Jukashi
Four Thousand Club
... I don't get it.
Bringing Down the Reign of the Dragon-Blooded
- Thread starter Skari-dono
- Start date
Cthulhu_Wakes
Black Sun in a White World
I edited it 
Hit the wrong button when typing.
Hit the wrong button when typing.
Jukashi
Four Thousand Club
First' date=' I believe in all seriousness, that Essence 10 doesn't exist amongst the Lunars. Here's why: NO Exalts, (The DLs AREN'T Exalts) have Essence 10 aside Kejak. I'll take that Leviathan may have it, but he doesn't do shit but float.[/quote']
All that is required for an Exalt to have Essence of nine or over is to live more than a thousand years; that's easy for Lunars, they have tons of people that old. Now, if Kejak has Essence 10, there's going to be a Lunar-probably more than one- with Essence 10. Essence 10, as I see it, requires an Exalt to completely and perfectly master both their own Essence and the nature of Essence in general. Now, Kejak probably has Essence 10 from being the biggest baddest kung-fu master there is.
Lunars, you are no doubt thinking, are not baddass kung-fu masters. But 2 out of three ain't bad. Lunars are not the greatest martial artists in the world; they cannot transcend their primal connection to the world and themselves in order to practise sidereal-level martial arts.
Thing is, as has been pointed out to me: they don't need to. Notice a phrase in that last paragraph: "their primal connection to the world and themselves".
Lunars, by their nature, are more in tune not only with the Essence of their souls and shards, but with the essence of their bodies and that of the world around them (they have Charms that allow them to change the shape of things around them). They have an innate understanding of such Essence, an instinctual understanding which other Exalts do not possess; and they can refine this connection with the rationality of their human side.
If anything, I would consider Lunars to have an easier time reaching Essence 10 than other Exalts. And even if not, there are Lunars who have lived just as long as Kejak, and there are three times as many of them than Sidereals. Chance dictates that there will be at least a few Essence 10 Lunars.
NO' date=' repeat NO Solar or DB would ever follow the Pact, I support this with the fact that there are no cults as such following the Lunars. Almost all of the people (this includes Solars and DBs regard them as mindless barbarians. Even Swan who is married to one doesn't think terribly high of her).[/quote']
Do you forget? Solars can do anything! The only thing that could prevent them, as a group, from joining the Lunars is their past life memories and their urge to rebuild civilisation. But alas, the Solars are young, and Lunars are naturally Charismatic. Solars are not the only ones with social Charms, though Lunars get fewer of them. I would say there are plenty of Solars out there disgusted enough with the decadance of civilisation- in the First Age as well as that of the modern, for you must remember that the Solars do not innately follow the same path as their previous incarnations- that they can be pursuaded to join with the Lunars. The Lunars will train them and teach them and be their allies and lovers, and though they will use the Solars for their own ends, at least they'll mostly be honest about it.
As for DBs, these will of course be Outcastes, not Dynasts (who will all be killed). There are DBs out there who are more in tune with the barbarian lifestyle, and whhy wouldn't there be? The Dragon-Blooded also have a deep and primal connection to the world beyond human affairs, such is their nature. If it were not for the civilisation that was built up around them and indoctrinated into them, they would be natural allies of the Lunar Exalted. What better symbiosis is there than between the beasts and the elements of the enviroment in which they live?
The Imperial Manse won't accept a Lunar commander. Why? The thing IS alive. I bet they'd rather fight to the death than see someone else take over the fucking thing. Seriously now' date=' shapeshifting to try and decieve them? I wouldn't buy it if they did. The Empress was meant to find that thing from some 'divine' ordinance. To which I have no answer as to why she got in it.[/quote']
The Imperial Manse was designed to be used by the Solar Exalted, the main weapon they possessed against the enemies of the world. That is the purpose of the Imperial Manse, and I would say that it and its gods do what they can to fulfill that purpose- as spirits all do. With the Solars gone, the Imperial Manse went to the Shogunate, and the Lunars had no chance to reclaim it. With the Contagion, the Lunars might have had a chance, but they were too busy fighting both the disease and the Fair Folk. So, it came to the Empress' hands, and still the Lunars have had no opportunity to take it.
