Charing?

[Persell]

So, spears and direlances gain a bonus to damage when "charging." But what sort of action is a charge? Do you just have to make a move action? Do you have to be mounted? Do you have to dash? Falling from a great height?

 

[Nemal]

Don't think about it too much.


A "Charge" is any attack that you can reasonably describe as... well, a charging movement.


If you started the round in close combat, or already attacked once within this flurry, you're clearly not charging.


If you spent your movement this round approaching your enemy, it can count as a "charge" as long as you describe it to be so.


It also makes a neat extra incentive for stunts, because a clever player can pass off lots of stuff as "charging" to get the extra damage- such as falling on an enemy from above with the spear (Monkey Leap works wonders for this), bouncing off the wall, etc.


There are no actual rules regarding what's a charge and what isn't. (As far as I know...)

 

[Flagg]

I would rule that a "charge" is an attack that occurs on the tick immediately following a full move action.

 

[Arthur]

I'd add to that that a Charge can also be a flurried Dash action.

 

[cyl]

Ouch -5 DV (- 2 actions in the flurry, -2 per dash, -1 for attack) for a charge... you're a bit harsh good sir.


I'd go with a regular attack (regarding speed) and -3 DV (dash+attack penalty) with a condition of moving at least dexterity+6 yards (which is one tick of the Dash action) and a max of Dexterity xspeed of the attack *... but letting the opportunity of flurrying a charge (one movement, but several attack) adding the extra actions penalties to the -3DV already applying.


* so a dex3 character with a klave has to move 9 yards to be able to charge, but cannot move more than 12 yards in a charge.

 

[Thenlar]

Ouch -5 DV (- 2 actions in the flurry, -2 per dash, -1 for attack) for a charge... you're a bit harsh good sir.

Your math-fu is poor. A flurry doesn't cause penalties on its own. You just add the included actions. -2 for dash, -1 for attack, that's it.

 

[cyl]

Ouch -5 DV (- 2 actions in the flurry, -2 per dash, -1 for attack) for a charge... you're a bit harsh good sir.

Your math-fu is poor. A flurry doesn't cause penalties on its own. You just add the included actions. -2 for dash, -1 for attack, that's it.

Your rule- fu is even worst.

Barring the aid of magic' date=' this option (the flurry) imposes a normal multiple action penalties (p.124-125)[/quote']

Whatever the situation' date=' characters who take multiple action suffer a special form of internal penalty.[/quote']The formula being:
1st action penalty: - (number of actions taken)


2nd action penalty: - (number of actions taken+1)


and so on.


So a character making a flurry with a Dash action is actually at -1 DV (-2dice on his defensive pool) on the dash, and probably -2DV (-3 dice on his defensive pool) on his attack... I figured I'd take the worst case scenario where the -3 to dicepools would render a -2 DV.


Of course, multiple action penalties apply to calculation for DV.

 

[skafte]

Cyl, you are not wrong (or I don't get what you are saying), the penalty to your DV are your DV modifier. So:


A speed 5 attack, -1 to DV and


A speed 3 dash, -2 to DV


will end in a flurry with speed 5, -3 to DV, and -2 dice to the first action and -3 dice to the second action.

 

[Quchu]

And a huge loss of DV is not out of place when you are charging with all your might in a single blow, is it?


Also, I somehow remember that a charge required you to be mounted on something fast. Don't tell me to find the page number, though.

 

[Nightmare of Fallen Kings]

Personally, I try not to think about it to much. I give my players the charging bonus if one of the two characters in question is moving at running speed or faster directly toward the other. *shrug*

 

[Ledaal Kajiri]

And a huge loss of DV is not out of place when you are charging with all your might in a single blow, is it?
Also, I somehow remember that a charge required you to be mounted on something fast. Don't tell me to find the page number, though.

Eh? So the regular spear, which generally isn't a mounted weapon, would never get its charging bonus? Hoplites never charged? Somehow...I doubt this. The spear and various forms of it have been one of the most effective military weapons about for a reason, and it isn't just their ability to keep others at a distance. A mass of men all charging forward with spears is going to be more deadly than the same group charging on foot with swords drawn...the spear lets you put more force behind the initial thrust, while allowing you to use a more limited fighting space in formation. Cavalry isn't the only thing that charges, far from it.


Now, I can see requiring a dash action for such...but no more.

 

[skafte]

I see a phalanx of spearmen that all have put their spears down so the end is supported against the ground, and just waiting for the cavalery to charge into them. I would rule the spear men also gains the charge bonus.

 

[Smeggedoff]

I think you mean Phalanx (but I can't be sure)


generally bracing your weapon against a charge will indeed break the charge and apply some sort of damage bonus (definitely stunt at least) jst make sure your weapon's longer than theis before trying it

 

[skafte]

corrected

 

[cyl]

And a huge loss of DV is not out of place when you are charging with all your might in a single blow, is it?
Also, I somehow remember that a charge required you to be mounted on something fast. Don't tell me to find the page number, though.

Well considering that either you take charging as an action or as a flurry, you get -3DV or -4/5DV... it means that charging made you lost 6 to 10 die to your defensive pool... I think it's a bit excessive.

 

[Nemal]

Why so harsh on the lowly spear?


It's not like it's such an awesome weapon that you have to make it a costly tactical choice to get its damage bonus. That way, it's just a crappy two handed weapon.


The way I rule it? If someone moves even a single yard towards an enemy and declares it to be a charge, I let them use the bigger number. It still rarely comes up more than once per action (flurry), or even more than four or five times per combat.


It's not such a huge damage bonus, either!

 

[Smeggedoff]

I'd rule that you'd have to move at least the length of the weapon to get a charge bonus, moving a foot with an eight foot longspear isn't going to impart much extra momentum when you stab, you move it more than that with a normal thrust

 

[Nemal]

Fair enough.


Another way in which I'd handle it is: if you got a one-die stunt and used the word "charge" in it (in the context of charging an enemy, plugging your batteries in doesn't count ), you can use the bigger damage number.

 

[Thenlar]

Whatever the situation' date=' characters who take multiple action suffer a special form of internal penalty.[/quote']The formula being:
1st action penalty: - (number of actions taken)


2nd action penalty: - (number of actions taken+1)


and so on.


So a character making a flurry with a Dash action is actually at -1 DV (-2dice on his defensive pool) on the dash, and probably -2DV (-3 dice on his defensive pool) on his attack... I figured I'd take the worst case scenario where the -3 to dicepools would render a -2 DV.


Of course, multiple action penalties apply to calculation for DV.

The internal penalty only applies to the action(s) taken. Not to the DVs afterwards. That, sir, is entirely too harsh. You can play it that way if that's how you're going to interpret it, but I never will.


Anecdotally, I recall that Fivefold Bulwark Stance reduces all action DV penalties by 1. I believe I saw it stated somewhere (maybe that wiki errata?) that flurrying only attacks with 5FBS thus means you incur no DV penalties at all. I remember the dev who posted that also noting that this is pretty strong, and the charm was written when attacks gave a larger penalty. Which thus implies that even flurrying 5 times wouldn't impose a further massive DV penalty.