Does the Unconquered Sun Need A Most Divine Therapist?

[Persell]

Inspired by the latest Ink Monkeys postings:


Is it just me, or does anyone else think that the cosmic embodiment of Virtue himself, Sol Invictus, has a lot of symptoms of chronic depression?


I mean, he enshrines a Solar he liked in his old cabin in the Daystar, he tried himself for treason, he blasted the pictures of his own Exalts in a rage (although if he was aiming at Desus, it's understandable), and he doesn't seem to particularly care that the Ursuptation is one of the monorail's favorite memories.


That, and there's his past, which not only includes, well, the entire First Age, but the fact that one of his childhood tests was the Ebon Dragon's Oblivion Molestation Closet.


Please note that this is a thread about him needing therapy. Convincing him that he needs it-or at least, admit to needing it out loud-is a whole 'nother can of beans.


But anyway, does anyone think that Glorious Solar Comfy Couch and a trained psychologist would be a good thing for Sol's sanity and ability to function?

 

[Ledaal Kajiri]

See, the hard part is getting him on it. Maybe you need to get Venus and Gaia and Luna to pose provocatively on the comfy couch as bait...

 

[MorkaisChosen]

See' date=' the hard part is getting him on it. Maybe you need to get Venus and Gaia and Luna to pose provocatively on the comfy couch as bait...[/quote']
But Infinite Temperance...

 

[Andoriol]

Venus, Luna, and Gaia posing provacatively on a couch with Gaia (a still fully intact Primordeal and thus with full bow down God-Bitch powers of Geas) telling the US to get on it with them so they can talk about his issues.


Hoenstly though, it sounds entirely possible, he is a being of infinite awesome, nigh infinite compassion, nigh infinite temperance, nigh infinite conviction, nigh infinite valor... but I don't see a hint of always cheerful or nigh infinite mental stability in there...

 

[chalicier]

Hoenstly though, it sounds entirely possible, he is a being of infinite awesome, nigh infinite compassion, nigh infinite temperance, nigh infinite conviction, nigh infinite valor... but I don't see a hint of always cheerful or nigh infinite mental stability in there...

I generally consider the UCS to be completely but not irrevocably batshit crazy. What little sanity he may appear to have is merely an illusion produced by the interaction of human minds with that much awesome.

 

[MorkaisChosen]

Having read all the stuff, he's having serious confidence issues; bear in mind that his Solars have basically gone nuts and ruined most of the world, so he was probably thinking "Oh Me, what have I done?" The Usurpation would have added angst- "Well, it's kinda fixed, but they've locked my dudes away"- and now they're back, and he's worried it'll all kick off again. Cue major self-doubt, trying himself for Crimes Against Creation (taking responsibility for everything the Solars did), and going off to do what he's doing.

 

[wordman]

The thing is, he's the Unconquered Sun. Any sort of "admitting you have a problem" is basically the same as admitting defeat, which he cannot do. Not "does not do" but "cannot do".

 

[Ledaal Kajiri]

Which is why you not only have to get him to seek help, but get him to think it's his own idea, AND that doing so isn't admitting or being defeated. Social Fu, it's what's for dinner.

 

[MorkaisChosen]

He basically needs to conquer himself, and it's the players' job to persuade him to do it...

 

[Andoriol]

What about something like: "You're at war with your own self-doubt! At war with your own power and issues! You did not face the Primordeals alone, let us help you conquer this foe as well! Let us help you end this internal battle now, so that you may conquer the failings and ailments of the world today and not later!"

 

[MorkaisChosen]

Plus EPIC SOCIAL CHARMS plus REPEATING IT every day for a YEAR to wear down his Willpower plus PERFECT DEFENCES to stop you getting killed if he flips out...

 

[Andoriol]

Those are some very good contingencies (esspecially the Perfect Defenses, we'd need a lot of those, and prefferably the backing of the maidens, Luna, and Gaia just in case)


But why would he kill me for saying he's in a battle, and then asking if I can help him finish it so we can all save the world...?


