that relations weren't that bad between the two sects? And especially because of the one month wait time, maybe he took that as a sign that things weren't so serious at all? Not to defend him tho — I didn't like him much as a character either

 

[Reid]

I guess I forgot if this was novel canon or movie canon but

Spoiler

didn't JFM plan to go to the Wen sect for something? Maybe he assumed that relations weren't that bad between the two sects? And especially because of the one month wait time, maybe he took that as a sign that things weren't so serious at all? Not to defend him tho — I didn't like him much as a character either

Not that I remember.

 

[Crayons]

I dot mind him as a character - he's just too chill and nice for his own good. He's like a hippy dad who lets you smoke weed at home. XD

 

[Reid]

I dot mind him as a character - he's just too chill and nice for his own good. He's like a hippy dad who lets you smoke weed at home. XD

And slightly neglectful. I'll imagine he's the type that you think he's cool when you're a kid because he lets you do whatever you want but then when you look back on it, it's like....oh.
because:
1. Left you at home alone to eat only crackers and cheese cubes because there was barely anything in the fridge.
2. Came home at odd hours of the night, most likely drunk or stoned out of his mind. Immediately goes to bed after half-assing an interaction with you.
3. Friend group seemed to rotate like a revolving door.
4. Sometimes dragged you along to places where you just sit in the corner awkwardly while he visits a "friend" (dealer??)
5. In this universe, YZY and he are divorced but you still go to her on weekends (split custody?) where she probably bad mouths him the entire time.
6. Stiff awkward exchange when YZY hands you back to him.

 

[Crayons]

And slightly neglectful. I'll imagine he's the type that you think he's cool when you're a kid because he lets you do whatever you want but then when you look back on it, it's like....oh.
because:
1. Left you at home alone to eat only crackers and cheese cubes because there was barely anything in the fridge.
2. Came home at odd hours of the night, most likely drunk or stoned out of his mind. Immediately goes to bed after half-assing an interaction with you.
3. Friend group seemed to rotate like a revolving door.
4. Sometimes dragged you along to places where you just sit in the corner awkwardly while he visits a "friend" (dealer??)
5. In this universe, YZY and he are divorced but you still go to her on weekends (split custody?) where she probably bad mouths him the entire time.
6. Stiff awkward exchange when YZY hands you back to him.

Yes, yes, yes! Exactly!! This is exactly what I meant with the stoner dad remark! He seems cool and is well intentioned but ultimately has none of the responsibility and sense of duty that a parent should. He loves his kids but he has no idea what the word "discipline" even means.

YZY is hard on Jiang Cheng because she wants him to have more sense of responsibility than his dad. And it turns out that he does! But maybe takes it a bit too seriously. "Jin Ling I'm gonna break your legs!" is code for "My daddy never disciplined me so I'm bringing you up properly!"

Also: buying your kid pets and after he gets attached to them taking them away for your next spur of the moment idea is just that kind of stoner thinking.

 

[Reid]

Right. JFM, even in canon, seems like he just threw up his hands and gave up. He didn't outright hate JC, but he definitely neglected him emotionally.

I wish YZY had gone about it in a better way. I know she loved her son, but her issues with JFM heavily affected JC and she lashed out on JC more than once. And JC NEVER wanted to allow himself to become his parents to JL. For all his anger and yelling at JL throughout the show, he never once laid his hands on JL and JL knew on a subconscious level that his uncle loved him fiercely, even if he struggled to convey that verbally.

Oof yeah. JFM didn't stop to think of a compromise. He just went "oop. No more pets for you"

 

[Soot]

Not that I remember.

I think that was novel canon, but wiki could be inaccurate ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm really loving this discussion about JC's childhood. I don't think I have a lot of information/headcanons about it since the TV series didn't touch on it all that much? Or if they did, I've forgotten about the details, since most of my focus in MDZS is post-resurrection and post-canon. The pet thing really is shitty, I gotta say. I mean if he can't compromise, at least he should've convinced JC or something? Like what I see parents do is provide the children with a reason or a different perspective until they sort of agree. But still, compromises are so easy here — like, just give it to maybe the servants or something, so that it's not in the main house but JC could still visit and such. It's not that hard my dude.

