Exalted 3e Playtest Leaks - Discussion

[The Dark Wizard]

[QUOTE="Lord of Chaos]No, just an example of the current mind control. It is easier to resist, but is quite powerful when it succeeds. It's also arguably the strongest (and one of the only) Unnatural Mental Influence-equivalent charms in the document. Mind control and forcing people to do things against their nature is VERY rare and difficult now
Bonus entry: Bards are totally a thing now

Spoiler

Battle Anthem (of the Solar Exalted)


Cost: 1m; Mins: Performance 5, Essence 2; Type: Simple


Keywords: None


Duration: One song


Prerequisite Charms: Mood-Inducing Music


The Lawgiver draws down the Essence of battle and manifests it through the medium of her instrument. While playing this song in combat, the Solar and her allies each automatically gain one Initiative per round, and their successful withering attacks each award an additional point of bonus Initiative. Allied battle groups who can hear the Solar’s music enjoy (Solar’s Essence) bonus dice to their attacks. While using this Charm, the Solar can’t take any non-Reflexive actions. This song does not stack with itself when played by more than one ally. Under the effects of Soul Voice, allies automatically gain two Initiative per round, and battle groups gain (Solar’s Essence) automatic successes to their attacks.


So concepts that involve music are finally doable now?


God knows you and I have tried many times in our groups.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Lord of Chaos]

The music charms tend to be about affecting the emotions of those around you, which includes making your side brave or whipping a crowd to frenzy etc. They have a unique "One Song" duration. As long as you keep singing and not taking any other non-reflexive action, the charm continues to have effect. The bard-song charm I posted above is very useful (free initiative is one of the best buffs you can get), but it does stop you from participating directly in the fight. Fortunately, Zeniths get Performance AND survival. Your giant lion doesn't have to spend his turn singing, after all

 

[The Dark Wizard]

[QUOTE="Lord of Chaos]The music charms tend to be about affecting the emotions of those around you, which includes making your side brave or whipping a crowd to frenzy etc. They have a unique "One Song" duration. As long as you keep singing and not taking any other non-reflexive action, the charm continues to have effect. The bard-song charm I posted above is very useful (free initiative is one of the best buffs you can get), but it does stop you from participating directly in the fight. Fortunately, Zeniths get Performance AND survival. Your giant lion doesn't have to spend his turn singing, after all

[/QUOTE]
Interesting.


I'm really liking everything you've shown us so far.


How are turns/initiative determined now?>

 

[Lord of Chaos]

Hoo boy. This is one of the more fiddly parts of the new system


At a base level, it uses a standard turn system. Everyone goes in order to take one action, then it starts over at the top. The tricky part is that your current Initiative determines your turn order, so the order will almost certainly change every turn. There are some special cases in place to ensure that initiative changes can't make someone skip a turn

 

[The Dark Wizard]

[QUOTE="Lord of Chaos]Hoo boy. This is one of the more fiddly parts of the new system
At a base level, it uses a standard turn system. Everyone goes in order to take one action, then it starts over at the top. The tricky part is that your current Initiative determines your turn order, so the order will almost certainly change every turn. There are some special cases in place to ensure that initiative changes can't make someone skip a turn

[/QUOTE]
How is current initiative determined?

 

[Lord of Chaos]

It starts at your join battle result. Whenever you suffer a Withering attack, the damage is subtracted from your Initiative and your attacker gains damage+1 Initiative. Initiative can also be consumed by Decisive attacks, dealing Initiative damage dice against their HP, but resetting your Initiative to 3 on a successful attack. If your Initiative goes to 0 or lower, you Crash. You cannot launch Decisive attacks in Crash, and the person who made you crash gains +5 Initiative


In a test battle I ran between one Heroic Mortal Badass and four Average Bandits, initiative swung pretty wildly between -5 and 15, with the highest result being 20

 

[The Dark Wizard]

[QUOTE="Lord of Chaos]It starts at your join battle result. Whenever you suffer a Withering attack, the damage is subtracted from your Initiative and your attacker gains damage+1 Initiative. Initiative can also be consumed by Decisive attacks, dealing Initiative damage dice against their HP, but resetting your Initiative to 3 on a successful attack. If your Initiative goes to 0 or lower, you Crash. You cannot launch Decisive attacks in Crash, and the person who made you crash gains +5 Initiative
In a test battle I ran between one Heroic Mortal Badass and four Average Bandits, initiative swung pretty wildly between -5 and 15, with the highest result being 20

[/QUOTE]
It sounds even more complicated then the stupid battle wheel system that everyone hated.

