Character "flaws".

[DrBones]

There's a very big issue there, since that implies that, once you introduce a character with no flaws, the only way to counter them is to introduce enemies with just as few flaws. Oneupsmanship is the bane of good RPing.

 

[amdreams]

Gravity manipulation? Manipulation of magnetic fields? Those might work to at least limit his mobility.


Though we'd also need to know the capabilities of the blade and the half angel physiology.

 

[Xenonia]

You're playing a supers game. Your character is an alcoholic who has the power of heat vision and suffers from mild tremors. Your opponent is an immortal half-demon with heat resistance and mind control. How do you do it without going to the OOC to call them out?


You don't because that's fucking insane, and there's no reason that second character should ever exist.


Not to mention, pulling powers out your ass to solve conflict, like you're suggesting with "introduce supernatural power conflict", is a shitty thing to do and you will probably get yelled at for it.

 

[Bone2pick]

The character is there to deal with conflict. If it's an appropriate character for the setting, say an arch-angel in a demon slaying RP, then there's no issue.

 

[Xenonia]

This is why RP should never have inter-character conflict, because there are people who think that it's perfectly acceptable to solve it by pulling powers out your ass to beat the other guy.

 

[DrBones]

The issue here is that @Xenonia's laser-eyes alcoholic is entirely incapable of dealing with the threat posed by this invincible half-demon. It's a fundamental difference in power levels that plagues all supernatural RPs, because characters without flaws are almost uniformly ultrapowerful, and are thus unbeatable by more grounded, lower-powered characters.

 

[Bone2pick]

Not to mention, pulling powers out your ass to solve conflict, like you're suggesting with "introduce supernatural power conflict", is a shitty thing to do and you will probably get yelled at for it.

Interesting. Where is the GM in this scenario? Can they introduce appropriate conflict for the demon or would that be pulling powers out of their ass?

 

[Xenonia]

So if the GM isn't there you just have to sit in a quagmire of shit until they show up, then? Let people act like whiny children in OOC until big daddy GM shows up to solve problems? It shouldn't ever have to come to that.

 

[Bone2pick]

The issue here is that @Xenonia's laser-eyes alcoholic is entirely incapable of dealing with the threat posed by this invincible half-demon. It's a fundamental difference in power levels that plagues all supernatural RPs, because characters without flaws are almost uniformly ultrapowerful, and are thus unbeatable by more grounded, lower-powered characters.

Flaws don't determine power level, powers do. A little flawed human is less powerful than a heavier flawed angel/demon.

 

[Xenonia]

define heavier flawed. As in they have more flaws, their flaws are more serious, or their flaws affect them more?

 

[Bone2pick]

So if the GM isn't there you just have to sit in a quagmire of shit until they show up, then? Let people act like whiny children in OOC until big daddy GM shows up to solve problems? It shouldn't ever have to come to that.

No GM...whiny children...big daddy lol. What kind of RPs do you play?

 

[Xenonia]

The average kind.

 

[Bone2pick]

define heavier flawed. As in they have more flaws, their flaws are more serious, or their flaws affect them more?

Psychological trauma, limitations like the demon can only manifest at night, supernatural rituals it must adhere to, ect.

 

[DrBones]

Flaws don't determine power level, powers do. A little flawed human is less powerful than a heavier flawed angel/demon.

That's partially true. A character with lots of powers and lots of flaws (like Hal Jordan was before Geoff Johns) will maintain a relatively-moderate power level despite his powers, because his weaknesses are so readily available.


There are dozens of stories about an all-powerful demon/witch/king being defeated by a pathetic mortal because of the mortal abusing the demon's flaws. Without that flaw, the mortal would be SOL and the true hero of the story would have to be Superman to stand a chance.

 

[Xenonia]

Psychological Trauma? Like PTSD or like "I go crazy and kill everybody"?

 

[Bone2pick]

Psychological Trauma? Like PTSD or like "I go crazy and kill everybody"?

Berzerker rage could certainly be a flaw. PTSD obviously works. Going further you could delve into mental illness.


 

There are dozens of stories about an all-powerful demon/witch/king being defeated by a pathetic mortal because of the mortal abusing the demon's flaws. Without that flaw, the mortal would be SOL and the true hero of the story would have to be Superman to stand a chance.

Sure, that's perfectly understandable. If you build up a supernatural threat with enough powers it will become too tough for a mortal. Absolutely.

 

[Ixacise]

Berserking tends to be a shit weakness/flaw since the player will invariably use it as a pseudo Super Saiyan state where he manages to contain the rageboner long enough to let loose on the bad guy.

 

[DrBones]

Sure, that's perfectly understandable. If you build up a supernatural threat with enough powers it will become too tough for a mortal. Absolutely.

My post demonstrated that the antagonist can be as powerful as the writer wants. However, flaws will help balance them. Sauron was beaten by a pair of Hobbits and a proto-Hobbit because his weakness was the One Ring. Hastur is an Elder God, but is susceptible to summoning sickness and a hockey-rink full of explosives. GLaDOS has absolute control over an entire facility of deathtraps, but is confined by the mechanical constraints of the facility and her in-born need to conduct tests. Frieza was so powerful he needed three limiter forms to keep himself from obliterating everyone, but he was hampered by his childishness and crippling fear of the Legendary Super Saiyan.


A nice, flawed villain can be infinitely powerful, so long as the flaws round them out to their enemy's favor. This is how a conflict between characters of wildly-different power levels can still remain fun, active, and fair.

 

[Bone2pick]

A nice, flawed villain can be infinitely powerful, so long as the flaws round them out to their enemy's favor. This is how a conflict between characters of wildly-different power levels can still remain fun, active, and fair.

They can be, that's one type of story to tell. Another could be the villain is so powerful and threatening you need Superman to face him or else humanity is doomed. Some stories pit the big guns against the big guns. Whether one or the other is better depends on writer quality and reader preference.

 

[Xenonia]

That's not the nature of RP though, especially considering you shouldn't view RP as a versus scenario in general.

 

[Bone2pick]

That's not the nature of RP though, especially considering you shouldn't view RP as a versus scenario in general.

I certainly don't view RP as PVP.

 

[Ixacise]

Except that's not fun in freeforms when you have other players protagonists with wildly differing levels of potency. Unless everyone is on the same page and that's what the game is about otherwise it's stupid and just power wanky as hell. And don't even bother mentioning support as a work around because you know damn well people don't want to be relegated as support for the entirety of the story.

 

[Bone2pick]

Except that's not fun in freeforms when you have other players protagonists with wildly differing levels of potency.

Again, power level is not a heavily flawed versus hardly flawed issue. The flaw issue relates to mundane characters as well as all other characters.

 

[Ixacise]

Who said I was talking about flaws? I was merely addressing the flawed premise of what you suggested.

 

[Bone2pick]

Who said I was talking about flaws? I was merely addressing the flawed premise of what you suggested.

Then I still don't understand what you were addressing. What flawed premise?