I believe that the builders of the Manse would have been smart enough to plan for the event that there would be no Solars to direct it. But who then would it default to? I imagine that in the case of there being no solars, the Manse would accept a Lunar (or Sidereal) before any other, and would only deign to allow itself to be controlled by a Terrestrial if there was no other choice- which there hasn't, because the Sidereals plot and scheme in Heaven, not allowing themselves to be so visible as the Manse's controller would be, and the Lunars have never had opportunity to try.
Until now!
Sure you wanna kill them all? You be starting a new realm with a Lunar Wyld Hunt' date=' whoop de fuckin' do. Seriously, your rose tinted sights on a Lunar overtake of canon is laughable. LAUGHABLE I say!!! Â[/quote']
As I said, the Lunars can bring Creation around to their side, though it be difficult and take many centuries. But the thing is...
Lunars are really, really good at killing things.
Cthulhu_Wakes
Black Sun in a White World
Before I find the cognition to write a rebuttal...all Exalts are good at killing things, and I can guarantee Abyssals are better at it than even the SavagesSure you wanna kill them all? You be starting a new realm with a Lunar Wyld Hunt' date=' whoop de fuckin' do. Seriously, your rose tinted sights on a Lunar overtake of canon is laughable. LAUGHABLE I say!!! ÂÂ
As I said, the Lunars can bring Creation around to their side, though it be difficult and take many centuries. But the thing is...
Lunars are really, really good at killing things.
Jukashi
Four Thousand Club
Well DUH. They're designed for, like, NOTHING ELSE.
I never said the Lunars were best.
They're second best.
Which is why the other exalts will have to team up with them!
I never said the Lunars were best.
They're second best.
Which is why the other exalts will have to team up with them!
Sherwood
Luna's Concubine
If my players came up to me and said that they are on the way to take down the Empire, I say fine. Â They just need to remember that the Empire is a massive juggernaut of firepower and might. Â A frontal attack, even if made by a powerful mixed circle, would only result in making new characters.
But if you do some empire building somewhere else, raise an army, make alliances, get the backing of some powerful spirits, you could have a chance. Â Or, some political work by making deals with the leaders of one house to put them in a position of power, get them to feed false info to the Dynasts, get intel on troop movements, and it could be done.
If played right, it would be a cast-iron bitch to do; taking months if not years of play time. Â But I would love to see it tried. Â Even if they failed, it would change the world and be one hell of a game.
But if you do some empire building somewhere else, raise an army, make alliances, get the backing of some powerful spirits, you could have a chance. Â Or, some political work by making deals with the leaders of one house to put them in a position of power, get them to feed false info to the Dynasts, get intel on troop movements, and it could be done.
If played right, it would be a cast-iron bitch to do; taking months if not years of play time. Â But I would love to see it tried. Â Even if they failed, it would change the world and be one hell of a game.
Cthulhu_Wakes
Black Sun in a White World
My PCs did it once, and at the end, the Isle was a complete ruin, through mostly not all their means. Imperial Mountain was rubble, Imperial City a smoldering ruin. Half the Isle's fields and cities were burned, almost it's whole population dead.
THAT is what it took to bring it down in my game. Not to mention the plague still ravaging the lands...
THAT is what it took to bring it down in my game. Not to mention the plague still ravaging the lands...
Sherwood
Luna's Concubine
Heh. Â Plauges are cool.
Flagg
The Most Electrifying Man in Sports Entertainment
Que?
-S
A tip.
If you should need to dodge the "The fair folk, Death lords, Â and lunars will press in" BS heres an idea.
when their coming in... the fair folk, lunars, and death lords encounter EACH OTHER before they encounter the solars.
and WHAM
Destroy each other so much their no threat to the solars.
A little improbable to be sure... but no more so then the empress entering the imperial manse.
Heres an issue I've brought up several times before though.
assuming even ideal circumstances... Â (e.g. no major Deathlord, lunar, Fairfolk, or threshold attacks)the solar will have a lot of people who minds are still bent by the foul yoke of the immaculate order.
The solars will then have to either spend a lot of  time and effort using charms to heal the people from the hideous spiritual abuse the Immaculate dogs have done them, or else suffer from terrorist attacks for quite a while from the poor abused children.
If you should need to dodge the "The fair folk, Death lords, Â and lunars will press in" BS heres an idea.
when their coming in... the fair folk, lunars, and death lords encounter EACH OTHER before they encounter the solars.
and WHAM
Destroy each other so much their no threat to the solars.
