Does Rpnation lack variety?

[Mitheral]

While difficult, it IS possible to make a decent RP out of a Utopia. I can think of example seeds for such an RP. However, in all fairness, most have their origins in end of the old civilization. And the drama is typical less from interpersonal conflicts and more from the environment. But then Utopia is a matter of perception.

 

[Bone2pick]

tl;dr there is no variety because people aren't used to deep worldbuilding.

I'm not sure what you mean so I'll ask for clarification. Are you suggesting it's mostly experience over preference?

 

[Dusky]

Dusky would like to note that what is a utopia to one is a dystopia to another.


That aside - if you're looking for dystopias, mightn't you have more luck in Realistic? Or Sci-Fi? Trying to shoehorn fantasy elements into such a plot sounds overly busy, though not inconceivable. I do believe Elle Joyner has a dystopian RP planned, or accepting, or something... wasn't quite my cuppa tea.


Also, I don't believe the abundance of a certain kind of story or setting "restricts" variety in the slightest. We're all perfectly able to make any RP we want. As Alexandra mention, RPN and role-playing in general is all about user-generated content. The site itself facilitates this. You may notice that we don't have any "site-official" RPs or anything... Those are really quite uncommon. So if you want to lower the ratio of school RPs to everything-else RPs, then there are three things you need to do. 1. Not make speculative threads about whether or not RPN has variety. 2. Educate others on how to go about coming up with and executing fresh ideas. (A la Grey's So You Want to Write... series) 3. Create role-plays that have a fresh and unique premise yourself.


Fourthly, if you're counting - I think you may be confusing setting and premise. Utopias and dystopias are premises - societal structures, mostly. They're part of a setting, but certainly not a setting unto themselves. You've got Hunger Games' Panem and you've got Bioshock Infinite's Columbia - no, not that Columbia. Both dystopias, both wildly different.


And I mean, if you asked me, dystopias are wildly popular and seem like just another tired old thing. As I don't actively seek them out I can't give you a whole lot of RPN examples, but in fiction in general? Hunger Games. The Giver and its sister books Gathering Blue and Gossamer. Divergent. Maze Runner. Every non-romantic YA novel in the past five years ever. Hell, there are elements of dystopia in Harry Potter, though this is probably more accurately attributed to the maturing of the writer's professionalism, the series' audience, and the protagonist's worldview. Now, all of those figure pretty prominently in the Fandom sections, of course.


Furthermore - I'm gonna run out of transitional phrases if I go on much longer, I think - as Grey mentioned - and this builds on what I said earlier about the abundance not restricting variety - these RPs are here, and available to you. A great way to find them is word of mouth. Rather than peruse a few pages in Fantasy and Interest Checks, try getting to know all of us, asking people if they know of any good, unique RPs. Chances are they will. As for the Academy RPs? Leave them be. People want them and enjoy them and they aren't interfering with anyone's ability to be in something more detailed. (The Detailed tags are also good to peruse, for what you're looking for, as they indicate an RP with significant lore, character involvement, etc.)


Personally, I'm not fond of the idea that my own Fantasy RP could be relegated into any of your categories and then dismissed as contributing nothing of value to the site. It's offensive to the hours I've put into it, and I can guarantee you a huge portion of RPN's content-generators would feel much the same about your assessments. NO roleplay can be glanced at, or even perused, and then dismissed so easily.


So I'm gonna iterate those three things I mentioned earlier, as what you're trying to do here seems to be "reduce the amount of overdone roleplays." The three things you need to do:


1. Not make speculative threads about whether or not RPN has variety.


2. Educate others on how to go about coming up with and executing fresh ideas.


3. Create role-plays that have a fresh and unique premise yourself.


Meanwhile, there are certainly things available for you to join if you're willing to reach out to the community and expand your horizons a bit.

 

[Bone2pick]

Personally, I'm not fond of the idea that my own Fantasy RP could be relegated into any of your categories and then dismissed as contributing nothing of value to the site. It's offensive to the hours I've put into it, and I can guarantee you a huge portion of RPN's content-generators would feel much the same about your assessments. NO roleplay can be glanced at, or even perused, and then dismissed so easily.

This is exactly the reason I came into this thread. The thought of one of my future RPs being lumped into "magic" (or some other nonsense category) and not adding to RPN's variety...Well, that just doesn't work for me.

 

[Iallcsz]

This is exactly the reason I came into this thread. The thought of one of my future RPs being lumped into "magic" (or some other nonsense category) and not adding to RPN's variety...Well, that just doesn't work for me.

