building on bare bones campaigns
- Thread starter Jakk9000
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Jakk9000
Double Luck
I just cut it down to people and they are having a blast yay first time gm now I need to keep it going.
cyl
Creepy smile
Let us know if you need any more tips :wink:
Jakk9000
Double Luck
Thanks 
Jakk9000
Double Luck
I messed up slightly... I made to mean of a baddie... So I reset the combat and bumped his stats down. Any suggestions to make a fight where they all aren't ganging up on one fellow and fighting multiple people and so they don't end up to powerful? I did try to use the system mentioned earlier but to no avail.
You can pull the old "Final Fantasy Trick".
My players know I do it, and they love it. When it comes time for the 'boss' to die, simply don't kill him. If it's 5 on 1 make the battle last as long as you need/want it to.
The Trick is simple.
X Boss battle breaks out... he has 90,000hp. You win. Later The Boss comes to his senses and joins the party... he has 480hp, and you never bother putting him in the party because your comfortable with the people you have. Where did all that ass kicking power go that he tore you up with 6 hours ago? And you paid $60.00 for this crap?
Anyway...
For the sake of 'Boss' battles in Exalted my players know that if they end up with the 5 Solars on 1 (Insert Boss Type Here) scenario that all bets are off. When the PCs manage to 'kill' the Boss he/she/it doesn't die until everyone at the table feels it's ready for this epic chapter in the Exalt's Book of Victories to be closed.
Calculate the opponents HLs as normal and fight with everything you have. As long a single HL remains the PCs are in dire jeopardy, combat is brutal and lethal. Once they reduce the the opponents HLs to 0 (or a negative) simply keep going and apply whatever -die penalty you think is appropriate, and the continues to defend with whatever charms you feel are appropriate from an essence pool that's now practically limitless. Keep in mind though that the PCs have already technically won, so injuries that would normally result in death at this point are not fatal (but make damn sure they sound like it). Now, just wait for a dramatically appropriately moment to finish the villain off. Maybe a Solar unleashes a dazzling combo, or one of the heroes tackle him/her and they lose thier footing and fall int oa chasm of darkness, perhaps they choke on a cherry. It's up to you and the heroes. Have fun with it.
As a ST it's not you vs. the PCs. Our primary role within a story is keep ourselves and our players entertained and to work together to create a place where, if only for a little while, our minds can escape the hectic pace of reality.
My players know I do it, and they love it. When it comes time for the 'boss' to die, simply don't kill him. If it's 5 on 1 make the battle last as long as you need/want it to.
The Trick is simple.
X Boss battle breaks out... he has 90,000hp. You win. Later The Boss comes to his senses and joins the party... he has 480hp, and you never bother putting him in the party because your comfortable with the people you have. Where did all that ass kicking power go that he tore you up with 6 hours ago? And you paid $60.00 for this crap?
Anyway...
For the sake of 'Boss' battles in Exalted my players know that if they end up with the 5 Solars on 1 (Insert Boss Type Here) scenario that all bets are off. When the PCs manage to 'kill' the Boss he/she/it doesn't die until everyone at the table feels it's ready for this epic chapter in the Exalt's Book of Victories to be closed.
Calculate the opponents HLs as normal and fight with everything you have. As long a single HL remains the PCs are in dire jeopardy, combat is brutal and lethal. Once they reduce the the opponents HLs to 0 (or a negative) simply keep going and apply whatever -die penalty you think is appropriate, and the continues to defend with whatever charms you feel are appropriate from an essence pool that's now practically limitless. Keep in mind though that the PCs have already technically won, so injuries that would normally result in death at this point are not fatal (but make damn sure they sound like it). Now, just wait for a dramatically appropriately moment to finish the villain off. Maybe a Solar unleashes a dazzling combo, or one of the heroes tackle him/her and they lose thier footing and fall int oa chasm of darkness, perhaps they choke on a cherry. It's up to you and the heroes. Have fun with it.
As a ST it's not you vs. the PCs. Our primary role within a story is keep ourselves and our players entertained and to work together to create a place where, if only for a little while, our minds can escape the hectic pace of reality.
cyl
Creepy smile
Never underestimate the destructive power of the solars: they do kick ass !Jakk9000 said:
There's no such things as an "invincible characters". Even the MoW as stated in the corebook can technically be defeated by a trained circle with a little xp. So no need to be shy about your stats, the only thing you need for you baddy to stand more than 10 ticks is a good DV, some perfect defenses here and there a decent soak (so they can ping min damage), and a larger HL pool than the players.
