Cold-wrought Iron and Permanent Glamours
- Thread starter simnine
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Silence In Daylight
One Thousand Club
Yes, with very specific exceptions--see p. 131 of Fair Folk.
It seems strange that permanent glamour equipment would be worth so much in creation if it is so easily dispelled
the reason I asked is because the book mentions works of glamor as something different than permanent glamors separately. It states that permanent glamours are "effectively real". The rules seem rather ambiguous to me.
My interpretation is that iron dispels works of glamor, such as gossamer wings, but does not effect permanent glamours because they are effectively real.
My perspective is biased however as I wish to play a noble fair folk in a creation based game and I just know that the storyteller will throw extras at me with dinky iron weapons to dispel my gear.
I guess that I am just trying to get someone else's perspective on the rules. Perhaps I will email the developer or look for an errata.
the reason I asked is because the book mentions works of glamor as something different than permanent glamors separately. It states that permanent glamours are "effectively real". The rules seem rather ambiguous to me.
My interpretation is that iron dispels works of glamor, such as gossamer wings, but does not effect permanent glamours because they are effectively real.
My perspective is biased however as I wish to play a noble fair folk in a creation based game and I just know that the storyteller will throw extras at me with dinky iron weapons to dispel my gear.
I guess that I am just trying to get someone else's perspective on the rules. Perhaps I will email the developer or look for an errata.
Silence In Daylight
One Thousand Club
 Why? Most normal works of art undergo a significant drop in value once someone takes a sledgehammer to them, and the sledgehammer doesn't even need to be made of cold iron. =)simnine said:
 So, plan against it. Keep a familiar around who can function normally in Creation, and isn't susceptible to cold iron (plenty of suggestions in chapter 1). Alternatively, load up on glamour sorcery (as they are based on an Assumption charm, they aren't affected), Wyld artifacts (reasonable to assume that they resist cold iron; otherwise, why would the pre-FF stats in the core book and Scavenger Sons refer to Fair Folk only retaining armor soak against cold iron?), adjurations (mutations), and behemoths (Assumption charm and mutations).simnine said:
I always assumed that they were wearing permanent glamour gossamer armour. The stats are exactly those of gossamer superheavy plate. I also found that even the stongest solar wyld influencing cham has no effect on permanent glamours once they are formed, which further makes me believe that permanent glamour is not dispelled by cold-wrought iron.
Vanman
Two Thousand Club
Have you talked to your ST about this issue? Has he specifically said that cold iron will dispel your gear? He seems the guy you need to talk to. Regardless of what it says in the rules, if he feels like cold iron dispels permanent glamours, then he'll do that. It is his game, after all.simnine said:
Silence In Daylight
One Thousand Club
 Wyld-influencing charms do exactly that--influence the Wyld. Shaped gossamer isn't part of the Wyld anymore. After all, Fair Folk aren't subject to Wyld-influencing charms either...simnine said:
 Before FF came out, I'd agree with you that there were certain types of glamour that weren't affected by cold iron. However, FF distinctly altered that. Van's suggestion is good, though--get your ST's opinion on this...he's the one that'll end up making the call, after all.
Wyld influencing charms do, in fact, affect works of glamour (it dispels them), but it does not dispel permanent glamours already in effect nor does it dispel mutations.
Ultimately, the storyteller is going to make the call as mentioned. I am just  working on my arguement until I can get an official verdict from one of the writers.
You ever took into consideration to just talk openly to your storyteller, I mean after all he can just ignore the official verdict, too if it doesn't fit into his chronicle. Ask him for the why and then live with his explanation if you can not persuade him otherwise or if the story calls for this. It is his story after all...
It is likely that I will be running a fair-folk game in the future, so the question is for my benefit as well as that of the soryteller of the game in which I play.
I have come to the conclusion that works of glamour and permanent glamours are 2 different things. Works of glamour are active charms, while permanent glamours are the results of completed charms. Some permanent glamours are even capable of creating works of glamour. Cold-Wrought Iron can dispel works of glamour but permanent glamours are hardened against it. Of course, permanent glamours slowly wither away in Creation over the years so they are only truly permanent within areas of wyld influence. And last, but not least, permanent glamours are not unbreakable. They are as durable as an exceptional crafted item of the same type.
If the storyteller rules otherwise, then so be it
I have come to the conclusion that works of glamour and permanent glamours are 2 different things. Works of glamour are active charms, while permanent glamours are the results of completed charms. Some permanent glamours are even capable of creating works of glamour. Cold-Wrought Iron can dispel works of glamour but permanent glamours are hardened against it. Of course, permanent glamours slowly wither away in Creation over the years so they are only truly permanent within areas of wyld influence. And last, but not least, permanent glamours are not unbreakable. They are as durable as an exceptional crafted item of the same type.
If the storyteller rules otherwise, then so be it
Simnine,
A well thought out treatment of your dilemma, I applaud it. It's very reasonable. I realise that I'm not your ST, so take this with a grain of salt. I'd be checking to see if permanent glamours require a raw material/resource like cost, and if they do I'd agree to your interpretation, if they don't though, I'd be saying that 'cold wrought iron' still destroys permanent glamours, and this isn't a big deal as the material would only exist to harm Fair Folk because it's a pretty shitty metal for weapons compared to what else is available, far too brittle for instance. Good luck with your game!
A well thought out treatment of your dilemma, I applaud it. It's very reasonable. I realise that I'm not your ST, so take this with a grain of salt. I'd be checking to see if permanent glamours require a raw material/resource like cost, and if they do I'd agree to your interpretation, if they don't though, I'd be saying that 'cold wrought iron' still destroys permanent glamours, and this isn't a big deal as the material would only exist to harm Fair Folk because it's a pretty shitty metal for weapons compared to what else is available, far too brittle for instance. Good luck with your game!