 

[Lord of Chaos]

In practice, it's not that bad from the short personal tests I ran. If you haven't gone yet, your initiative is almost always going to decrease rather than increase, so you just follow a list that you update

 

[Grey]

It sounds complex, but I suspect it'll run smoother in the long run. May see if I can get ahold of the doc and look into it

 

[Lord of Chaos]

Check out the 4chan.org/tg Exalted General thread if you can catch it. They have it

 

[Grey]

I checked there last night and it was all quest threads, but it's one of the faster moving boards so I probably missed it. And should start using the catalog. *grumbles about newfriends on my lawn*

 

[Lord of Chaos]

http://boards.4chan.org/tg/thread/32857002

 

[Lord of Chaos]

I just playtested a starting Dawn(Melee/Resistance) vs a Night (Stealth/Thrown). Night had the initial upper hand due to stealth and better join battle roll, managing to kite the Dawn around for a few turns while doing moderate damage. Then the Dawn caught up and the Night kept failing to re-establish surprise, allowing the Dawn's more focused attacks to quickly tear down his frailer opponent.


A few notes I found: Athletics charms would be very helpful against ranged enemies. Not mandatory at all, but still helpful.


Low-tier charms saw the most use as they are widely applicable, cheap and damn useful.


Do everything you can to avoid Initiative Crash. That way lies horrible murderation

 

[The Dark Wizard]

[QUOTE="Lord of Chaos]I just playtested a starting Dawn(Melee/Resistance) vs a Night (Stealth/Thrown). Night had the initial upper hand due to stealth and better join battle roll, managing to kite the Dawn around for a few turns while doing moderate damage. Then the Dawn caught up and the Night kept failing to re-establish surprise, allowing the Dawn's more focused attacks to quickly tear down his frailer opponent.
A few notes I found: Athletics charms would be very helpful against ranged enemies. Not mandatory at all, but still helpful.


Low-tier charms saw the most use as they are widely applicable, cheap and damn useful.


Do everything you can to avoid Initiative Crash. That way lies horrible murderation

[/QUOTE]
Nice !


Can you run one of these tests on the forum via post by post so we can see it?

 

[Lord of Chaos]

Sure. I'll type up a battle between a dodgy night caste dagger guy and a dawn with heavy armor and a greatsword

 

[The Dark Wizard]

[QUOTE="Lord of Chaos]Sure. I'll type up a battle between a dodgy night caste dagger guy and a dawn with heavy armor and a greatsword

[/QUOTE]
Wooo

 

[Lord of Chaos]

For this fight, both characters will be combat specialists, about as good at their job as you can expect from somewhat experienced characters who still have some outside skills.

Spoiler

Strength: 4


Dexterity: 4


Stamina: 5


Wits: 3


Perception: 3


Melee 5 (Giant Swords)


Resistance 5


Awareness 5 (Spotting Hidden Foes)


Athletics 5


Essence: 2


Personal: 16


Peripheral: 40


Willpower: 7


Health: -0/-0/-0/-1/-1/-1/-1/-2/-2/-2/-2/-4/Incap


Defense: 4


Soak: 13


Equipment:


Greatsword: +0 Accuracy, +11 Damage, -1 Defense


Heavy Armor: +8 Soak, -2 Mobility


Charms:


Excellent Strike


One Weapon, Two Blows


Peony Blossom


Dipping Swallow Defense


Solar Counterattack


Sensory Acuity Prana


Durability of Oak Meditation


Ox-Body Technique x2


Front-Line Warrior's Stamina






Strength: 3


Dexterity: 5


Stamina: 3


Wits: 5


Perception: 3


Melee 5 (Knives)


Dodge 5 (Against one foe)


Awareness 5


Athletics 5


Stealth 5


Essence: 2


Personal: 16


Peripheral: 40


Willpower: 7


Health: -0/-1/-1/-2/-2/-4/Incap


Defense: 6


Soak: 5


Equipment:


Knives: +4 Accuracy, +7 Damage, +0 Defense


Light Armor: +2 Soak, -0 Mobility


Charms:


