Custom Enlightening charm set

[vinom]

I'm considering a set of custom Dragon Blooded Enlightening charms. I would like constructive criticism...


Charm 1: The Glint in the Eye, Brighter than Gold


-- Martial Arts 4, Essence 3, Mastered (All charms in the tree) a terrestrial martial arts style


Permanent


Terrestrial martial arts charms cost 4 xp less and take half the time to train.


After mastering two Celestial Martial arts, Celestial martial arts charms also cost 4 xp less and take half the time to train, in addition it negate the need for a sifu who knows the complete style, a manual on the style will do. The Dragon Blooded may still only learn one Celestial Martial arts style at a time, with the same xp penalties for learning Terrestrial martial arts charms.


Charm 2: The Sweat on the Brow, Better than Jade.


--Martial Arts 5, Essence 4, Any Martial Arts Excellency, Mastered (All charms in the tree) 2 terrestrial martial arts styles


Permanent, Enlightening


All form charms have their speed reduced by 1 tick. While in a form charm, the style’s form weapons gains a +1 accuracy or +1 damage (Player’s choice) for every dot of essence over the form charm’s minimum and every dot of martial arts over the form charm’s minimum.


After Mastering(All charms in the tree) a Celestial Martial Arts Style, the Dragon-Blooded no longer needs to make a (Dexterity + Martial Arts) Check to assume the style’s form charm.

 

[IcarusWings]

That first one is craaazy. The discount on TMA Charms is fine, but discounting CMAs? You're making Charms which are stronger the native DB Charms, cost less to learn. That's just.... I don't even know....


The second is more balanced, although I'm wary of reducing the speed of Forms, but it seems fairly solid. I'll have to give it more scrutiny.

 

[Requiem_Jeer]

Nah, some form charms require laughably low prerequisetes. Once you get to ess 5 MA 5, much less elder, you could stack so many accuracy bonuses that you'd be looking for the least prerequisite and best form weapon instead of choosing the form charm on it's own merits. There's pretty much no way to balance a bonus based on how far you've exceeded the prerequisites. How about have it reduce the speed of the form weapon by 1?

 

[vinom]

Does this version seem more balanced?


Charm 1: The Glint in the Eye, Purer than Gold


-- Martial Arts 4, Essence 3, Mastered (All charms in the tree) 1 terrestrial martial arts styles


Permanent


Terrestrial martial arts charms cost 4 xp less and take half the time to train.


After mastering two Celestial Martial arts, Celestial martial arts charms also cost 4 xp less and take half the time to train, in addition it negate the need for a sifu who knows the complete style, a manual on the style will do. The Dragon Blooded may still only learn one Celestial Martial arts style at a time, with the same xp penalties for learning Terrestrial martial arts charms.


Charm 2: The Sweat on the Brow, Harder than Jade.


--Martial Arts 5, Essence 4, Any Martial Arts Excellency, Mastered (All charms in the tree) 2 terrestrial martial arts styles


Permanent, Enlightening


All form charms have their speed reduced by 1 tick. This charm lowered the speed of all form charms by 1 tick. In addition, when fighting unarmed or with an appropriate form weapon while in a form charm, treat it as if it is made of either jade or the color of jade aligned with the user's aspect. If the weapon already has a jade material bonus, it gains the aspected color's benefit. If the weapon has an aspected jade magical material bonus, it gains the regular jade bonus. This bonus is chosen as part of the form assumption


After Mastering(All charms in the tree) a Celestial Martial Arts Style, the Dragon-Blooded no longer needs to make a (Dexterity + Martial Arts) Check to assume the style’s form charm.

 

[Kyeudo]

Those discounts put Terrestrial Martial Arts Charms cheaper than regular Dragonblooded Charms for combat and put Celestial Martial Arts Charms just as cheap as regular Dragonblooded Charms. In other words, your Charm puts Martial Arts as the One True Build for Dragonblooded if it exists. This is bad.

 

[Requiem_Jeer]

True, but in order to actually gain these bonuses, you have to have already soaked the higher xp costs for an entire style, 2 for celestial ones. Perhaps an explicit statement that it doesn't refund the spent xp? It seems to me that the point is to raise a dragonblooded (and a custom enlightenment charm is sure to be rare indeed) to be a touch more on par with a celestial, using existing mechanics to do so. This is further punctuated by the more limited version of sun sword concentration that the second charm represents.

