Viewpoint Do you use the LGTBQ Friendly sub genre? Why or why not?

[Ayama]

May I inquire as to what these were? While I can't promise to change any particular thing, there may be things I'm doing that give the wrong impression without realizing, so I'd appreciate the feedback.

It's nothing big. I just felt that on occasion you would state things as being a certain way or as being fact, when really they seemed more like your personal opinion to me, so I would have preferred to see them prefaced with "I believe...", "I think...", "I feel that..."
I actually have a tendency to do the exact same thing and have had people reproach me for it before, so I try to be aware of it as much as possible when expressing myself ^^"

 

[Idea]

It's nothing big. I just felt that on occasion you would state things as being a certain way or as being fact, when really they seemed more like your personal opinion to me, so I would have preferred to see them prefaced with "I believe...", "I think...", "I feel that..."
I actually have a tendency to do the exact same thing and have had people reproach me for it before, so I try to be aware of it as much as possible when expressing myself ^^"

I see. Thank you for your insight.

 

[Ayama]

I see. Thank you for your insight.

No problem- thank you for sharing :3

 

[ashwynne]

Just going to reiterate, once more, that I think the term "friendly" is the problem here. Friendly is neither a setting nor a theme which is what ALL the other sub-genres are, so its inclusion is confusing (because, naturally, people ARE mixing it up as either meaning an LGBT themed roleplay, or it being a moral stance).

Shortening it to "LGBTQ" as a theme would make sense (because if the RP is focused on LGBT topics then it actually works as a theme) and making an additional tag for "LGBTQ friendly" are still my suggestions.

Best of both worlds that way and it clarifies things without requiring an "official explanation" somewhere that pretty much no one is going to read.

Turnsole
I can't speak for anyone else, but when I compared the sub-genre to m/f, m/m, f/f etc. I was referring to it as a category. Gender identity doesn't qualify as a roleplay theme any more than sexuality, but it definitely can fall under tags (like m/f, m/m, f/f) which often include various character related things (like for rp's focusing on witches there's a "witches" tag). So including it in the tag portion instead would then indicate that all gender identities and sexualities are likely to be in the RP.

But yeah, pretty much turning into a broken record and I'm mostly seeing the same arguments pop up so I'm also going to just leave it at this unless I'm specifically tagged! Wasn't going to post more at all except for the fact that I thought of a more concise way to summarize things xD

Hopefully a solution pops up that everyone (or almost everyone) can be happy with that makes things more logical and clear

 

[jones573]

Spoiler: Me Attempting To Read Through This Thread RN

I wish I could say I'm surprised that a fairly vague and general question from OP somehow devolved into some weird pseudo-debate on whether the tag should exist at all and/or what it should be replaced with, and yet.... Ugh.

Draining as it is to try and parse through these responses (much less come up with my own reply that will be politely placating enough so I don't get labeled as an angry feminist, or heaven forbid, a 'SJW'), there are enough people on this thread (and watching it) who I want to know have my support and attention so:

Staff!

I like this tag, and am very glad you added it! While it's hardly perfect, nothing is, and I think it has been serving the function of 'helping those interested in those roleplays connect with each other' (to borrow wording from the first admin post). Based on this thread and what I've heard from others, other queer people also find this tag to be useful and appreciate its existence. Like all aspects of the site (especially newer ones!) it will need improvement and tweaking over time, but at least from the perspective of this bi gal, it's not an immediate concern that needs addressing. People who don't see the need for the tag or don't want to use it don't need to, and people who like it, can. If it is something you want to address in the future, I would probably gather input from something that is NOT this thread, if only because that was presumably not OP's intent. Thanks for all you do for the queer community on this site, as well as all the other users- It's a lot of work and it does really make a difference in user experience!


Fellow queers who have been wincing every time this updates!

Please please please message me if you need to vent about/laugh at/be confused over some of the buffonery that has occurred in previous posts- The sad, the hilarious, the deeply ironic. It's so tiring to slog through this stuff and it can be really isolating and I don't want you to feel alone. Cuz you are super not. Also blanket invite to message me in the future if you see similar nonsense you need to get off your chest. Just because I do not have the time or energy to waste on this 'debate' does NOT mean that supporting you is a waste of my time or energy! On the contrary, it would be my pleasure.

 

[Fable]

I appears this has been brought up a few times so I feel there needs to be some clarification regarding the concern that the site rules do not cover discrimination. Here is the direct quote where is covers this under the rules under the Respect section:

Respect
Users are expected to respect all other users. Users may not attack, demean, insult, or harass other users of RpNation, including RpNation Staff.

