Does Rpnation lack variety?

[Iallcsz]

...Do you think RPN admins and mods have the power to enforce what settings are used? It's user generated content.
It is content generated by users.


The site staff don't tell people what settings to employ.


You propose having new settings so roleplayers have more options - they literally have any option they can think of. Nowhere on RPN is a specific setting enforced.


The only way for more original or divergent settings to appear is for someone to be producing them.


Not everyone has the skill for that. The user base is creating settings according to their level of skill and experience.

Really Grey? When have I said the Admins MUST enforce the settings.


I said that the whole community should help improve this issue not the administrators. Which includes normal roleplays.

 

[Grey]

How do you intend for the new settings to propagate? You want more settings - so how do we make that happen? Are you asking that members contribute new settings for use?


That is literally 80% of what I do here. I write entire new settings for people to use, I teach people to write settings, and I offer advice to people building settings. This problem is being slowly addressed, but we can't make people use the resources they're being offered.

 

[Mordecai]

I am not much into arguing myself, but... if people are creating these redundant roleplays, doesn't that mean they're enjoying them? If they wanted something different, wouldn't they create something different or attempt to create something different?

 

[Iallcsz]

I'm not lying, I am struggling to grasp your point.
How do you intend for the new settings to propagate? You want more settings - so how do we make that happen? Are you asking that members contribute new settings for use?


That is literally 80% of what I do here. I write entire new settings for people to use, I teach people to write settings, and I offer advice to people building settings. This problem is being slowly addressed, but we can't make people use the resources they're being offered.

Yes, that was my point overall.


Perhaps so, but that problem is caused by a lack of incentive to have new settings overall. The admins/moderators don't have to force anything. But provide an incentive, for example ( This is just an example ) they could add throphy points or a mention on the newsletter for having a diverse roleplay.

 

[Kagura]

Your point? Rpnation is open to criticism, because criticism helps improve this site overall. Critizing Rpnation helps shows its flaws so that adminstrators, moderations, fellows, and normal roleplays can help improve this. You're a administrator for this site so isn't part of your responsiblity to make sure Rpnation can improve?

My point is that you were saying it does not just apply to RpNation but you addressed the problem directly to Rpnation - so it seemed like only a problem you are willing to argue here.


Also what Grey said ^

Secondly for context, this quotation is from the second page of the conversation. It was a response to Dusky after she said this:

Your posts don't exist in a vacuum.


If you state something like you like pie in one post and then 5 posts later say you don't (as an example), I'm going to point out that you're doing so

But if the roleplay centers around the school setting it is one. For example Naruto early on takes place in a school but later on they transition on from it.

Okay - so lets put Naruto into a roleplaying context, let's say it starts on the concept of a ninja school with a pseudo -magic off shoot, to put it in simplest terms. They take 5 chapters or so to get out of school and start plot (I'm guessing), so i'm gonna say that''s 5 pages of roleplay. From this very basic outline you implied that you would put it in a 'school' section despite things happening at a later time in the roleplay.


My point was simply that you couldn't really judge a roleplay on just it's overview.

Secondly, I said predominant elements detrimine the category of a roleplay. I did not say school settings are bad in anyway, what is the issue is that a spin nor new setting is added.

I didn't say you did, I was simply using school roleplays as an example because it was your biggest quotient and the most I knew about.

If the roleplay did have a spin and included different elements then it would be fresh. So yes there's more to a roleplay than just their categories, but the majority of roleplays do not included which is the issue in the first place. Which I have been repeating over and over again when people bring this up.

then I ask you to look at all the roleplays you simply marked off as school from the start?


Just because a role play is called an academy/school role play, doesn't mean that is the only thing going for it, there are elements introduced after the first page.

I'll stress this one more time. Provide a context, before going off.

You weren't hypocritical until this notion, considering in context those quotes weren't even directed at you, I was calling everyone I quoted there hypocritical - not you.

And your point? That's why I proposed having new settings so that roleplayers have more opitions. But the majority of roleplays just repeat themselves instead of doing the former.

My point was that you admitted yourself there were only so many options, so there's only so much variety.


While I agree that some tropes may be overused, if these new settings were introduced how long would it be until their overused? Roleplayers have the options they just choose what they like.

 

[Kagura]

Critizing Rpnation helps shows its flaws so that adminstrators, moderations, fellows, and normal roleplays can help improve this. You're a administrator for this site so isn't part of your responsiblity to make sure Rpnation can improve?

Really Grey? When have I said the Admins MUST enforce the settings.

You heavily implied it, directing it at an administrator such as myself.


Also, I stress again that this conversation will be civil or won't be a conversation at all.

 

[Grey]

We do have roleplay of the month, which I believe is chosen based on merits like originality.


I mentioned that I tried to incentivize it, too - see? Points for originality there. But responses were too thin on the ground to work with, and I don't have the time to trawl through every RP to find the worthies.