 

[Rialle]

Those discounts put Terrestrial Martial Arts Charms cheaper than regular Dragonblooded Charms for combat and put Celestial Martial Arts Charms just as cheap as regular Dragonblooded Charms. In other words, your Charm puts Martial Arts as the One True Build for Dragonblooded if it exists. This is bad.

What changes would you suggest to make the charms more balanced?

 

[IcarusWings]

Those discounts put Terrestrial Martial Arts Charms cheaper than regular Dragonblooded Charms for combat and put Celestial Martial Arts Charms just as cheap as regular Dragonblooded Charms. In other words, your Charm puts Martial Arts as the One True Build for Dragonblooded if it exists. This is bad.

What changes would you suggest to make the charms more balanced?

Any discount on Celestial Martial Arts has to go I'm afraid. As Kyeudo said, CMA are more powerful than the base DB Charmset, they cost more for a reason.

 

[Captain Hesperus]

Those discounts put Terrestrial Martial Arts Charms cheaper than regular Dragonblooded Charms for combat and put Celestial Martial Arts Charms just as cheap as regular Dragonblooded Charms. In other words, your Charm puts Martial Arts as the One True Build for Dragonblooded if it exists. This is bad.

What changes would you suggest to make the charms more balanced?

Any discount on Celestial Martial Arts has to go I'm afraid. As Kyeudo said, CMA are more powerful than the base DB Charmset, they cost more for a reason.

As far as I remember, Celestials have no means of reducing the xp cost and training times of CMA. It makes sense that Terrestrials, canonically the least powerful of the Exalts, should not be able to do this.


Captain Hesperus

 

[vinom]

What changes would you suggest to make the charms more balanced?

Any discount on Celestial Martial Arts has to go I'm afraid. As Kyeudo said, CMA are more powerful than the base DB Charmset, they cost more for a reason.

As far as I remember, Celestials have no means of reducing the xp cost and training times of CMA. It makes sense that Terrestrials, canonically the least powerful of the Exalts, should not be able to do this.


Captain Hesperus

And yet, what could be more fitting for a charm set built around the philosophy that the only thing required to surpass another has nothing to do with station, title, family lineage, or grace of gods, but the shear effort a party is willing to put into there endeavor, then the removal of a limiter put on the dragon-blooded and no one else.

 

[Kyeudo]

And yet, what could be more fitting for a charm set built around the philosophy that the only thing required to surpass another has nothing to do with station, title, family lineage, or grace of gods, but the shear effort a party is willing to put into there endeavor, then the removal of a limiter put on the dragon-blooded and no one else.

I think you are forgetting that most gods, ghosts, demons, and elementals can't use Celestial Martial Arts. Mortals can't go beyond Terrestrial Martial Arts. Lunars, Green Sun Princes, and Alchemicals cannot learn Sidereal Martial Arts.


There are many many people in Exalted that are contrained in much the same way as the Dragon-Blooded. It is necessary that way for the setting's integrity.

 

[Captain Hesperus]

And yet, what could be more fitting for a charm set built around the philosophy that the only thing required to surpass another has nothing to do with station, title, family lineage, or grace of gods, but the shear effort a party is willing to put into there endeavor, then the removal of a limiter put on the dragon-blooded and no one else.

The reason CMAs cost more than TMAs for the Dragon-Blooded is nothing to do with any of the things you mention. CMAs are based on abstract concepts, alien ideas and entirely different mental landscapes to the TMAs. The reason for the long training times and increase xp cost reflects this, the Dragon-Blooded is trying to understand something that is far beyond their understanding.


It would be like a steam engine builder being asked to make a nuclear powerplant from first principles. Yes, he could do it, as the general concepts are the same (i.e. heat makes steam, steam drives turbines, turbines produce power), but the process of simply understanding the specifics are an entire lifetime's worth of careful, meticulous study and personal experimentation, and that's before even designing and building it. Even with a teacher, it's a lengthy, hard process.


Captain Hesperus