And if you still have troubles, give him sidekicks (heroic mortal essence user level), this way your group won't think about going "big pile" on him and will have to focus on defense a bit more.
Plus since when do arc vilains travel without minions ?!
Jakk9000
Double Luck
he is a minor villain that's why he didn't have anyone.
cyl
Creepy smile
Not even mercs as bodyguards ?
Any guy who is classified as 'villain' status needs someone covering their ass. Play the "What Would I Do?" card.
If you were a villain, would you...
...ever let yourself be alone when you knew you could afford bodyguards?
...ever actually fight a losing battle when you know there is a possible escape?
...ever not have a Plan 'B' prepared?
...tell your enemy anything more than they needed to know?
...ever consider telling your enemy the truth?
If you were a villain, would you...
...ever let yourself be alone when you knew you could afford bodyguards?
...ever actually fight a losing battle when you know there is a possible escape?
...ever not have a Plan 'B' prepared?
...tell your enemy anything more than they needed to know?
...ever consider telling your enemy the truth?
Jakk9000
Double Luck
Any way to tell if a game is failing? I think my players won't tell me because they don't want to hurt my feelings.
Ker'ion
Primordial of Abstract Logic
One good sign is if the characters gamble a lot or otherwise waste quite a bit of time in game.
Jakk9000
Double Luck
Mostly the players will fight me on the fact that villains will kill them or not just because when I roll crappy and all of a sudden he rolls a hit then 3 10s on damage.
As a side note I am also becoming cross with the fact that they seem to think that all my villains want to kill them >.< Some one has to have a compassion 2 or more in the game...
Not to mention the fact that all the characters seem to gravitate to having a one compassion...
As a side note I am also becoming cross with the fact that they seem to think that all my villains want to kill them >.< Some one has to have a compassion 2 or more in the game...
Not to mention the fact that all the characters seem to gravitate to having a one compassion...
cyl
Creepy smile
That's because they're new to exalted, compassion can be percieved as an obligation of letting your opponent go while you should kill him, or helping the ones you don't really care about... while most of the time the other virtues are working for the characters.
And pcs have simple survival instincts: when attacked, it's life or death, there's no middle ground.
In those cases, I suggest you bring back some notion of honor or reputation, so their actions have a real impact on their surroundings and close friends...
But basically, if they still come to the sessions, they're still interested in the game, it's when they start being absent that you need to worry
And pcs have simple survival instincts: when attacked, it's life or death, there's no middle ground.
In those cases, I suggest you bring back some notion of honor or reputation, so their actions have a real impact on their surroundings and close friends...
But basically, if they still come to the sessions, they're still interested in the game, it's when they start being absent that you need to worry
Ledaal Kajiri
Two Thousand Club
And here I almost always play a 3 Compassion or better character. Yet...they can still fight just fine, when it is called for. A bit of Conviction or Valor can help there. Still, one of my favorite characters is a 5 Compassion 1 Conviction 2 Temperance 4 Valor Twilight combat medic. Bold as you please in a fight, dashing and heroic...but...always out to help people in trouble, with constant reason for action, and utterly unable to gather the spine to strike down a helpless foe or engage in harsh necessities. And there's nothing unenjoyable about such. Never really understood the draw to playing the Conviction and Valor focused character I so often hear about, with a Compassion of 1. Most such when described seem to lack direction, or focus or even...frankly a feeling of being epic at all...just coming across as a brutal thug with no direction or purpose...and frankly, not really deserving of Exaltation. Exalts are epic, whether heroes or villains. Not back alley thugs with no class, no style, and no purpose beyond survival and getting the shiny things. Can a low Compassion character be epic? Hell yes they can. But...it requires putting some real life in the character, and giving them a driving goal or motive to back their supposedly high Conviction. What's often really important, is what is the character's motivation? It doesn't need to be attainable, sometimes...things aren't. The aforementioned Twilight for example has a Motivation of Help all in need that I can, and make the world a better place. Sure, he's a naive twit who occasionally needs reminded of reality by his concubine Lunar mateJakk9000 said:
or their other friends and allies. But he has a goal. Peleps Deled has his own goals. Sure, when it comes down to it, even in a Realm based Dragonblooded story he's likely to come off as a heartless bastard and as much an antagonist as anything...but he has a goal and Motivation. Quite likely something along the lines of 'Crush all enemies of the faith and heretics beneath my foot, bask in the lamentations of their women and children and then slaughter them as well.' Exaltation doesn't require you to be nice. It does require you to be a cut above the common cloth.
cyl
Creepy smile
Though I mostly agree with what LK said, I just want to point out that sometimes, you need a bastard at your table.