A little improbable to be sure... but no more so then the empress entering the imperial manse.
Heres an issue I've brought up several times before though.
assuming even ideal circumstances... Â (e.g. no major Deathlord, lunar, Fairfolk, or threshold attacks)the solar will have a lot of people who minds are still bent by the foul yoke of the immaculate order.
The solars will then have to either spend a lot of  time and effort using charms to heal the people from the hideous spiritual abuse the Immaculate dogs have done them, or else suffer from terrorist attacks for quite a while from the poor abused children.
Cthulhu_Wakes
Black Sun in a White World
Yeah...the Emperor of the time had rebuilt parts of Meru. Well, my PCs made a 'genius' pact with the DLs, so they built a super behemoth. Much like the one that shattered the Prison. It got nuked on the Mountain when the Defense Grid was taken over. The top of the mountain, about twenty miles of rock shattered and went toppling ot the country side and other parts were destroyed by fighting going on.
Jukashi
Four Thousand Club
It's not exactly a foul yoke, and they're not really abused.
Cthulhu_Wakes
Black Sun in a White World
So the Solars were lead to believe they're God's Gift to the world because their masters were covetous bastards who didn't like helping Daddy anymore. What's your point?
Jukashi
Four Thousand Club
The only thing that's actually false about it is the "Terrestrials are Teh BETS!!" bits. The rest is mostly pretty spot-on.
Cthulhu_Wakes
Black Sun in a White World
He's got ya there.
one mroe thing...
if the realm WAS weakened enough that a single circle of newly exalted solars could trash it... it owuld have allready been trashed by someone else... even I know that... and im generally AGAINST the "when the solars are through someone else steps in" Idea.
if the realm WAS weakened enough that a single circle of newly exalted solars could trash it... it owuld have allready been trashed by someone else... even I know that... and im generally AGAINST the "when the solars are through someone else steps in" Idea.
Cthulhu_Wakes
Black Sun in a White World
You are clad in Solar fandom my friend.
Jakk Bey
One Thousand Club
If the Solars were sneaky. If the Solars were political. If they were very nasty and underhanded, they could do a number on the Realm and the Blessed Isle.
But they would have to be just scary in their planning and plotting.
First step: Intelligence. Gathering thereof. Â Not just military targets and such, but who is into what, and with whom. Â Dig up all the dirty secrets. Â That means "hacking" the Realm's own intelligence gathering, without anyone else finding out.
Couple of ways to do it. Â Sorcery and the help of Gods. Â Large and small. Â
Second step: Call in not just a few favors from the Heavens. See the first step.
Who's pissed of which Gods, who is in debt to which Gods. Who has ignored which Gods. Â Which Gods would benefit from a change in power. Â Which Gods would want things to remain the same, and who they owe allegience and favors to. Â
Third step: The Heptagram has be cracked. Â Not just information, but thoroughly gutted. Â Ruined. Â Every DB Sorcerer on the Isle has to be brought not just down, but so much so, that they have to swear allegience or be wrecked for a couple of incarnations. Those who aren't destroyed, are co-opted. Â Setting this up is key, before any real coup can take place. Â
Fourth step: Solar cults. Have to be put into place. And taught. And their people have to remain secret and put into places where they'll do some good. This could take a generation or two. Â Solars should have the time though. Â In the meantime, you're still getting the Heptagram set up for a major fall--which will deprive every single House of their most potent weapons against the Solars. Â Solar cultists are a part of that, as agents who can get into and out of each House to help enact their plan.
Fifth step: Allies must be made outside the Realm. To take the heat off the folks on the Isle. While the Dragons are looking outside their borders for threats, and dealing with upstarts, they aren't focusing on what's going on under their noses. Â This may mean convincing a few Solars and their allies to "losing" a couple of battles, giving ground here and there to convince the DBs that they're winning, and commit even more forces to running the Solars down. Â Let them overextend themselves.
Sixth step: Congruent with steps 2, 3, 4 and 5. Â Recruit DB allies. This will take a while. Â This will take a few Mortal generations--while still getting the goods on the Heptagram, and keeping all the dirt the Solars can get on the Dynasts. Â Convincing members of the Dynats that the Realm would be better off without the corrupt and ineffective goverance, is key. Â The Solars will need their DB commanders once the power shifts. Â It will be a delicate process and it will be the one step where the Solars will have to reveal themselves, so they'll have to be sure before they do so which way the Dynast will go, or they don't reveal themselves. Period.