Excellent Strike


Hungry Tiger


Fire and Stone Strike


Perfect Shadow Stillness


Blinding Battle Feint


Reed in the Wind


Searing Quicksilver Flight


Force-Stealing Feint


Seven-Shadow Evasion


Safety Between Heartbeats


Big is going to go for a direct approach: Hit Hurtful even once or twice and the game is up. Hurtful has a lot of ways to avoid getting hit, and charms that make missing him hurt, but lacks much direct punch. Let's get this party started

 

[Lord of Chaos]

Join Battle (NOTE: I assume every action gets a 2-die stunt)


Big rolls: 6; 5; 10; 6; 5; 4; 1; 2 for 2 successes


Hurtful rolls: 7; 2; 3; 3; 5; 6; 6; 9; 3; 10; for 4 successes after activating Blinding Battle Feint for 3m. He goes first, and starts the battle in stealth due to BBF


ROUND 1


Hurtful-Initiative 4;7hp;7wp;56m


Big-Initiative 2;13hp;7wp;56m


Hurtful launches a withering attack at Big, blowing 8m on the Excellency and 1m each on Excellent Strike and Hungry Tiger to take advantage of his concealment. He rolls


1; 6; 10; 1; 2; 6; 6; 3; 3; 3; 7; 3; 10; 9; 4; 5; 1; 6; 5; 7; 3; 10; 4; 10; +3 successes, for a total of 14. Excellent Strike allows Hurtful to reroll 1s, so he does so, getting 8; 1; 3; (1 more success). Another 1 has turned up, so he rerolls that as well, getting a 9. That brings Hurtful's attack up to 18 successes.


Big has a Defense of 4+2 for the stunt, but is at -2 due to a surprise attack when he was on his guard. Hurtful is currently getting 12 thresholds, which will be doubled to 24, for 34 raw damage.


Big blows 10m defending with the first melee excellency and spends a willpower, reducing Hurtful's raw damage to 22. Big's soak of 13 reduces that to 9, and Big activates Durability of Oak to reduce that by a further 2. Hurtful then rolls 7 withering damage dice, getting 5 successes. This puts Big into Initiative Crash.


Big has been thrown off guard, but isn't out yet. Attempting to perform an Initiative Shift, Big launches a massive attack. He spends 8m on the excellency, and 1m on Excellent Strike and 1wp for a success. He gets 12 on the roll, +4 successes for a total of 16.


Hurtful can't stop the attack, and it's not worth using Reed to reduce it, so he spend 10m to boost his Defense to 13. This leaves Big with 3 thresholds, for a total raw damage of 18. Hurtful's soak reduces this to 13, and he suffers 7 points of initiative damage. This brings him down to 8 and Big up to 5. Big then activates Peony Blossom to make a single free additional attack because his anima is at Bonfire. Not wishing to take another hit while suffering onslaught penalties, Hurtful uses Seven Shadow Evasion to negate it outright.


ROUND 2


Hurtful- Initiative 8;7hp;7wp;37m


Big-Initiative 5;13hp;6wp;42m


(A note here on Mote Regen. Each character recovers 5 motes per round of combat, recovering it on their action. Big is 5m ahead here despite having spent exactly as many motes as Hurtful, because he got to recover 5 of the motes he used to defend on his turn, while Hurtful used all of his motes after he recovered his)


Hurtful is going to attempt to re-establish surprise. He is at a -3 penalty due to already being in combat, but gets 6 successes anyway. Big rolls to spot him, getting 7. Hurtful is going to use Perfect Shadow Stillness to reroll his result in hopes of getting a better outcome, which it does, landing him with 8 successes. Since the roll succeeded, Shadow Stillness refunds its willpower cost.


Big doesn't have a lot of options, as he cannot see Hurtful. He actives Front-Line Warrior's Stamina, getting 4 successes, which add to his Initiative


ROUND 3


Big-Initiative 9;13hp;7wp;43m


Hurtful-Initiative 8;7hp;7wp;41m


Big still cannot see Hurtful, so he goes into full defense mode. This increases his Defense by 2


Hurtful breaks stealth to launch a Withering attack on Big. He uses the same charm combo as before, but only gets a total of 8 successes.