Not really. I spent time reading all of their overviews before placing them into a category. What I was assessing was the setting the roleplay took place. My assessment isn't nonsense, I just didn't look at the title and placed them there. I was even part of some the roleplays on the list. What we're discussing is the setting right now.

 

[Grey]

While difficult, it IS possible to make a decent RP out of a Utopia. I can think of example seeds for such an RP. However, in all fairness, most have their origins in end of the old civilization. And the drama is typical less from interpersonal conflicts and more from the environment. But then Utopia is a matter of perception.

Fair point, Mith. I suppose I meant 'making a compelling dramatic arc from a utopia is incredibly challenging.'


And, meaning no offense, I am profoundly skeptical of most of our membership's ability to work at that level.

What does Utopia lack that prevents from being a setting? Not every Rp has to be dramatic to satisfy roleplayers .
I just used Brave New World as an example of Disatopia settings. It's still a great setting that isn't used much in general.

... With this, I am struck with the clear revelation I'm wasting my time. So are several other members I respect.


Let's have this conversation again in a few years.

 

[Iallcsz]

Fair point, Mith. I suppose I meant 'making a compelling dramatic arc from a utopia is incredibly challenging.;
And, meaning no offense, I am profoundly skeptical of most of our membership's ability to work at that level.


... With this, I am struck with the clear revelation I'm wasting my time. So are several other members I respect.


Let's have this conversation again in a few years.

Yes, personally attacking a person you barely know by saying i'm a waste of time.


Do you want some virtual brownie points along with that?

 

[Dusky]

-sigh-

 

[Iallcsz]

I also have zero respect for someone who goes for an Ad Homiem attack. Well look the feeling is mutal, you can leave.

 

[Grey]

You, young Iallcsz, are not a waste of time. There's barely a human on the planet who is, and not a damned one at your age.


This argument, however, is - because right now you lack of the relevant perspective and experience to engage adequately. This is no fault of yours, mind. I'm serious about having this conversation again in a few years. It's a failing on my part borne of years in academia.


Other members with more patience than I, and a greater capacity to tailor their arguments to divergent mindsets, will surely provide you better guidance (Bone, Dusk, and Mith especially) right now.

 

[Iallcsz]

@Dusky


I'm leaving this conversation if you're going to tell I can't make threads or that i'm forcing roleplayers by discussing this.


@Everyone Else


The conversation has ended for me. Feel free to discuss it, if you want. I believe I clarfied what I said despite the objections.


Bye.

 

[Blumenkranz]

I'm not sure what you mean so I'll ask for clarification. Are you suggesting it's mostly experience over preference?

I am just suggesting that people should think and write their settings before submitting the post form. Really, it's as simple as that. Many of these problems would be solved if people took some time to describe the setting.


Fleshing out the setting to a certain degree is not a matter of preference, it is necessary for the correct development of a roleplay. When your setting is too vague the rest of the players will probably feel confused at one point or another of the adventure since not every GM has the same policies for players making up new rules. The lack of information can stagnate a roleplay simply because players don't know if they should post about something they don't know or simply wait for the GM to log in, which in some cases can take a long time.


But player confusion is not what makes a setting unoriginal. What makes a setting unoriginal is the lack of planification. If you simply post a small introduction for your roleplay and then forget about worldbuilding, you will miss out all the possibilities. Once you start writing about your setting, you will find a bunch of gateways to incorporate your personal touch to the roleplay, which you could have probably never noticed if you didn't bother thinking deeply about it.


I am not saying you should make some convoluted overarching plot and load your games with twists. Some people like their settings simple and straightforward - and yes, THIS is actually a matter of personal preference -, but if you have noticed two out of the three oldest now active fantasy academy roleplays have some extensive lore pages. Congratulations, you did it! Your roleplay has now become less of a generic setting. They each have some story to call their own, they are not just a fantasy academy roleplay, they are those fantasy academy roleplays. None of those academies' backstories are complicated, but they are there and they make them stand out, simply because they have one.


I have seen some of these academies described with oneliners and paragraphs with an introduction so generic ("you got a card blah blah you are invited to this wizard academy!") they have even less content than a oneliner in them. What's worse is that it's not a rare occurrence. As expected, these games die in a week, and this applies to pretty much every game that hasn't bothered writing about the setting in the least.


So, what's the moral of the story here? Many roleplays feel generic because they are not settings, they are tropes. A trope isn't going to differentiate itself from another equal trope, simply because they are the same thing and unless you start writing your own content they will never cease to be the same.