Harassment, content or activity that targets other users aggressively with the intent to upset or attack, is not permitted. This includes continued interactions after being requested to cease. Requests to terminate communications, behaviors, or interactions must be respected. Any user may use the report function in cases of harassment even if not directed to them personally. Please also see our Ignore function PSA for further assistance.

Certain topics may be uncomfortable to some and should a polite request to end or switch topics happen, this request should be respected. This is allowable should the subject of the thread begin to go off-topic, become disrespectful, or volatile. It is not to be used to force others to shut down a conversation, but to keep to the topic in a respectful manner. Topics can include but are not limited to: sexuality, gender identity, religion, politics, philosophy, ideology, theology, or trigger topics (e.g. murder, sex, drug addiction). If requested to end or switch topics, users have the option to continue elsewhere; such as private messages.

Content or conduct that discriminates or encourages harassment, abuse, or violence is considered hateful conduct and is not permitted.

Here is it specifically:

Content or conduct that discriminates or encourages harassment, abuse, or violence is considered hateful conduct and is not permitted.

Now with that covered and back onto the topic of the sub-genre and tag matter. Things seem to be going around in circles here a bit and this displays why there isn't exactly a solution that perhaps everyone is going to get behind. While some suggest to create an information page... as Staff I will state it is very common for easily accessible information to be ignored, overlooked, or not even bothered to be searched for.

If you look in the Community Hub you will find users commonly asking things about their posts getting flagged by the filter when in the FAQ which is linked on the main page as well as pinned in that forum the questions on this topic are answered. Most often these informative resources are overall overlooked. This is why the goal we seek is to find something that communicates with as little confusion as possible, because admittedly there will always be some confusion (even with a multiple page guide).

I think there is misunderstanding and did not read what the intent of this sub-genre was created for when I replied a while back. I have already explained earlier that it was meant to cover the very large interest in LGBTQ roleplays. The 'Friendly' part began as a discussion here.

This sub-genre was included not because we wanted to serve a 'discriminated group' but because there is a large roleplay interest (same as for Anime, Harry Potter, which is why they are sub-genres and not tags).

This thread discussion shows there has been quite a lot lost in translation with the sub-genre being labelled as 'LGTBQ Friendly.' This is why the Staff are interested and are observing this thread's discussion on the topic.

As it has been mentioned in here that some may not automatically assume RpNation as an inclusive site (except to naughty ERP-ers); it is inclusive. This may have to be learned through interacting with the community rather than being dependent on having specific tags (or sub-genres) to signify something as inclusive to a particular group.

Here is what we are looking for as a solution which I will quote since I mentioned it previously:

The question is what can be used to relay information that LGTBQ+ characters and themes are the focus of a rolepay and that if it is not used does not give the impression they are excluded from a roleplay.

The focus for the sub-genres and tags is for roleplay usage. While it's understandable that people desire that sign of an inclusive community that is not what the filter was ever meant for. Hopefully this clears a few things up and I've not offended anyone. I can come off as very blunt and sometimes that kind of written tone can set people off so I'll mention here the intent of my reply.

• Cover concerns about the notion that rules are lacking a section regarding discrimination.
• Why a 'guide' might not work that well.
• Clear up the misunderstanding of the intent behind the sub-genre. Even providing some context behind how it got the 'Friendly' added.
• Clarify that the intent of usage of the sub-genre and tags in the filter is for roleplay use.

 

[Crayons]

I appears this has been brought up a few times so I feel there needs to be some clarification regarding the concern that the site rules do not cover discrimination. Here is the direct quote where is covers this under the rules under the Respect section:

Here is it specifically:


Now with that covered and back onto the topic of the sub-genre and tag matter. Things seem to be going around in circles here a bit and this displays why there isn't exactly a solution that perhaps everyone is going to get behind. While some suggest to create an information page... as Staff I will state it is very common for easily accessible information to be ignored, overlooked, or not even bothered to be searched for.

If you look in the Community Hub you will find users commonly asking things about their posts getting flagged by the filter when in the FAQ which is linked on the main page as well as pinned in that forum the questions on this topic are answered. Most often these informative resources are overall overlooked. This is why the goal we seek is to find something that communicates with as little confusion as possible, because admittedly there will always be some confusion (even with a multiple page guide).