Big has a DV of 6, but wants to save up motes so he lets the puny attack through. 4+3+7=14 damage dice, reduced to 1 by Big's soak. Hurtful rolls a 10, and gets two successes.


ROUND 4


Hurtful-Initiative 11;7hp;7wp;36m


Big-Initiative 6;13hp;7wp;46m


Hurtful has the upper hand for now, but is feeling a little desperate. He launches a Decisive Strike, amplifying it with his full charm barrage, a willpower and the fact that Big is still at -1 onslaught. He rolls 14 successes. Big's Defense is still at +2 from full defense, so he has an 8 Defense. He spends 10m on the Excellency and 1wp to boost his Defense to 14. Hurtful hits with 0 thresholds, and gets to roll 11 damage dice. Since he used Hungry Tiger, 10s count twice. He inflicts 3 lethal damage, but only manages to fill up Big's -0 health levels. Hurtful then returns to Initiative 3


Big wants to land a withering blow to Crash Hurtful. He spends 8m on the Excellency, 1wp for a success and 1m on Excellent Strike. He gets 13 successes. Hurtful's Defense is 6. He boosts it up to 11 with the excellency and spends a willpower, but can't negate it with Reed without Crashing himself. Big got 1 threshold for a raw damage of 16, 11 after soak. He inflicts 4 initiative damage on Hurtful, Crashing him. Hurtful is now at -1 and Big is at 16. Since his anima is back to Bonfire level, he uses Peony Blossom again. Sadly, seven-shadow evasion is only usable once per scene so Hurtful has to take it. Big uses this to launch a Decisive Attack, enhancing it the same way as his previous attack. He gets a whopping 17 successes on the attack roll. Poor Hurtful boosts his Defense to 12 again, but is still hit. 21 damage dice results in exactly enough wounds to drop Hurtful to Incapacitated, ending the fight for Big


FINAL TALLY


Hurtful-Initiative -1;0hp;5wp;6m


Big-Initiative 4;10hp;3wp;17m

 

[Mei]

As someone else who has the document now, I'd like to point out you only had 10 Charms. You get 13 now at standard character creation.

 

[JayTee]

I'm pretty sure that document was labeled by Holden is being more or less obsolete in the original leak thread, so you might want to take everything written there with a grain of salt. I know I am.

 

[The Dark Wizard]

I'm pretty sure that document was labeled by Holden is being more or less obsolete in the original leak thread, so you might want to take everything written there with a grain of salt. I know I am.

I am as well, but I still like the general direction it is going.

 

[Lord of Chaos]

I assumed that the characters had other non-combat capabilities not listed on the sheet. I also messed up Big's die pool in a few areas and accidentally gave +2 successes for 2 die stunts instead of +1 for the first two turns. Hurtful should have been using Fire and Stone strike to bypass Big's soak, and I'm sure I messed up several other places. Still, this does show the basic style of 3e combat that we've seen

I'm pretty sure that document was labeled by Holden is being more or less obsolete in the original leak thread, so you might want to take everything written there with a grain of salt. I know I am.

Yeah, you can definitely tell that it's still under revision, and a few things in it don't match up with the latest dev reports so it probably is at least one revision out of date. Still better than nothing


An interesting note on the new chargen: You can use three different methods (starting solar, experienced solar and Heroic Mortal who Exalts in-game). Interestingly, the in-game exaltation doesn't end up with the same point spread as the starting solar

 

[The Dark Wizard]

[QUOTE="Lord of Chaos]An interesting note on the new chargen: You can use three different methods (starting solar, experienced solar and Heroic Mortal who Exalts in-game). Interestingly, the in-game exaltation doesn't end up with the same point spread as the starting solar

[/QUOTE]
Lets say everyone goes starting solar, why would you want to be a Heroic Mortal who Exalts in-game? Until you do, you won't be able to compare to the other players and be useless, right?

 

[Grey]

Presumably that's down to ST fiat.


"This game is about established Solars," vs. "This game is about your Exaltation, and what comes after."


Rather than aiming for mechanical optimization.


That combat engine does seem to be on the right track.

 

[Lord of Chaos]

Yeah. For example, I fully intend to run an "exaltation session" with each player before my first 3e game, where they start as heroic mortals and actually play up through their Exaltation (probably less than a full session) in order to establish them as people first, rather than just Exalts.