No, seriously, that's kinda fucked in the head and you should totally call him on it if he does it

 

[Ledaal Kajiri]

Those are some very good contingencies (esspecially the Perfect Defenses, we'd need a lot of those, and prefferably the backing of the maidens, Luna, and Gaia just in case)
But why would he kill me for saying he's in a battle, and then asking if I can help him finish it so we can all save the world...?


No, seriously, that's kinda fucked in the head and you should totally call him on it if he does it

It's the perfect social defenses you need. When he tries to tell you he doesn't need your help.

 

[Andoriol]

Crap! You're right! We need a perfect social defense... and a lot of motes for when he repeats himself...


...


Dang... how many dice are we going to need to throw at this to even get past his MDV? If we don't throw a lot of dice at it every single time, he's just going to ignore us so hard we explode... maybe litterally.

 

[MorkaisChosen]

It's almost as if we'd need to pull an epic plotline involving gathering the subject of pretty much all his Intimacies to persuade him together or something.


Actually, here's an idea- the Daystar appears to be a sentient being, from some of the origin stuff, so maybe we just need to persuade it to help. What could be a better way to cheer up a depressed Incarna than having his faithful pet and companion coming up, wagging its tail and licking him in the face?

 

[Andoriol]

Ah-ha! Now that's the kind of thinking we're looking for in the Solar Deliberative son!


Though the image of a giant blazing ball of death attempting to hug Sol Invictus is strangely disturbing and amusing at the same time... but yeah, it's almost a given that it'd take an epic quest of epic proportions (even by Exalted standards) to actually get Sol Invictus to get some frackin' therapy...

 

[Jukashi]

Wait, I've got it!


I just need a giant dragon disguise that is darker than darkness, some people to operate it with me, an artifact to change my voice, a green backdrop, and some sort of recording device.


"The Sun will never even recognize his personal problems, let alone resolve them - just as planned, nyarh harh harh."

 

[Andoriol]

Wait, I've got it!
I just need a giant dragon disguise that is darker than darkness, some people to operate it with me, an artifact to change my voice, a green backdrop, and some sort of recording device.


"The Sun will never even recognize his personal problems, let alone resolve them - just as planned, nyarh harh harh."

Sweet~! I like this plan! It's one I can stay the hell away from when the ED finds out about it!


And you'll need a way to keep Mr. Shiney from perfectly realizing your full of shit... but overall, very good plan, ingenius as hell itself I might say

 

[Persell]

But...the Games are his therapy. He he didn't play them knowing that they would keep him fully occupied, he would have gone crazy because of his perfect virtues. His greatest strength is his greatest weakness.

 

[MorkaisChosen]

Wait, I've got it!
I just need a giant dragon disguise that is darker than darkness, some people to operate it with me, an artifact to change my voice, a green backdrop, and some sort of recording device.


"The Sun will never even recognize his personal problems, let alone resolve them - just as planned, nyarh harh harh."

That, too, is rather good... Just make sure you take that Charm (I think Vile Anathema Shroud's a prerequisite) that makes you sound EVIL. Something like "Megalomaniac Oration Strategy", isn't it? :lol:

 

[brilliantlight]

Having read all the stuff, he's having serious confidence issues; bear in mind that his Solars have basically gone nuts and ruined most of the world, so he was probably thinking "Oh Me, what have I done?" The Usurpation would have added angst- "Well, it's kinda fixed, but they've locked my dudes away"- and now they're back, and he's worried it'll all kick off again. Cue major self-doubt, trying himself for Crimes Against Creation (taking responsibility for everything the Solars did), and going off to do what he's doing.

I don't know about you but I would be really depressed if I were him for the reasons you meantioned!

 

[Virjigorm]

I've always liked the idea that the Games are more than anyone realizes. What if the Incarnae cannot stop playing the games because of who else is playing with them. I know beings have witnessed the games and seen dreamstones, but the mind-screw that comes with that experience can explain the viewers not grasping fully the meaning of what they see. Here is my take...