I had a table from 2003 to 2007 with the highest compassion being 2, the guys were mercenaries, and cold blooded killers, but they get stuff done right and quick.
They killled a few rivals (among which kings of city states), kidnapped, blackmailed, poisoned, mugged and waged war on their ennemies and conquered the south of the Scavenger Lands in a few decades.
Depending on your style of STing, there ain't much room for ice creams and tea times.
But 2e introduced the social combat, so I guess now it's "easier" to gather allies to your cause than it was in 1e.
I had a table from 2003 to 2007 with the highest compassion being 2, the guys were mercenaries, and cold blooded killers, but they get stuff done right and quick.
They killled a few rivals (among which kings of city states), kidnapped, blackmailed, poisoned, mugged and waged war on their ennemies and conquered the south of the Scavenger Lands in a few decades.
Depending on your style of STing, there ain't much room for ice creams and tea times.
But 2e introduced the social combat, so I guess now it's "easier" to gather allies to your cause than it was in 1e.
Jakk9000
Double Luck
I guess my problem is I didn't expect so many "I wanna be a criminal/soldier with one compassion" characters.
cyl
Creepy smile
Bah. Don't worry, make up your mind with the kind of game you want to run with your players (rule number 1), and then run it.
If they want to become heroes of the people, they'll have to pay more attention to them, and if they pay attention to them, then you might advise them to raise their compassion. If they want to be merciless conquerors, then 1 compassion is okay, people will suffer, but hey, that's life...
If they want to become heroes of the people, they'll have to pay more attention to them, and if they pay attention to them, then you might advise them to raise their compassion. If they want to be merciless conquerors, then 1 compassion is okay, people will suffer, but hey, that's life...
Ledaal Kajiri
Two Thousand Club
Just don't be surprised when they all willingly give themselves over to the Deathlords or Yozi's for more power.cyl said:
cyl
Creepy smile
You couldn't be more right... 2 of my solars actually did that :mrgreen:
One because he knew he wouldn't survive against Walker, the other because he knew he couldn't save his friend without the help of the Walker (and because he was a power hungry bastard too).
But after 3 years of campaign, this was a "good" suprise for the others when they realized two of them had abandoned their faith and loyalty.
See, even with merciless cold blooded killers you can have some interesting RP :wink:
One because he knew he wouldn't survive against Walker, the other because he knew he couldn't save his friend without the help of the Walker (and because he was a power hungry bastard too).
But after 3 years of campaign, this was a "good" suprise for the others when they realized two of them had abandoned their faith and loyalty.
See, even with merciless cold blooded killers you can have some interesting RP :wink:
The zombie cat
Member
Glad you decided to make the sidereal a bad guy in the end. It is far to easy to use a sidereal to lead the party around by the nose and it gets boring after a few adventures, having him seem good and then have it all have been a evil scheme after a couple of adventures is good, with sidereals the evil scheme could even be good. I will use solars to disrupt death lord activity and hopefully get the solars killed in the process, opps they survived, well then I will have this big wild hunt kill them. Then the PCs have been used and can be upset about that but haven’t been used for something they need to hait themselves over.
As for bosses this early in the game, all mine are lutenents, if you met one of my bosses in the first 5 sessions you would want to keep your head, and that means not fighting immediately (its probably a death lord). Frequently the first sub boss would be a solo abysal, a solo assassin was used once and my vilans have a tendancy to order there retainers to cover their escape so when the PCs catch them half an hour down the road the vilin is on his own.
Another one I have been toying with for a long time is a boss battle with thousands of extras, starting declaration, the extras are primarily stunt fodder, any attack they make will miss, any time you attack one you kit and kill, but this is more for the high XP characters.
On knowing what your players really think, at the end of each session don’t ask them what they thought of the session, most people will be polite, ask them what they liked the best/worst, what they want to see more/less of and where the campaign is going, if they can give you a strong answer then your doing a good job.
I don’t fret when faced with compassion 2, that is normal human.
When its compassion one the question you want to ask is “what made you so insensitive, why don’t you care about anything†if they cant give you an answer then its probably not a good idea to let them have it. I have seen some great compassion 1 characters, one was close friends to a compassion 5 character, and he spent so much time being careful not to let the rest of the party know what happened in his lab.