Again, as simple as you want it to be, WORLDBUILDING. Take your time to make a good Lore/Maps page and new ideas that could make your roleplay more unique will simply pop up in your head. Really, it's no rocket science; everybody that is willing to think for a few hours could do it, and if every GM spent some time thinking about their next roleplay, I bet the quantity of academy roleplays would decrease because many people could realize worldbuilding is actually very fun. Even if it didn't lower the quality, it would surely increase the quality, and each academy setting could become a world of its own.

 

[Ixacise]

While the dude's categories might have been not fully explained and a bit silly. He had a valid point in there being a bunch of same premise games that don't have a lot of distinguishable features.


However said seems to have been lost in in the salt and general passive agressive posts that followed. Like I know people don't want to have their fun labeled as badwrong but you guys got worked up over very little

 

[Dusky]

The irony, Ixacise, is that everyone here agreed on that point, very vocally. I think something got lost in defensiveness on all sides, and it turned into something of a circular debate. I was certainly more biting than I needed to be, at points. (Sorry Lally!!)

 

[Mitheral]

Well, I certainly have no argument against the issue of age on this site. It is by far the worst site I have ever been with for that problem. (This is NOT to say the site is bad. Only that the age and writer maturity is lacking. Of course, all I need are a handful of good writers.)


To illustrate my point, I have posted in the interest checks - repeatedly - for writing partners who are willing to build the setting and plot ... rather than have to do so myself all the time - with instructions to check my profile for a more complete listing of my preferences and to PM me. 99% of the time what I get get is a response post in the thread asking, "What do you have in mind?" or "I'm interested."


I just have to facepalm and wonder if the person actually read my post. I find that most are too lazy to actually create anything. I find it very rare for any member under the age of 20 to have developed that level of maturity - to actually create a complex RP setting. Most of those are too busy with school (and should be).


None of this really responds to the initial question - the variety of RP's.


The answer is an emphatic yes. RpN lacks variety. And this is because so many of the RP's are either fandoms or of the one liner instant gratification variety. Fandoms? I can tolerate those. But I really wish we could chase all the one liner crap away. RP's are for people who WRITE. One liners can go to chat rooms and play.


Variety demands originality.

 

[Bone2pick]

Fleshing out the setting to a certain degree is not a matter of preference, it is necessary for the correct development of a roleplay.

"Necessary" & "correct" are interesting words for a creative/recreational pursuit. Also "certain degree" seems a little vague for such a prescriptive sentence. Without wanting to come off as antagonistic, I would like to hear just how much fleshing out of a setting is the correct amount?

 

[Grey]

If I might offer my two cents on that (though I am looking forward to hearing from Blume on this), I think the necessary amount is:


A clear sense of place and time.


A clear picture of the culture.


A concrete place for the PCs to fit in (though being oucast/on the fringe/etc counts as a concrete place).


Other actors within the setting, such as factions or organizations with goals and motives.


Internal consistency (especially if there's magic or something like it).


But I'd also suggest those are guidelines, since you can focus on a few of them and that can be enough, assuming players are willing to fill in the blanks. I've got an example somewhere of a game I put together where I just expressed the feel of the setting, a few locations, and explicitly asked the players to use that to add to the setting around their character.


I'm also one of those people who believes creative pursuits are not exempt from rules, guidelines, analysis, and improvement, of course.

While the dude's categories might have been not fully explained and a bit silly. He had a valid point in there being a bunch of same premise games that don't have a lot of distinguishable features.
However said seems to have been lost in in the salt and general passive agressive posts that followed. Like I know people don't want to have their fun labeled as badwrong but you guys got worked up over very little

Ironically, I don't think anyone in this thread even plays or runs the kind of roleplays Iallcsz was talking about except as a joke. Give my regards to your compatriots, by the way.

 

[Bone2pick]

I'm also one of those people who believes creative pursuits are not exempt from rules, guidelines, analysis, and improvement, of course.

If I could create an example for you in order to measure what you mean here. Let's pretend I put up a "breakfast club" high school RP with minimal details. And let's say I recruit nine players into this game. If everyone is enjoying themselves, then where's the fault? How much value (if any) should I give outside analysis?


If I could take a guess, I imagine you don't think there is any fault in the above example; it just simply wouldn't be your cup of RP tea. For the record it wouldn't be mine. I'm just confused on the notion that an RP could be working — it could be satisfying involved players — but it should change according to a uninvolved person's critique.