Seriously? This is a state of affairs we can do little about but accept, and very slowly make progress by being good examples. You're not happy with the unoriginal fantasy settings? Cool - I posted one I think is pretty original recently so maybe you'd rather try that and not worry about the rest, thus ensuring there's an active, original RP that people might see and take as an inspiration?

 

[Atom]

In my personal opinion.


RPN is in no way bent towards a variety. It is a nice thing to have and all but it is not a forced thing.


My second opinion is that RPN has plenty if variety, it just does not appeal to you.


And to rectify this issue, to you I suggest this.


Instead of discussing it or arguing about it, take an active role in creation. Many members like Grey do their best to create new settings and add variety. Whilst some members complain rather than do anything about it.


You can't see the forest because of the trees, widen your gaze. I personally suggest you widen it considerably.

 

[Iallcsz]

My point is that you were saying it does not just apply to RpNation but you addressed the problem directly to Rpnation - so it seemed like only a problem you are willing to argue here.
Also what Grey said ^


Your posts don't exist in a vacuum.


If you state something like you like pie in one post and then 5 posts later say you don't (as an example), I'm going to point out that you're doing so


Okay - so lets put Naruto into a roleplaying context, let's say it starts on the concept of a ninja school with a pseudo -magic off shoot, to put it in simplest terms. They take 5 chapters or so to get out of school and start plot (I'm guessing), so i'm gonna say that''s 5 pages of roleplay. From this very basic outline you implied that you would put it in a 'school' section despite things happening at a later time in the roleplay.


My point was simply that you couldn't really judge a roleplay on just it's overview.


I didn't say you did, I was simply using school roleplays as an example because it was your biggest quotient and the most I knew about.


then I ask you to look at all the roleplays you simply marked off as school from the start?


Just because a role play is called an academy/school role play, doesn't mean that is the only thing going for it, there are elements introduced after the first page.


You weren't hypocritical until this notion, considering in context those quotes weren't even directed at you, I was calling everyone I quoted there hypocritical - not you.


My point was that you admitted yourself there were only so many options, so there's only so much variety.


While I agree that some tropes may be overused, if these new settings were introduced how long would it be until their overused? Roleplayers have the options they just choose what they like.

1. Okay? I don't see how this a bad thing. Criticism would still help this site overall, so I don't see an issue here.


2. Context, Context, Context, Context it's important when you quote someone. I didn't contradict myself by stating what situation I was in before.


3. I said I have been into some of the roleplays in the list. I did not just read the overview but also looked through some of the IC and sign-ups.


4.


"Firstly, I would mainly suggest trying to mix setttings and take various aspects from them.


If I try to mix settings, I better not include an Academy or School anywhere in my role play, less I be marked as an average 'school' roleplay. I know the argument stands."





You implied that I was regarding school roleplays as average, when I have not.


5. So what if we do run out of new settings after we exhausted them. The point is that there is still much more room to improve on.


 
One at a time, i'm debating like five people when i'm one person.


 

You heavily implied it, directing it at an administrator such as myself.
Also, I stress again that this conversation will be civil or won't be a conversation at all.

How is disrespectful by saying an adminstrator should help improve this site?

 

[Dusky]

Well considering you changed the poll from "Is RPN lacking variety" to "Does it have enough variety?" a couple days ago, some of those "No"s might be rather confused.

 

[Iallcsz]

We do have roleplay of the month, which I believe is chosen based on merits like originality.
I mentioned that I tried to incentivize it, too - see? Points for originality there. But responses were too thin on the ground to work with, and I don't have the time to trawl through every RP to find the worthies.


Seriously? This is a state of affairs we can do little about but accept, and very slowly make progress by being good examples. You're not happy with the unoriginal fantasy settings? Cool - I posted one I think is pretty original recently so maybe you'd rather try that and not worry about the rest, thus ensuring there's an active, original RP that people might see and take as an inspiration?

Why not add throphy points also? That's adding another incentive.


That's a good start but there is more room to improve it.


Ignoring the problem doesn't not solve it and you're directing the issue towards me again. I'm only one person.

 

[Iallcsz]

Well considering you change the poll from "Is RPN lacking variety" to "Does it have enough variety?" a couple days ago, some of those "No"s might be rather confused.

Definition of Lacking: deficient or inadequate.


Definition of Enough: as much or as many as required.


By saying no that means:


The variety of rpnation is inadequate.

 

[Dusky]

Yes - So when you asked "Is RPN lacking variety?" I was quick to say "no," RPN's variety is not "deficient or inadequate." When I noticed you changed it, my "no" vote meant something entirely different - It went from saying RPN is not lacking variety to saying that it does not have enough variety. Of course I changed it as soon as I saw, but that was a deceitful move on your part.

 

[Dusky]

Consider also the difference between a poll, which requires no thought or effort, and a debate, which I have put several thousand words of thought and effort into thus far.

 

[Iallcsz]

Consider also the difference between a poll, which requires no thought or effort, and a debate, which I have put several thousand words of thought and effort into thus far.

People can read the discussion to form an opinion of it. The poll isn't irrelevant.