As to your characters believing every enemy wants to kill them that shouldn’t be to hard to dissuade them of, outfit a bunch of dragon blooded or abysals with gormauls, have them approach the party with weapons slung and “invite†the party to see there master, wet there strength so the party will probably loose, if the party looses then they are only unconscious (gormaul is bashing damage) so they weak up in a cell being looked down on a nasty villain that wants there services and is willing to kidnap and intimidate them into doing his bidding, if the PCs win then in the looting they find the orders that specify that the PCs must be taken in alive, and threatens something unpleasant involving an apple corer and an Achilles tendon if they are irreparably harmed.
Edward
As for bosses this early in the game, all mine are lutenents, if you met one of my bosses in the first 5 sessions you would want to keep your head, and that means not fighting immediately (its probably a death lord). Frequently the first sub boss would be a solo abysal, a solo assassin was used once and my vilans have a tendancy to order there retainers to cover their escape so when the PCs catch them half an hour down the road the vilin is on his own.
Another one I have been toying with for a long time is a boss battle with thousands of extras, starting declaration, the extras are primarily stunt fodder, any attack they make will miss, any time you attack one you kit and kill, but this is more for the high XP characters.
On knowing what your players really think, at the end of each session don’t ask them what they thought of the session, most people will be polite, ask them what they liked the best/worst, what they want to see more/less of and where the campaign is going, if they can give you a strong answer then your doing a good job.
I don’t fret when faced with compassion 2, that is normal human.
When its compassion one the question you want to ask is “what made you so insensitive, why don’t you care about anything†if they cant give you an answer then its probably not a good idea to let them have it. I have seen some great compassion 1 characters, one was close friends to a compassion 5 character, and he spent so much time being careful not to let the rest of the party know what happened in his lab.
As to your characters believing every enemy wants to kill them that shouldn’t be to hard to dissuade them of, outfit a bunch of dragon blooded or abysals with gormauls, have them approach the party with weapons slung and “invite†the party to see there master, wet there strength so the party will probably loose, if the party looses then they are only unconscious (gormaul is bashing damage) so they weak up in a cell being looked down on a nasty villain that wants there services and is willing to kidnap and intimidate them into doing his bidding, if the PCs win then in the looting they find the orders that specify that the PCs must be taken in alive, and threatens something unpleasant involving an apple corer and an Achilles tendon if they are irreparably harmed.
Edward
StarHawk
Member
Also, about the compassion. I've been a staunch believer in, if you don't want complete jerks require a compassion of 2. Then you can't have characters say "I don't care if this person dies, I have compassion 1" Compassion 2 still doesn't mean they really care, just means the player won't have the excuse of the low compassion. I find compassion fun for some characters. Some of my favorite characters had high compassion. I do not recommend compassion for Lunars as it prevents them from obtaining a secondary human form, but we're not all perfect
The zombie cat
Member
Well compassion 2 doesn’t restrict lunar shape acquisition; a virtue has to be at least 3 before it needs to be cheeked.StarHawk said:Also, about the compassion. I've been a staunch believer in, if you don't want complete jerks require a compassion of 2. Then you can't have characters say "I don't care if this person dies, I have compassion 1" Compassion 2 still doesn't mean they really care, just means the player won't have the excuse of the low compassion. I find compassion fun for some characters. Some of my favorite characters had high compassion. I do not recommend compassion for Lunars as it prevents them from obtaining a secondary human form, but we're not all perfect
Compassion 2, normal person that can cope with killing (most western armies) perfectly acceptable PC, no mechanical restriction in character behavior, expectation of caring about the fait of innocents but not of interfering
Compassion 1, sociopaths, acceptable PC only with good concept, no mechanical restriction on character behavior, expectation of not caring about innocents,
Dracogryff
One Thousand Club
Naw...that's what makes it fun! And besides. Just get Compassionate Mirror Nature (DotFA: Lords of Creation p. 68) and you don't have to worry about that pesky issue.StarHawk said:Also, about the compassion. I've been a staunch believer in, if you don't want complete jerks require a compassion of 2. Then you can't have characters say "I don't care if this person dies, I have compassion 1" Compassion 2 still doesn't mean they really care, just means the player won't have the excuse of the low compassion. I find compassion fun for some characters. Some of my favorite characters had high compassion. I do not recommend compassion for Lunars as it prevents them from obtaining a secondary human form, but we're not all perfect
Admittedly, I'm still trying to figure out why Courtesan's Possession (getting a human form via sex) requires Perception instead of a social stat... O.oAh well.
cyl
Creepy smile
Well to note the physical traits of the person of course, you dirty stalker ^^