 

[Grey]

Oh, man, did I seem to be suggesting that? Sorry.


Your guess is correct - I'd just leave 'em to it. We're all here to have fun; some of us just have as much fun with the construction and dissection as we do the actual play.


What I mean is I believe the odds for successfully filling and sustaining a game improve as those criteria are met, you know? As you say, you wouldn't join the example, either.


I also tend to assume everyone wants to improve, and that people involved in text-based roleplaying have some stake in the art of writing. But I try not to barge into games unsolicited and dispense suggestions (if it goes up in Planning & Advice, though...).


So, to clarify; if someone is looking for assistance with a roleplay setting, I'm going to evaluate it as critically as I can and make suggestions in accordance with the narrative and creative principles I understand. If there's a roleplay being pitched, I'm going to evaluate it along those same lines before deciding if I want to join. If it seems to be struggling, I might mention where I think it falls down or my reason for choosing not to play, in the hopes the creator will be able to make use of that information and have more success with other players.

 

[Bone2pick]

You didn't suggest anything, I was just confused on the specifics of where you stood. Thanks for answering my questions.

 

[Blumenkranz]

"Necessary" & "correct" are interesting words for a creative/recreational pursuit.

And saying nourishment is necessary is also pointless since the "only" consequence is dying of starvation. Let's try not to look at this issue from a general standpoint, let's try to look at it from an internal point of view. Yes, a setting is important for roleplaying just as much as acting is. Settings are inherent to the act of roleplaying, or else there would be no role and no playing.


If you put two guys in the same room and just tell them to roleplay, what are they going to do first? They are going to define their roles and fabricate a situation where it makes sense for them to meet. The setting is codependent of their roles, and viceversa: if you define first the roles, the situation will have to be fitting for them; if you define the situation first, the roles have to be integrated with said situation. Of course, they are probably going to make some really simple barebones roles and setting (a drunk wizard and a biker meet in a shady bar, for example) since you just asked them to do so some seconds ago, but the point is there has to be a setting to add cohesion to the roleplay.


Of course, one of the advantages of PbP RP is that you don't have to imagine a setting in a few minutes like the guys above. You can take hours, days if you want, before you push your post to the net. Maybe you don't like convoluted stories, and that's fine, but if you look through your window you are not just going to see "a realistic modern world". You are seeing your street; you are seeing the cars, the shops, the other houses, people walking by, the color of the sky... and it is not the same describing slums, full of old cars with broken windows repaired with cardboard, old shops that have closed years ago, crappy buildings covered with graffitties and flickering lights being the only light source of this street than describing a residential suburb, with people cleaning their nice familiar cars in front of their garages or playing with their kids in a Saturday morning. Players are not going to act the same in these two situations, and this also applies to academy games.


Most fantasy academy games are described as "a boarding school, but with magic". This is simply not enough information and your players will either reduce themselves to talking in front of each other for years or make stuff up to keep things more dynamic. While cooperative setting writing is a valid alternative to writing a setting yourself, you will want to record what your players invent or else things will lose synchronization very quickly.


The point is, the setting will affect players because that's what it does by definition. Even school roleplays benefit from describing the school and its grounds. PHANTASMA, the first game Iallcsz quoted, is in fact described as a dysfunctional school with very few funds (and around 70% of that money goes into the school bus), and it shows in what kind of people are the teachers: an old vampire who hates people and has a fetish for the school bus, an ex-convict from a biker gang who loves poetry and a paranoid ex-shadowrunner Russian lady. Only the new poor superhero skeleton gymnastics teacher has accreditation, the rest were hired just because they were the cheapest people they could find.


How much you want to describe your game really depends on the kind of game you are going to run. For example, medieval fantasy roleplays require some serious setting writing, specially if politics are involved, but school games can be much simpler than that. I think Grey hit the nail when listing what questions should any not-just-sandbox roleplay solve (although I would add that explaining magic/power-tool-of-this-setting mechanics can solve quite a few problems in the future), but with school roleplays it can be simplified. It is EXTREMELY important to follow the first rule and define a time and place, specially the place since your players are going to freely navigate that school and they might as well know how it's distributed.


I remember I joined a fantasy academy roleplay some months ago. The setting was relatively well written although, much more extensive and rich than your average fantasy school, and it even had maps to show the distribution of the school. However, the GM forgot about defining how were the bedrooms distributed (mind you, this is very important since sharing bedrooms could modify how people interact completely). Since she was picky about people making stuff up about the setting, we had to wait one or two days for our question in the OOC section to be answered so we could advance.