I recently read this fic where JL is punished in Cloud Recesses, but he went "they're not actually gonna hit me, are they? like I've never been hit before" and I was like awwww Jiang Cheng you softie

 

[Reid]

I think that was novel canon, but wiki could be inaccurate ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm really loving this discussion about JC's childhood. I don't think I have a lot of information/headcanons about it since the TV series didn't touch on it all that much? Or if they did, I've forgotten about the details, since most of my focus in MDZS is post-resurrection and post-canon. The pet thing really is shitty, I gotta say. I mean if he can't compromise, at least he should've convinced JC or something? Like what I see parents do is provide the children with a reason or a different perspective until they sort of agree. But still, compromises are so easy here — like, just give it to maybe the servants or something, so that it's not in the main house but JC could still visit and such. It's not that hard my dude.

I recently read this fic where JL is punished in Cloud Recesses, but he went "they're not actually gonna hit me, are they? like I've never been hit before" and I was like awwww Jiang Cheng you softie

Yeah because it's difficult to sort of translate every aspect of a character on screen due to the fact that half that time is needed for the main plot. And a lot of the info we have is based on small paragraphs or sentences that kinda show a light into how their home life was like. Like for example, the show doesn't tell you the fact that JFM knew WWX's mom and that he had been in love with her. He wanted to marry her but he had to marry YZY for political reasons. However, we do get a bit of the interaction between YZY and JFM when wwx wakes up that hints that. (Her alluding to wwx possibly being his son by cangse saren. Which isn't true btw but she was pissed off at him)

Thing is, jfm just gave up. He's not about compromise lol. He took the easy way out of that situation.

 

[Soot]

Reid

jeez yeah, that’s irresponsible imo. We don’t know how good he is at being a sect leader but he’s definitely not dad material

 

[Crayons]

Reid

jeez yeah, that’s irresponsible imo. We don’t know how good he is at being a sect leader but he’s definitely not dad material

Spoiler

I think letting the Wen clan tear his whole sect down and kill everyone indicates that he is a bad sect leader.

It's about the most convincing evidence I can think of.

I think it's hard for JFM being surrounded by angry people. He just doesn't get it. He probably sees some of the worst aspects of YZY in JC, whereas YZY is always pissed off at JC for not being a special genius like WWX and making her look bad.

Getting rid of pets AND playing favourites with your children.... JFM what are you like.

 

[Reid]

Spoiler

I think letting the Wen clan tear his whole sect down and kill everyone indicates that he is a bad sect leader.

It's about the most convincing evidence I can think of.

I think it's hard for JFM being surrounded by angry people. He just doesn't get it. He probably sees some of the worst aspects of YZY in JC, whereas YZY is always pissed off at JC for not being a special genius like WWX and making her look bad.

Getting rid of pets AND playing favourites with your children.... JFM what are you like.

Yeah that makes sense. He really did just throw his hands up in the air and was like fuck it whatever

 

[Crayons]

So, given that JFM and JGS are both trash fathers and YZY is a trash mother, who do we think was actually a good parent in Untamed? (Not counting LWJ XD)

 

[Soot]

Probably No one . Everyone has daddy or mommy issues, unfortunately. Other candidates (the ones who were alive at the start of canon) are LQR & WRH I think, unless we start racking our brains for more minor characters

 

[Crayons]

Probably No one . Everyone has daddy or mommy issues, unfortunately. Other candidates (the ones who were alive at the start of canon) are LQR & WRH I think, unless we start racking our brains for more minor characters

It would be superbly ironic if Wen Ruohan turns out to be the best dad. XDDD He raised his kids to have confidence in themselves at least.

 

[Soot]

I mean he might be a shitty person but that doesn’t mean he’s a shitty dad

 

[Onmyoji]

WWX actual parents had potential to be good but didn't live long enough.