Ed's Exalted Toolkit

[Andrew02]

Re: Anathema

If you are missing a feature, just drop me a note. Things take time, of course, but I'll at least make certain to get back to you once we handled your request.

I can do the same with Ed's. Pop by his forum, make a suggestion, and then I am done. I was sloppy with my word choice. Anathema does not seem of any MORE (or less, really) use to me than Ed's. As ashen's presented it, the only advantage it has over Ed's is that anybody who knows how to use . . . . java, was it? . . . whatever you all use for it to make it do what you want without having to go to someone else.

ashenphoenix:
Way up in the thread, you spoke about democracy. I'm not sure if I got you right, are you concerned about a lack of democracy in the Anathema development process?


Regards


-Urs, Anathema Public Relations Guy

If I've got him right, he's using it as a selling point for Anathema. It being open (or whatever the right term that means anyone can tinker with the code) means that the project is not just reliant on a single individual to do the coding, and therefore, Anathema will advance far faster than any other utility available.

 

[ashenphoenix]

Re: Anathema

If I've got him right, he's using it as a selling point for Anathema. It being open (or whatever the right term that means anyone can tinker with the code) means that the project is not just reliant on a single individual to do the coding, and therefore, Anathema will advance far faster than any other utility available.

Pretty much, although the Unofficial Exalted Character Generator was open source and it's largely defunct (unless someone wants to prove me wrong).


EdExalted's got a strong guiding voice behind it (ogod, please don't revoke my serial), who has been guiding it quite well, ensuring a very high quality program within a defined scope (which will hopefully creep now that WW's not releasing Hardcovers at a phenomenal rate).


Anathema's got a voice (although he remains unproven), but it's scope is based upon the community's involvement. It could become another UECG, but Java is a more commonly used language than Python (which is apparently easier to learn) and so is more likely to recieve support, and thus catch EdExalted.


It's essentially the same old arguement of Commercial software vs Open-Source. I just have a deep admiration for something the community builds which we all profit from. Personal preference which I guess could be considered spam, imperialist, elitist, colonial and all that. It's vaguely relevant though.

 

[UrsKR]

EdExalted & Anathema

Anathema does not seem of any MORE (or less, really) use to me than Ed's.  As ashen's presented it, the only advantage it has over Ed's is that anybody who knows how to use . . . . java, was it? . . . whatever you all use for it to make it do what you want without having to go to someone else.

Alright, that's wording I can live with - thanks  for clearing it up. If it boils down to a matter of personal preference, I am perfectly fine with it (although, I like y'all to prefer Anathema ).


We hope to provide a better usability than Ed does, but of course, that's a question of PoV again. His strong point are at least two year's worth of features - at this point, we simply can't compete with that.

If I've got him right, he's using it as a selling point for Anathema.

In that case, I got him wrong. Sorry, ashenphoenix (cool avatar, by the way).


Concerning voices and quality, I don't think there's much difference between EdExalted and Anathema. Just that we went down Opensource Road doesn't mean that we have no idea where we're headed, neither does it mean that we're less dedicated to getting there. In fact, my partner  , Vestrial, is quite strict about what to hand out and what to keep a tight leash on. (Which does not mean we don't want any community involvement - we just look twice before accepting proposals.)


Bye


-Urs

 

[Hjallnagel]

:shock:  


Wow, I have more backups than I thought. Tons of artifacts, charms and other stuff from the Compendium. All translated and some a bit modified to suit me best, but it's better than nothing, I guess.


I'll start retranslating as soon as I can spare the time!

 

[MikeOQuinn]

Re: Anathema

Pretty much, although the Unofficial Exalted Character Generator was open source and it's largely defunct (unless someone wants to prove me wrong).

Nah, you got it right. UECG's dead. That one, though, relied heavily upon one person for the compilation and coding, and other folks submitted ideas. Not near as many, as far as I can tell, contributed actual working code to him.


But yeah. It's dead. And shall stay that way, more's the pity. I was actually starting to like the proggie.