What I am trying to say here is, what you have to define and how much effort you have to put into it is only determined by what you are trying to do. If you are trying to make a game based around faction politics you are going to need to write a lot since it's a complicated topic that often requires you to describe in depth locations and cultures, but if you want to write a modern realistic setting you will probably want to define the plot better, maybe a general description of the city and then just move on with the NPC.


There is no fixed necessary amount of description, just like there is no need to go in depth with stuff the players have no reason to know or worry about yet (there is no need to elaborate maps about some legendary hidden ruins before the players get there). The beauty of roleplaying is that you can expand as you play, it is not like a videogame where every possibility has to be programmed before the game is released. However, you have to give your players some initial ground to stand in so they can elaborate their plot hooks and blend their characters with the setting from the start. Defining mechanics (what magic can and can not do, for example) will also solve many problems related to characters being rejected for being too overpowered.


As a rule of thumb: if your players don't have to ask about vital parts of the setting (assuming they don't make stuff up), your setting is solid. If your players can elaborate a good plot hook themselves, your setting is good.


Note that this only applies to PbP RP since it's asynchronous and the flow of interactions may be already slow enough to add the GM's response time. In session-based roleplays where everyone has to meet up at a certain time to play you can get away with just a vague description of the situation and then simply answer your players' questions, since making stuff up on the fly will just take a few seconds.

 

[Kagura]

First of all,


This will either be a civil discussion, or it won't be a discussion at all.


Consider this a warning to you all, but in particular -

... With this, I am struck with the clear revelation I'm wasting my time. So are several other members I respect.
Let's have this conversation again in a few years.

But I really wish we could chase all the one liner crap away. RP's are for people who WRITE. One liners can go to chat rooms and play.

Sure, you certainly didn't not imply that, Whatever.

Secondly- because I don't particularly want to shut down this discussion with spoopy admin warnings, I will respond.




My stance on Rpnation's 'lack of variety' is as follows -


I don't believe there is a lack of variety in any more sense than there is on any other site, it's about where interests lie and as King said, no idea ever being truly 'original'.


Not to confuse originality with variety, but I believe they correlate in the instance that you cannot have a 'variety' unless there is an 'originality' to your idea.


Now I know you said that the problem isn't unique to RpNation:

This problem isn't unique to Rpnation, I haven't not claimed that.

but, you have made your opinion personal to the RpNation:

This issue isn't even about me, it's about Rpnation.

Furthermore, to take the ever popular 'school' roleplay as an example - I find it very problematic to group role plays based on one aspect of their setting. According to what you defined,

School Roleplays: Roleplays that primarly takes place within a school, academy, unversity, college etc.

No matter what the roleplay is about if your roleplay takes place within a school - it is automatically a school roleplay. Lest I remind you that popular anime fandoms (by readership) all start in a 'school' atmmosphere - Naruto, Bleach, D.Greymen, etc.


They all have aspects of school, so therefore are in that category, right?


I'm sure there are other examples of such, but the point is that the world and setting are different.


It also complicates the very idea of your suggestion:

Firstly, I would mainly suggest trying to mix setttings and take various aspects from them.

If I try to mix settings, I better not include an Academy or School anywhere in my role play, less I be marked as an average 'school' roleplay. I know the argument stands:

The roleplays on the list did not have both elements, I based it on their predominant elements.

- but when someone (can't remember who off the top of my head) pigeonhole's your rp into the very same sort of category, you are quick to argue:

There's more than that. There's also politics, history, imperialism, backstories, and conflict.

Like you said, we are basing it on predominant elements. So it doesn't matter that one of the role players in a 'school' role play may have delicious back story that they explore in the plot, or a history that sets the balance of the roleplay. Like many of my compatriot's I find it unfathomable that you could simply write off an rp like that.


Although I will state that most of you are hypocritical to your own notions:

As for the Academy RPs? Leave them be.

NO roleplay can be glanced at, or even perused, and then dismissed so easily.

If I could take a guess, I imagine you don't think there is any fault in the above example; it just simply wouldn't be your cup of RP tea. For the record it wouldn't be mine.

Your guess is correct - I'd just leave 'em to it. We're all here to have fun; some of us just have as much fun with the construction and dissection as we do the actual play.

Then again, I don't make roleplays so I am as much of a hypocrite myself. However, as a person who got my start in a simple 'magic school' role play. It had the elements of plot, setting and lore that we basically created within the role play with each post.


It was world building while role playing and I understand it is a specific example that might not carry over.