I think there is misunderstanding and did not read what the intent of this sub-genre was created for when I replied a while back. I have already explained earlier that it was meant to cover the very large interest in LGBTQ roleplays. The 'Friendly' part began as a discussion here.

This sub-genre was included not because we wanted to serve a 'discriminated group' but because there is a large roleplay interest (same as for Anime, Harry Potter, which is why they are sub-genres and not tags).

This thread discussion shows there has been quite a lot lost in translation with the sub-genre being labelled as 'LGTBQ Friendly.' This is why the Staff are interested and are observing this thread's discussion on the topic.

As it has been mentioned in here that some may not automatically assume RpNation as an inclusive site (except to naughty ERP-ers); it is inclusive. This may have to be learned through interacting with the community rather than being dependent on having specific tags (or sub-genres) to signify something as inclusive to a particular group.

Here is what we are looking for as a solution which I will quote since I mentioned it previously:

The focus for the sub-genres and tags is for roleplay usage. While it's understandable that people desire that sign of an inclusive community that is not what the filter was ever meant for. Hopefully this clears a few things up and I've not offended anyone. I can come off as very blunt and sometimes that kind of written tone can set people off so I'll mention here the intent of my reply.

• Cover concerns about the notion that rules are lacking a section regarding discrimination.
• Why a 'guide' might not work that well.
• Clear up the misunderstanding of the intent behind the sub-genre. Even providing some context behind how it got the 'Friendly' added.
• Clarify that the intent of usage of the sub-genre and tags in the filter is for roleplay use.

Thank you for this very informative post.

After reading the origin of the LGBTQ-Friendly subgenre, I ... kind of get why it was done, but I personally think that "Friendly" does not clarify what the tag is for, and in fact confuses things. I would suggest that it gets renamed to something that better reflects what it is actually for. Why not have a "Straight" tag and an "LGBTQ" tag? Then if people want the RP to include both, just use both.

It's not strictly relevant, but I think it would be useful to have common bigotry topics specifically called out in bold lettering in the anti-harassment policy, right up front. Some people don't understand that "harassment" includes being non-discriminatory to marginalised groups (as in on the basis of gender, sexuality, race or ethnic background, and ability) and so these should really be listed so no one has any excuses. (I'm assuming that this is at least sometimes a problem given that people here have mentioned being discriminated against on the grounds of their sexuality/gender identity.)

 

[GM Angel]

Good to know, new to the site and honestly it was the 'friendly' part that threw me off, though I understand now. Made it seem to me at first glance like a statement of intent rather than strictly a theme or genre tag.

 

[Amyleii]

Leii is just a cute girl who wants to rp with everyone happily and be cute. I don't even use the tags, generally I look at the information given in the interest check or the actual rp and ask to join if I find it interesting, I trust that the site has my back if someone discriminates against me. I feel like the tag does make others in the lgbt feel safe but I can see how some can register it as a "I am not homophobic like those other RP threads" button, which makes the site look bad in that aspect.

 

[Ayama]

Fable
Thank you very much for that helpful information- it definitely clears things up a lot!
I agree with Crayons that the section about discrimination in the rules is pretty obscure (I read them several times without catching what you just pointed out), and maybe rephrasing and/or making it bold would be helpful. But I'm very happy to know that it's in there!
I guess you guys have no interest in making an inclusive tag, so I'll just address the sub-genre. Again, I agree with Crayons that, while we see how it came about, clearly it's been causing a lot of confusion, so my suggestion would be to change it to LGBTQ+-themes or -themed, indicating an open focus of the RP on LGBTQ+ character/relationships/issues ^w^

 

[The Dark Wizard]

I'm gay myself self and while we will obviously discuss and work on the best solution as Fable mentioned in her post, I think people should just continue enjoying their RPs and making awesome LGBTQ+ content while we take care of everything else. For over a decade, we didn't have the sub-genre system, and that didn't stop the growth of our very large LGBTQ+ portion of our community.

Every moment yall spend discussing here is one less moment you are not writing fabulous posts for me to read.

 

[Ayama]

I'm gay myself self and while we will obviously discuss and work on the best solution as Fable mentioned in her post, I think people should just continue enjoying their RPs and making awesome LGBTQ+ content while we take care of everything else. For over a decade, we didn't have the sub-genre system, and that didn't stop the growth of our very large LGBTQ+ portion of our community.

Every moment yall spend discussing here is one less moment you are not writing fabulous posts for me to read.