 

[psychoph]

Main thing I found as a bother with Eds Exalted was the reports, or character sheets.  The alignment was horrid and it didn't offer the option of adding information later if I just wanteed to print out a character sheet for character generation then modify it by hand.


I haven't played with the program since 2.0 came out, was planning on looking at it soon.


If there is any way that Anathema project can wortk with a java pdf creation package it would definitely be a good thing to have a character sheet that had all the circles for a character up to a max number with the ones used filled in solid.  I have used a php pdf library before ot generate pdfs for a company, never used crystal reports, which is what Ed uses, and I am not sure about java pdf packages and their opensourceness.


Will Anathema support modules, or plugins that others can create and plugin?

 

[MikeOQuinn]

Will Anathema support modules, or plugins that others can create and plugin?

I'd imagine that it will, but then again, I should probably go look at it before saying anything further on the topic.


What I wouldn't give for WW to make a decent chargen package. I'd buy it, if just to give a uniform and clean look to character sheets for my games.

 

[UrsKR]

I haven't played with the program since 2.0 came out, was planning on looking at it soon.

Ed 2.0 has many new Features, but alas, the interface as well as the character sheets have not changed.

If there is any way that Anathema project can wortk with a java pdf creation package it would definitely be a good thing to have a character sheet that had all the circles for a character up to a max number with the ones used filled in solid.

PDF output of characters is supported in Anathema, using Jasper Reports, an open source reporting engine (http://jasperreports.sf.net).


You can chose between a WW-Style charactersheet, which lacks some room for advancement, and one modeled after the sheets created by Voidstate (http://www.voidstate.com)


They are printed with all details filled out and empty circles provided up to rank 5, which is (currently) the maximum rank supported by the program.


If you are familiar with the library and have ideas for improved sheet, feel free to create one and submit it - all the necessary classes are available from our public CVS system in the folder "Development Environment".

Will Anathema support modules, or plugins that others can create and plugin?

I am not sure what differentiates a module from a plugin, but we are willing to create a plugin structure for future versions. (There already was a short-lived attempt by a dedicated user, but the effort has died due to communication problems.)


Right now, we are about to modularize our character type system, so that it will soon be possible to create variants of already existing character types almost on the fly.


Warning: Technobabble ahead


Right now, this still needs (very basic) java skills and knowledge on how to integrate the new files (if you don't want to submit them to us), but we hope to be able to first create a more modular system based on external .jar-files. The final stage of this might see a system where you just jot down a character-type variant in an XML-file and are done with it - if this becomes reality will depend on popular demand, I guess.

What I wouldn't give for WW to make a decent chargen package. I'd buy it, if just to give a uniform and clean look to character sheets for my games.

So would I! Ed once tried to offer his program to White Wolf, but to my knowledge they never replied to him. Shame it is, with full time work and large financial support, his program would have become absolutely fabulous.


As for clean sheets, I'd be glad if you could have a look at the "Voidstate" sheet in Anathema and tell me what you think of it.


Good Night


-Urs

 

[MikeOQuinn]

I'll be sure to take a look. Thanks, Urs!

 

[psychoph]

I will definitely look into it as I have time.  I downloaded it at work to breifly look over it at lunch.  Probably get to it tomorrow or maybe tonight if my Deadlands game gets boring for a spell.


I know pretty limited Java, took classes, did some JSP, but mainly deal with database stuff and php and web based programming, but there is a need at work for improved Java programming skills so maybe i can see abotu taking some time and using this as a "learning tool" and see what i coudl come up with that may help.

 

[psychoph]

Oh yeah I defintiely like the XML idea fo the character info it makes for portability to other programs such as a web interface for the program or a potentail easy way to make a database repository for sites like this or other online sites that people want characters to submit to big time Kudos on that.

 

[psychoph]

I checked out hte print for the pdf file in the void state character sheet it looks very nice.  I still am not fond of the character sheet layout myself but the program works wonderfully.

 

[UrsKR]

Thanks for checking it out, psychoph.