However, it does bring me to my next point:

The lack of information can stagnate a roleplay simply because players don't know if they should post about something they don't know or simply wait for the GM to log in, which in some cases can take a long time.

I would argue that this is a universal problem no matter the amount of detail in an roleplay, a double- edged sword, if you will. While I can certainly agree that a lack of information can stagnate a roleplay because players don't know what they can post, I also argue that too much information can restrict how a player posts.


After all roleplaying is supposed to be collaborative venture (in my sense of the word) and there comes a point where the entire world is completely built word for word and no where for me to make a mark on. The obvious argument against this is fandom roleplays, but even in those setting there are routes never taken that can be explored. This may involve creating species unseen to this world that effectively 'ruins' the world the creator's made.


Which as a GM, you might feel a little offended about, but I'd hate to see a point in time where role plays are unable to be built upon by the parties as participants.


Please understand that your point is well-made, as I did offer an extreme, but only as a representation to the other side of the argument.


Furthermore,

I have seen some of these academies described with oneliners and paragraphs with an introduction so generic ("you got a card blah blah you are invited to this wizard academy!") they have even less content than a oneliner in them. What's worse is that it's not a rare occurrence. As expected, these games die in a week, and this applies to pretty much every game that hasn't bothered writing about the setting in the least.

I can cite a large amount of oneliner roleplays (which don't deserve this amount of slander, by the way) that last longer then a week. I can agree that world-building is important - I don't necessarily think it needs to be a thing that happens specifically outside of the roleplay. A point already touched upon previously.

As a rule of thumb: if your players don't have to ask about vital parts of the setting (assuming they don't make stuff up), your setting is solid. If your players can elaborate a good plot hook themselves, your setting is good.

Although it is not your point, I'd like to add to my above statement that I don't see a problem with them making things up?


Don't get me wrong, if details of a certain part of the world are ironed specifically out and they ignored that, I can understand a problem. However, if for example you stated minimal information on a race I wanted to play and I expanded on it (with consent, because that's another issue entirely), I don't see the issue?


Finally, the creator of this thread left, but I'd like to point out the most problematic notions to the topic at hand:


The Main Argument...


ie.

my main complaint was that the same settings are overused and restrict the variety within the roleplay section.

is resolved by own admittance...

there is a limited amount of opitions you can take with each setting even with the most creative roleplayers.

In conclusion (TLDR):


The 'school' aspect of settings may be overused, but not any more than it is anywhere else (See: School Tropes). Nor is it any more overused than any other trope (that is why they're tropes after all), it's up to the creators and players to make their own unique experience and 'play' of the land.

 

[Bone2pick]

Maybe you don't like convoluted stories, and that's fine...
How much you want to describe your game really depends on the kind of game you are going to run. For example, medieval fantasy roleplays require some serious setting writing, specially if politics are involved, but school games can be much simpler than that...


What I am trying to say here is, what you have to define and how much effort you have to put into it is only determined by what you are trying to do...


There is no fixed necessary amount of description...

We don't see eye to eye on quite a bit, but if I cherry pick your post I can find an area of agreement.

 

[Iallcsz]

First of all,
This will either be a civil discussion, or it won't be a discussion at all.


Consider this a warning to you all, but in particular -


Secondly- because I don't particularly want to shut down this discussion with spoopy admin warnings, I will respond.




My stance on Rpnation's 'lack of variety' is as follows -


I don't believe there is a lack of variety in any more sense than there is on any other site, it's about where interests lie and as King said, no idea ever being truly 'original'.


Not to confuse originality with variety, but I believe they correlate in the instance that you cannot have a 'variety' unless there is an 'originality' to your idea.


Now I know you said that the problem isn't unique to RpNation:


but, you have made your opinion personal to the RpNation:


Furthermore, to take the ever popular 'school' roleplay as an example - I find it very problematic to group role plays based on one aspect of their setting. According to what you defined,


No matter what the roleplay is about if your roleplay takes place within a school - it is automatically a school roleplay. Lest I remind you that popular anime fandoms (by readership) all start in a 'school' atmmosphere - Naruto, Bleach, D.Greymen, etc.


They all have aspects of school, so therefore are in that category, right?


I'm sure there are other examples of such, but the point is that the world and setting are different.