During the last days of the Primordial War, the armies of the Gods stormed Yu-Shan while the US gained the advantage in the Games of Divinity. When the City was secure, the Jade Pleasure Dome was the only part of the City the Exalted could not enter. The Incarnae got inside because the US was already there and let them in. When they got there, there were still a couple Primordials sitting at the table. Because of the Geas, the gods could not attack, but because of the Exalted outside, these Primordials could not leave safely. The crafty Titans chose instead to invite the Incarnae to play and wagered their surrender against their freedom on the outcome. Never having played, but trusting the perfection of their leader, the Incarnae agreed and sat down to finish the war. At the beginning, it was easy for the gods to keep ahead in the games, and sometimes, a few Incarnae would sit out a round or two to take care of business. This worked well for a while and kept the Primordials occupied, but the game dragged on and on for centuries. Over time, the game got more and more challenging for the Incarnae, demanding more of their time. Now, the only hope for their victory is to keep the US playing at all times, since defeat is not possible for Him. Victory, however, may not be possible either, and so they keep playing. Everyone believes the Incarnae to be crippled by addiction, but in truth it is desperation and fatigue that drain them and a secret war for the salvation of all existence that occupies every moment of their time.


May not appeal to anyone else, but this is what I'm using for my end-game story once the characters hit 8+ Essence. It just feels better for me if the Guarding Star really is as perfect as everyone says and only the perceptions of others are flawed. The only hole I see in the scenario is this; why haven't the Incarnae told anyone the truth about the Games. Best as I can figure, the only good reason would be that making it public would have dire consequences. I still haven't come up with a good idea for what those consequences may be.


If anyone has ideas to that effect, I'd like to hear them.

 

[Kyeudo]

My personal take on the Games is that the Unconquered Sun isn't addicted to the Games, but that he chooses to play. He is not human, his mindset is different. From his perspective, not stepping in to set the world right is the best thing he can do for his Chosen.


They need challenges to overcome, because that's the sort of thing he needs to do. He's already overcome everything and it leaves him terribly bored with everything but the games, the last true challenge left for him. If he solved all the Solar's problems, they too would have nothing to challenge them and the First Age would happen all over again, with its excesses and bored Solars doing stuff just for kicks. So he holds himself back and plays, knowing that his Chosen will rise to meet the challenge. He worries about what will happen afterward, when the Solars have triumphed once more, but for now he'll cross that bridge when he comes to it.

 

[cyl]

Hmmm that's a point, but he didn't actually move a finger when Creation was struck with the Balorian Crusade and the Contagion...


I mean I can get the whole "my chosen were overcome with self sufficiency and they became arrogant so I'm going to let the world be screwed in every possible way so when they rise again they'll have stuff to do and maybe... maybe that'll teach them a lesson" but there are several loopholes in this point of view:


- he probably knows about the Curse (if Lytek knows, he must have at least some knowledge of it...)


- he let Creation be and it could have been destroyed if it was not for the Empress


- he never tried to set the solars free


I mean ok, he probably wanted the solars to be "punished for their sins" (which is exactly what happened to them) but locking the majority of them away from Creation while making the world a shittier place in order to when they come back give them stuff to do... that's just illogical... even for a god.


I really don't understand his distant behavior, and the laisser aller attitude because he screwed heaven and Creation both not taking any action whatsoever since the depth of time... I think the last thing he actually did was to put the Kukla to sleep.


I don't know if he's detached or if he cares, all I know is he does not care about Man... because he would not have put them through all of the two millenias and misery... I think he's just escaping his sad reality... his chosen have been corrupted and he can't do a damn thing about it.

 

[Jimborg]

Hmmm that's a point, but he didn't actually move a finger when Creation was struck with the Balorian Crusade and the Contagion...

(Emphasis mine)
Thats what gets me: the Balorian Crusade is probably THE textbook example of "things the UCS is supposed to defend against". I mean, that was one of the major rationales for the Sun's creation in the first place. To remain apathetic in the face of that... is really disturbing.


Of course, defending against the Balorian Crusade would've exposed him to the original strain of the Great Contagion, but given that it can be cured by Solar magic, TUCS would probably have no problem dealing with it.