Seventh step: The Solars will have to make allies outside the Realm. Â Not to commit forces against the Realm, but to keep them from attacking once power shifts. Â Solar allies should already be taking care of this, but some folks, like the Lintha, the Guild, the Scavenger Lands, all have to be aware that shit is about to hit the fan, and that if they use the opportunity to get a little of the banquet, that it's going to choke them to death. Â The Guild especially. Â The Guild has to know that the Solars intend to keep business running, and if they interfere, that they will get cut off and destroyed. Â Cue the assassins. Â Cue the Solar cultists. Â Cue every dirty trick in the book. Â Use that Solar Sorcery and all the nasty thing that the Solars learned in their earlier intelligence. Â
Eighth step: Figure out the damn Defense Grid. Â It's designed for Solars. They need to be able to get in and take that shit over. Â They don't have to do it right off the bat, but they need to figure out how to do so.
Ninth step: Hit the Dynasts everywhere at once. Â Heptagram goes down. Cultists rise up and kill Dynasts in their sleep. Â The Guild closes up shop. Â The Solar allies outside the Realm turn and crush their pursuers' over extended lines. Â Dragon Blooded allies suddenly turn and take control of key areas, capturing as much of the Realm as possible for the new masters. Â The Defense Grid gets turned on the DB forces that don't lay their arms down. Â All the Houses take losses from cultists, turncoats, and Sorcerers who have been co-opted. Gods do their part as well, miracles occur with startling regularity where Solars are concerned and once again the Mandate of Heaven is restored--and Gods keep showing up to show their support. Â The common folk can be amazed, or just cowed, but the whole blitz is designed to keep them off the streets and out of the fight. Â Hearth sprits warn Mortals to keep the hell out of the affairs of the Gods, and this is exactly what it will be. Â Solars as demigods rolling up ontheir wayward charges. Â
Once the smoke clears, the Defense Grid is set to repell any odd Fae who might think of taking advantage of the situation, as well as targeting the Lintha and any other critters the Solars might want to remind that there are new sherrifs in the Realm--I'm looking at you Mask of Winters, yes you--then it's to the business of getting their Solar allies into the Realm to get things put into order again. Â Not with the granting of titles and land, but with duties and charges on who's responsible for doing what. Â
Like getting the Heptagram and schools of Sorcery back in order. Of getting the military on track. Â Of getting shipping and industry back in line. In policing the Realm and the Guild. Â Of taking care of bandits and crime. Â Food distribution. Â Medicine. It's going to be long, boring, and tedious affairs to get the Realm back in order, but if that's what the Solars want, that's what they have to deal with, and that includes getting the Realm right with the Heavens again.
If your players can follow that sort of skullduggery and long term planning, they might not get their butts handed to them. Â But it's not a quick game to do so, and they need to know that. Â If they reveal their hand too soon, and don't get all the elements in place, then they deserve the smackdown they get...
But they would have to be just scary in their planning and plotting.
First step: Intelligence. Gathering thereof. Â Not just military targets and such, but who is into what, and with whom. Â Dig up all the dirty secrets. Â That means "hacking" the Realm's own intelligence gathering, without anyone else finding out.
Couple of ways to do it. Â Sorcery and the help of Gods. Â Large and small. Â
Second step: Call in not just a few favors from the Heavens. See the first step.
Who's pissed of which Gods, who is in debt to which Gods. Who has ignored which Gods. Â Which Gods would benefit from a change in power. Â Which Gods would want things to remain the same, and who they owe allegience and favors to. Â
Third step: The Heptagram has be cracked. Â Not just information, but thoroughly gutted. Â Ruined. Â Every DB Sorcerer on the Isle has to be brought not just down, but so much so, that they have to swear allegience or be wrecked for a couple of incarnations. Those who aren't destroyed, are co-opted. Â Setting this up is key, before any real coup can take place. Â
Fourth step: Solar cults. Have to be put into place. And taught. And their people have to remain secret and put into places where they'll do some good. This could take a generation or two. Â Solars should have the time though. Â In the meantime, you're still getting the Heptagram set up for a major fall--which will deprive every single House of their most potent weapons against the Solars. Â Solar cultists are a part of that, as agents who can get into and out of each House to help enact their plan.