That is the politest way of telling someone to stfu I have ever seen ;P

 

[Psyche]

I don’t use it since well, it doesn’t really relate to any of the plot in my roleplay- and I don’t want to use it with making it come across like LGBT themes are the purpose of the roleplay. I play/played characters of many genders and sexualities, and I encourage my partners to do whatever they want/are comfortable with. But LGBT isn’t a sub-genre, and it’s already so vague to begin with. Does it mean the person whose playing them are gay? Am I going to tackle themes? Can you have a character? Who knows- but I’d rather not have a tag that can be easily misinterpreted

EDIT: I also wanted to add that by this present logic RPN might as well have checkboxes for 'Black friendly' 'Asian friendly' 'Disability friendly' 'Jew friendly' 'Atheist friendly' and whatever else bigots might discriminate against. It doesn't, I think, because it knows that asking people to say what they want to tolerate is not the right way to combat discrimination, not by a long shot.

I agree. This isn’t meant to come across as offensive, but why not have any of those tags? They’ve been discriminated against in the past/present, and may feel intimidated to play a person of that status. It feels like it’s doing more exclusion then not, and it kinda herds everyone into a safe space as much as I hate to say it. So why wouldn’t LGBT+ fall into the same category? Is there something different about those struggles in comparison to any of the others mentioned? Are any really less important then the others (this is a rhetorical question, please don’t make this turn into an argument about who has it worse because that’s going to make this discussion go on a rocky road)? I might just be naive, but it kinda just sectionalizes the community- especially since I feel like it can easily lead to the discussion of “Why not have a ___tag?” Leading to the implication that some issues are more important then others which I doubt would be the intent

I hope this makes some sense and doesn’t sound like stupid rambling

I don’t really have that much of a solution that wasn’t previously stated (changing tags/scrapping it), but ths is just my opinion on the matter on why I don’t personally use it/thoughts on it as a whole.

 

[BackSet]

I normally do not use it. I used to, but not now. Mainly because it's not really all that important to most of my roleplays. I'm making a Pokemon rp about adventures and stuff. Why would I need it? I mean, LGBT+ characters are certainly welcome but really there's no point in using a tag that'll never really be important in the roleplay.

The main exception is this one Magical Girl rp I keep rebooting that has a habit of having a heavy amount of LGBT+ characters so I use the tag there because of that, regardless of how many LGBT+ characters it actually ends up with.

It should be noted that I personally usually play Asexual and Aromantic characters both because I myself am Ace Aro and that ut gives me an excuse to not take part in any romantic drama that may or may not take place in the rp (I'm not a fan of the romance genre) but that never really plays into anything regarding the tag.

 

[TheInsanityOfBobSemple]

I honestly don't get the point of it. Never used it or ever needed to.

 

[rae2nerdy]

I normally do not use it. I used to, but not now. Mainly because it's not really all that important to most of my roleplays. I'm making a Pokemon rp about adventures and stuff. Why would I need it? I mean, LGBT+ characters are certainly welcome but really there's no point in using a tag that'll never really be important in the roleplay.

The main exception is this one Magical Girl rp I keep rebooting that has a habit of having a heavy amount of LGBT+ characters so I use the tag there because of that, regardless of how many LGBT+ characters it actually ends up with.

It should be noted that I personally usually play Asexual and Aromantic characters both because I myself am Ace Aro and that ut gives me an excuse to not take part in any romantic drama that may or may not take place in the rp (I'm not a fan of the romance genre) but that never really plays into anything regarding the tag.

Just to be clear Aro/Ace would fall under the umbrella of LGBTQ+. So if you play those characters predominately (especially in 1x1) than your roleplays would count as LGBTQ friendly. I’m not saying you have to use the tag or anything. Just letting you know that those are characters that fit the acronym (they’re just in the + part which can’t be added because of formatting on the sub forum)

 

[BackSet]

Just to be clear Aro/Ace would fall under the umbrella of LGBTQ+. So if you play those characters predominately (especially in 1x1) than your roleplays would count as LGBTQ friendly. I’m not saying you have to use the tag or anything. Just letting you know that those are characters that fit the acronym (they’re just in the + part which can’t be added because of formatting on the sub forum)

I know that. But like I said, it has no impact into my choice of tags. Most of the time I'm the only one who know's the characters are Aro/Ace because I didn't put it on their cs because it wasn't important.

 

[rae2nerdy]

I know that. But like I said, it has no impact into my choice of tags. Most of the time I'm the only one who know's the characters are Aro/Ace because I didn't put it on their cs because it wasn't important.