It also complicates the very idea of your suggestion:


If I try to mix settings, I better not include an Academy or School anywhere in my role play, less I be marked as an average 'school' roleplay. I know the argument stands:


- but when someone (can't remember who off the top of my head) pigeonhole's your rp into the very same sort of category, you are quick to argue:


Like you said, we are basing it on predominant elements. So it doesn't matter that one of the role players in a 'school' role play may have delicious back story that they explore in the plot, or a history that sets the balance of the roleplay. Like many of my compatriot's I find it unfathomable that you could simply write off an rp like that.


Although I will state that most of you are hypocritical to your own notions:


Then again, I don't make roleplays so I am as much of a hypocrite myself. However, as a person who got my start in a simple 'magic school' role play. It had the elements of plot, setting and lore that we basically created within the role play with each post.


It was world building while role playing and I understand it is a specific example that might not carry over.


However, it does bring me to my next point:


I would argue that this is a universal problem no matter the amount of detail in an roleplay, a double- edged sword, if you will. While I can certainly agree that a lack of information can stagnate a roleplay because players don't know what they can post, I also argue that too much information can restrict how a player posts.


After all roleplaying is supposed to be collaborative venture (in my sense of the word) and there comes a point where the entire world is completely built word for word and no where for me to make a mark on. The obvious argument against this is fandom roleplays, but even in those setting there are routes never taken that can be explored. This may involve creating species unseen to this world that effectively 'ruins' the world the creator's made.


Which as a GM, you might feel a little offended about, but I'd hate to see a point in time where role plays are unable to be built upon by the parties as participants.


Please understand that your point is well-made, as I did offer an extreme, but only as a representation to the other side of the argument.


Furthermore,


I can cite a large amount of oneliner roleplays (which don't deserve this amount of slander, by the way) that last longer then a week. I can agree that world-building is important - I don't necessarily think it needs to be a thing that happens specifically outside of the roleplay. A point already touched upon previously.


Although it is not your point, I'd like to add to my above statement that I don't see a problem with them making things up?


Don't get me wrong, if details of a certain part of the world are ironed specifically out and they ignored that, I can understand a problem. However, if for example you stated minimal information on a race I wanted to play and I expanded on it (with consent, because that's another issue entirely), I don't see the issue?


Finally, the creator of this thread left, but I'd like to point out the most problematic notions to the topic at hand:


The Main Argument...


ie.


is resolved by own admittance...


In conclusion (TLDR):


The 'school' aspect of settings may be overused, but not any more than it is anywhere else (See: School Tropes). Nor is it any more overused than any other trope (that is why they're tropes after all), it's up to the creators and players to make their own unique experience and 'play' of the land.

With my rep gone this response isn't going to have much relevance but oh well. I still have to reply to this.


_________________________________________________________________________________________________


First off in general when you quote anyone you MUST give context for that quotation. That's why I quote a person's whole conversation instead of taking a few sentences out of it and presenting them as my argument, like you did. I'm going to go over each one and put what's missing a CONTEXT and a rebutal.


"Not to confuse originality with variety, but I believe they correlate in the instance that you cannot have a 'variety' unless there is an 'originality' to your idea.


Now I know you said that the problem isn't unique to RpNation:


↑


This problem isn't unique to Rpnation, I haven't not claimed that.


but, you have made your opinion personal to the RpNation:


↑


This issue isn't even about me, it's about Rpnation."


Your point? Rpnation is open to criticism, because criticism helps improve this site overall. Critizing Rpnation helps shows its flaws so that adminstrators, moderations, fellows, and normal roleplays can help improve this. You're a administrator for this site so isn't part of your responsiblity to make sure Rpnation can improve?


Secondly for context, this quotation is from the second page of the conversation. It was a response to Dusky after she said this:

There is but one story in this world.
Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that it is statistically improbable for RPN to lack variety - and qualitatively invalid, as well. Yes, there are a whole awful lot of overdone premises - that doesn't mean that's all there is. We have a whole lot of great and interesting things available.


If you want to address the deluge of overdone storylines, that's another matter entirely. It's a broad issue that we can only really address through our personal actions, rather than forcing it into others.

I said this statement to remind her and everyone else that this issue is regarding Rpnation's variety. Am I wrong for saying that? No.


"Furthermore, to take the ever popular 'school' roleplay as an example - I find it very problematic to group role plays based on one aspect of theirsetting. According to what you defined,





↑


School Roleplays: Roleplays that primarly takes place within a school, academy, unversity, college etc.


No matter what the roleplay is about if your roleplay takes place within a school - it is automatically a school roleplay. Lest I remind you that popular anime fandoms (by readership) all start in a 'school' atmmosphere - Naruto, Bleach, D.Greymen, etc."