 

[Dusky]

Of course it's not irrelevant, but it has less significance than the actual content - and really, how many of the poll-takers do you think actually read these ten pages of debate?


EDIT: Although, statistically speaking, it is irrelevant. Just considering numbers, any difference between answers is just not relevant until you get to like... a couple hundred votes, I think? I don't want to do that math right now.

 

[Iallcsz]

Yes - So when you asked "Is RPN lacking variety?" I was quick to say "no," RPN's variety is not "deficient or inadequate." When I noticed you changed it, my "no" vote meant something entirely different - It went from saying RPN is not lacking variety to saying that it does not have enough variety. Of course I changed it as soon as I saw, but that was a deceitful move on your part.

How is it deceitful? You can change your vote anyways.

 

[Grey]

You want to engage in an Appeal to Numbers, there? Because you don't strike me as the type, and if you want to use statistics 35 is a non-significant sample size with a membership this vast, and this isn't a peer-reviewed journal for chrissakes'.


In order to award trophy points, we'd then have to appoint someone to trawl the RPs and hand out points to the ones that meet that person's standards for originality.


Most of the reason I get into arguments like this across the site is a desire to see people improve (out of a philosophical conviction that such a thing is, generally, to the good) - but a lot of people don't want to improve. They're happy where they are. They don't treat roleplaying as something necessitating improvement.


No one is here to cater exclusively to any one member, and we sub-divide into smaller cliques with shared interests, convergent experience levels, and common preferences.


You have to accept the site will probably never be a shining beacon of variety because the default state of mankind is mediocrity, but there is variety when you look in the right places.

 

[Dusky]

Deceitful, because how many people are going to check their answer after they've made it? They aren't all following the thread. I don't believe your intelligence is lacking, so I'm sure you know better, whether you admit it or not.

 

[Kagura]

1. Okay? I don't see how this a bad thing. Criticism would still help this site overall, so I don't see an issue here.
2. Context, Context, Context, Context it's important when you quote someone. I didn't contradict myself by stating what situation I was in before.


3. I said I have been into some of the roleplays in the list. I did not just read the overview but also looked through some of the IC and sign-ups.


4.


"Firstly, I would mainly suggest trying to mix setttings and take various aspects from them.


If I try to mix settings, I better not include an Academy or School anywhere in my role play, less I be marked as an average 'school' roleplay. I know the argument stands."





You implied that I was regarding school roleplays as average, when I have not.


5. So what if we do run out of new settings after we exhausted them. The point is that there is still much more room to improve on.

1.) It's a bad thing because you're making it personal to the RpNation - as in, you seem to be just attacking our site.


2.) As I said it was just an example. The fact you were saying it didn't apply to just RpNation and then later saying it was a problem to rpnation is opposite ends of the spectrum. I understand the context, but as you stated ^ - you are making this personal to RpNation so I was right in my outlook?


3.) How far did you get into the roleplays? the character sheets? did you stop at the same point for every one of them?


I only ask because there are instance where at least I have written a character sheet but the way I played that charcter was very different from what the gm imagine. Not in a terrible way but the fact that a character sheet can only encompass so much. Two words - character growth.


4.) That was not implied towards you, I was addressing the thread as a whole, but i could see how it looked that way in context.

How is disrespectful by saying an adminstrator should help improve this site?

Those were two separate points.


Just a further clarification for the numbers game:


only 37 % of the people who have read this thread voted

 

[Iallcsz]

You want to engage in an Appeal to Numbers, there? Because you don't strike me as the type, and if you want to use statistics 35 is a non-significant sample size with a membership this vast, and this isn't a peer-reviewed journal for chrissakes'.
In order to award trophy points, we'd then have to appoint someone to trawl the RPs and hand out points to the ones that meet that person's standards for originality.


Most of the reason I get into arguments like this across the site is a desire to see people improve (out of a philosophical conviction that such a thing is, generally, to the good) - but a lot of people don't want to improve. They're happy where they are. They don't treat roleplaying as something necessitating improvement.


No one is here to cater exclusively to any one member, and we sub-divide into smaller cliques with shared interests, convergent experience levels, and common preferences.


You have to accept the site will probably never be a shining beacon of variety because the default state of mankind is mediocrity, but there is variety when you look in the right places.

The poll isn't irrelevant under the asuumpition people have read the debate and reached a conclusion which is reflected by the vote. The sample size is people who have read it.


Give me a second, more alerts.

 

[Dusky]

That's a HELL of an assumption to prove.


Any argument's premise has to be unarguably true. Philosophy 101, folks.

 

[Grey]

I haven't voted; I consider the poll inadequate. Any quantitative study requires you to ask the right questions. 'Enough' is nebulous.


I am satisfied with the current level of variety, but would not oppose more. I am highly discerning in which RPs I will join.

 

[Grey]

Guys - may I suggest the semantic argument is counter-productive at best, passive-aggressively intellect-measuring at worst?


I can spew more terminology than either of you has the education to know, and we'll still be going nowhere.

 

[Kagura]

The natives are having a meltdown @Grey