I’m confused if you are making them aro/ace to avoid romance wouldn’t that be something your partner should know? Otherwise it kind of defeats the purpose doesn’t it? Or did I just completely misunderstand your first post.

 

[BackSet]

I’m confused if you are making them aro/ace to avoid romance wouldn’t that be something your partner should know? Otherwise it kind of defeats the purpose doesn’t it? Or did I just completely misunderstand your first post.

I only do group roleplays. And I mostly do it out of habit now.

 

[Jannah]

I don't add the tag since I'm not usually open to LGBT+ relationships in my RP's(I simply prefer MxF when it comes to romance). I also play in a lot of settings where LGBT+ characters simply wouldn't fit unless the player is okay with their character(s) being closeted or discriminated against. That being said, though, I don't really care if my writing partners are LGBT+ themselves(I'm under that label myself, being ace). They just have to understand that the RP's I'm offering are usually not in a sort of setting that is open to homosexuality and the like.

 

[BakaTheIdiot]

When it comes to LGBTQ friendly RPs, I run into the same problem I have with romance as a whole: it's hard to get right (for me personally). In group Roleplays it's far easier, because then it isn't up to me.

Now when I say "get right" I'm only saying that it isn't a community I'm a part of, as far as I know. As such, I have little, if any, real experience in LGBTQ role playing. I've wanted to try before, but there's this deep phobia of getting it wrong or saying something completely fucked at the slip of a tongue preventing me from it. My attempted inoffensive nature often prohibits me from doing something outside of comfort, namely in areas of characters that aren't entirely like me, for fear of saying something racist/homophobic or resorting to stereotypes.

...does that make any sense at all? It's hard to explain.

 

[Jannah]

When it comes to LGBTQ friendly RPs, I run into the same problem I have with romance as a whole: it's hard to get right (for me personally). In group Roleplays it's far easier, because then it isn't up to me.

Now when I say "get right" I'm only saying that it isn't a community I'm a part of, as far as I know. As such, I have little, if any, real experience in LGBTQ role playing. I've wanted to try before, but there's this deep phobia of getting it wrong or saying something completely fucked at the slip of a tongue preventing me from it. My attempted inoffensive nature often prohibits me from doing something outside of comfort, namely in areas of characters that aren't entirely like me, for fear of saying something racist/homophobic or resorting to stereotypes.

...does that make any sense at all? It's hard to explain.

This is actually part of the reason why almost all my characters are either straight, asexual, or bisexual(who happen to be in hetero-passing relationships). I'm often wary to play out full-on homosexual relationships as I'm not gay nor am I involved in the community in anyway despite being asexual myself. I don't really identify with the subculture/movement all that much for a variety of reasons, thus don't engage myself in it.

 

[Idea]

I’m confused if you are making them aro/ace to avoid romance wouldn’t that be something your partner should know? Otherwise it kind of defeats the purpose doesn’t it? Or did I just completely misunderstand your first post.

The way I see it regarding this question would be that a character can be more than what is told or comes into play. It’s entirely reasonable to play a character just because one likes that kind of character, and even more so to make specific choices about a character just due to one’s own preferences or beliefs about the character, even if these never come up.

 

[rae2nerdy]

The way I see it regarding this question would be that a character can be more than what is told or comes into play. It’s entirely reasonable to play a character just because one likes that kind of character, and even more so to make specific choices about a character just due to one’s own preferences or beliefs about the character, even if these never come up.

Which is fair enough but again if you have some character trait that affects your partner shouldn’t you mention it? Ex. If my character is a bigot then I would warn my roleplay partner if they told me they were making a character of color. I wouldn’t spring it on them in the roleplay as it might negatively affect their enjoyment of the story.

So therefore if your partner is expecting romance than not telling them your character is aro/ace is kind of rude. As you are making a decision that affects their plans for the roleplay.

If it’s a story where romance isn’t at play than yeah you can mention it or not. But if romance is in play than you have an obligation to ensure your partner has a fair idea of what to expect.

Now it’s possible the OP was talking about aboyt a situation where the information is not relevant but that’s not the assumption I made which is why I asked for clarification.

 

[still watching fma]

I just assume any rp is open to gay characters unless it's literally a pairing 1 x 1 for a straight couple(like joker x harlquin). What person on rpn has ever rejected someone for posting a gay character? I'd be surprised to see that at all.