You misunderstood my words again. I said primarly as it the dominant element of a roleplay it's even in the quotation. That means roleplays can have some sections that take place in a school setting and not be labeled under that category. But if the roleplay centers around the school setting it is one. For example Naruto early on takes place in a school but later on they transition on from it. Your point is invalid by my own definition of a school roleplay.


"It also complicates the very idea of your suggestion:


↑


Firstly, I would mainly suggest trying to mix setttings and take various aspects from them.


If I try to mix settings, I better not include an Academy or School anywhere in my role play, less I be marked as an average 'school' roleplay. I know the argument stands:





↑


The roleplays on the list did not have both elements, I based it on their predominant elements.


- but when someone (can't remember who off the top of my head) pigeonhole's your rp into the very same sort of category, you are quick to argue:


↑


There's more than that. There's also politics, history, imperialism, backstories, and conflict.


Like you said, we are basing it on predominant elements. So it doesn't matter that one of the role players in a 'school' role play may have delicious back story that they explore in the plot, or a history that sets the balance of the roleplay. Like many of my compatriot's I find it unfathomable that you could simply write off an rp like that."


Recall my first statement:

Although the vast majority of roleplays currently fall into several sterotypes. Which include school, magic, mystical beings, and midieval themed roleplays. This is typical within the fantasy setting as magic is a usual source for people to roleplay. But there has not been many roleplays that have deviated or atleast placed a spin onto these settings This results in a lack of variety within the fantasy genre in my opinion. Most settings are homogenous to me usually taking place in school, an academy, or in a war. These settings are extremely overused within the fantasy genre and espeically the realisitc or modern genre. I am not saying these settings are bad, but when I see multiple roleplays sharing these settings without much variety it can be boring quickly.

- Page 1


I proposed that roleplays deviate from the settings and explore new ones. This does not contradict mixing settings since it would provide a nuance towards the roleplay overall. Which I have advocated since the beginning of the roleplay. Secondly, I said predominant elements detrimine the category of a roleplay. I did not say school settings are bad in anyway, what is the issue is that a spin nor new setting is added.


If the roleplay did have a spin and included different elements then it would be fresh. So yes there's more to a roleplay than just their categories, but the majority of roleplays do not included which is the issue in the first place. Which I have been repeating over and over again when people bring this up.


The context is also missing, Bone2pick was replying to a statistic I did on the top roleplays. Which I made clear was NOT fully extensive but a sample to provide all of the settings, I also gave links to each of the roleplays so others can see it. Again, stop ripping out setences without citing them. It's extremely dishonest for to do so. Especially when you say this:

Like many of my compatriot's I find it unfathomable that you could simply write off an rp like that.

And this accusation that i'm hypocritical:


"Although I will state that most of you are hypocritical to your own notions:





↑


As for the Academy RPs? Leave them be.


↑


NO roleplay can be glanced at, or even perused, and then dismissed so easily.


↑


If I could take a guess, I imagine you don't think there is any fault in the above example; it just simply wouldn't be your cup of RP tea. For the record it wouldn't be mine.


↑


Your guess is correct - I'd just leave 'em to it. We're all here to have fun; some of us just have as much fun with the construction and dissection as we do the actual play.


Then again, I don't make roleplays so I am as much of a hypocrite myself. However, as a person who got my start in a simple 'magic school' role play. It had the elements of plot, setting and lore that we basically created within the role play with each post.


It was world building while role playing and I understand it is a specific example that might not carry over."


I'll stress this one more time. Provide a context, before going off.


"Finally, the creator of this thread left, but I'd like to point out the most problematic notions to the topic at hand:


The Main Argument...


ie.


↑


my main complaint was that the same settings are overused and restrict the variety within the roleplay section.


is resolved by own admittance...


↑


there is a limited amount of opitions you can take with each setting even with the most creative roleplayers."


A sentence does not encompass my main arguement.


Please go back and read through the first page of this thread.


And your point? That's why I proposed having new settings so that roleplayers have more opitions. But the majority of roleplays just repeat themselves instead of doing the former.


Which causes this issue in the first place!

 

[Grey]

...Do you think RPN admins and mods have the power to enforce what settings are used? It's user generated content.


It is content generated by users.


The site staff don't tell people what settings to employ.


You propose having new settings so roleplayers have more options - they literally have any option they can think of. Nowhere on RPN is a specific setting enforced.


The only way for more original or divergent settings to appear is for someone to be producing them.


Not everyone has the skill for that. The user base is creating settings according to their level of skill and experience.