If someone came up with a XML-Transformation (is that the name for such things?) tool, that allowed for Anathema-Characters to be imported to repositories like ECR, that'd be cool...


-Urs

 

[psychoph]

Yeah I think transform sounds right I am not sure if there is a technical term for it.  I could see it being an XML reader.  But the possibilities are certainly there because with PHP5 the XML capabilities have improved.  I am not sure if EXR is running at PHP5 or if it is still at 4 but I know 4 can handle XML it just gets better in 5.


Definitely something to look into for the submissions.

 

[Flagg]

I am not sure if EXR is running at PHP5 or if it is still at 4 but I know 4 can handle XML it just gets better in 5.

It's running PHP4. 5 hasn't yet been stabilized for the distro of linux I'm running.


-S

 

[psychoph]

Then that suggesiton might be a back burner type thing.  The books i have read on PHP 5 and the improvements it seems that it is more that they improved the xml handling or efficiency rather than drastically changed how to use XML so it might be that it coudl be developed now and would see a performance boost when an upgrade to 5 happens.

 

[Flagg]

I could upgrade to 5, but it's listed as unstable, which means it could be buggy. Then again, phpBB is officially unstable too, and I've run into zero problems so far.


-S

 

[psychoph]

HEHE Yeah that all depends on what you want to do, it being your server and all.  I would probably suggest erroring ont eh side of caution cause not doing it could cause hours of work and potentialy kick the site into flux until ti is fixed.


Even stable is a relative term really it just means they haven't found any completely distructive bugs, yet.

 

[psychoph]

Took a look at Anathema code, that is a good deal more complex than I have dealt with when it comes to Java.  


You guys aren't much for documentation in code i see.

 

[UrsKR]

No. We adhere to the adage that documentation in code is a smell for too much obfuscation.


Gotta admit, though,that the code might still seem obfuscated if you are new to the project.


If you're interested in understanding the basics, I've got some pointers stored away for that - I'll see to get them posted tomorrow, if I can dig them up.

 

[Persell]

personally i found the Edexalted toolkits to be immensely useful


the best thing to remember about it though is it's not a char gen program as such - it's designed more for storytellers than players.

 

[psychoph]

personally i found the Edexalted toolkits to be immensely useful
the best thing to remember about it though is it's not a char gen program as such - it's designed more for storytellers than players.

that is ture, but it can be used as both.  Most Character Generators are far more useful to storytellers who have to generate many many NPCs than it is for the player characters that only gerneate one.


I have seen groups of players who all play with laptops on the table and they use the computer to role the dice and keep their character sheets on a program.


I personally can't run that way because it takes me too much time to flip between npcs and screens than it does to find the character sheet in a 3 ring binder.

 

[MikeOQuinn]

personally i found the Edexalted toolkits to be immensely useful
the best thing to remember about it though is it's not a char gen program as such - it's designed more for storytellers than players.

I'm actually looking for something that's useful for storytellers, so this is no bar to my interest.


I downloaded Anathema recently. About to get it running from my jump drive so I can access it anywhere and have my info still. The Series tool is helping me refine the concepts that I'm working on. Haven't even played with character gen yet.

 

[psychoph]

For a storyteller the benefit of Ed's over Anathema at the moment definitely is that Ed;s has 2 years of work on it and covers all the character types before Fiar Folk and anchrothians.  which menas you cna create NPCs as well as PCs.  I assume that it will just take time for Anathema to get all the others going since that is a huge investment in time to do character creation for each book and enter all the charms and spells.

 

[MikeOQuinn]

For a storyteller the benefit of Ed's over Anathema at the moment definitely is that Ed;s has 2 years of work on it and covers all the character types before Fiar Folk and anchrothians.  which menas you cna create NPCs as well as PCs.  I assume that it will just take time for Anathema to get all the others going since that is a huge investment in time to do character creation for each book and enter all the charms and spells.

You make a most excellent point. I shall have to look into Ed's, as well. And soon.