Fifth step: Allies must be made outside the Realm. To take the heat off the folks on the Isle. While the Dragons are looking outside their borders for threats, and dealing with upstarts, they aren't focusing on what's going on under their noses. Â This may mean convincing a few Solars and their allies to "losing" a couple of battles, giving ground here and there to convince the DBs that they're winning, and commit even more forces to running the Solars down. Â Let them overextend themselves.
Sixth step: Congruent with steps 2, 3, 4 and 5. Â Recruit DB allies. This will take a while. Â This will take a few Mortal generations--while still getting the goods on the Heptagram, and keeping all the dirt the Solars can get on the Dynasts. Â Convincing members of the Dynats that the Realm would be better off without the corrupt and ineffective goverance, is key. Â The Solars will need their DB commanders once the power shifts. Â It will be a delicate process and it will be the one step where the Solars will have to reveal themselves, so they'll have to be sure before they do so which way the Dynast will go, or they don't reveal themselves. Period.
Seventh step: The Solars will have to make allies outside the Realm. Â Not to commit forces against the Realm, but to keep them from attacking once power shifts. Â Solar allies should already be taking care of this, but some folks, like the Lintha, the Guild, the Scavenger Lands, all have to be aware that shit is about to hit the fan, and that if they use the opportunity to get a little of the banquet, that it's going to choke them to death. Â The Guild especially. Â The Guild has to know that the Solars intend to keep business running, and if they interfere, that they will get cut off and destroyed. Â Cue the assassins. Â Cue the Solar cultists. Â Cue every dirty trick in the book. Â Use that Solar Sorcery and all the nasty thing that the Solars learned in their earlier intelligence. Â
Eighth step: Figure out the damn Defense Grid. Â It's designed for Solars. They need to be able to get in and take that shit over. Â They don't have to do it right off the bat, but they need to figure out how to do so.
Ninth step: Hit the Dynasts everywhere at once. Â Heptagram goes down. Cultists rise up and kill Dynasts in their sleep. Â The Guild closes up shop. Â The Solar allies outside the Realm turn and crush their pursuers' over extended lines. Â Dragon Blooded allies suddenly turn and take control of key areas, capturing as much of the Realm as possible for the new masters. Â The Defense Grid gets turned on the DB forces that don't lay their arms down. Â All the Houses take losses from cultists, turncoats, and Sorcerers who have been co-opted. Gods do their part as well, miracles occur with startling regularity where Solars are concerned and once again the Mandate of Heaven is restored--and Gods keep showing up to show their support. Â The common folk can be amazed, or just cowed, but the whole blitz is designed to keep them off the streets and out of the fight. Â Hearth sprits warn Mortals to keep the hell out of the affairs of the Gods, and this is exactly what it will be. Â Solars as demigods rolling up ontheir wayward charges. Â
Once the smoke clears, the Defense Grid is set to repell any odd Fae who might think of taking advantage of the situation, as well as targeting the Lintha and any other critters the Solars might want to remind that there are new sherrifs in the Realm--I'm looking at you Mask of Winters, yes you--then it's to the business of getting their Solar allies into the Realm to get things put into order again. Â Not with the granting of titles and land, but with duties and charges on who's responsible for doing what. Â
Like getting the Heptagram and schools of Sorcery back in order. Of getting the military on track. Â Of getting shipping and industry back in line. In policing the Realm and the Guild. Â Of taking care of bandits and crime. Â Food distribution. Â Medicine. It's going to be long, boring, and tedious affairs to get the Realm back in order, but if that's what the Solars want, that's what they have to deal with, and that includes getting the Realm right with the Heavens again.
If your players can follow that sort of skullduggery and long term planning, they might not get their butts handed to them. Â But it's not a quick game to do so, and they need to know that. Â If they reveal their hand too soon, and don't get all the elements in place, then they deserve the smackdown they get...
The Scorp
Senior Member
Jakk Bey's 9 easy steps to ruling Creation. Â On Sale NOW for only 4 easy payments of $24.99. Â BUT WAIT! Â Call now and we'll drop off the last payment! Â That's 3 easy payments of just $24.99. Â No Solar should be without it! Call Now!
Sherwood
Luna's Concubine
That is such a deal, send me two! Â Just put the bill on the Empresses' credit cards. Â She won't mind....
Jakk Bey
One Thousand Club
Lieger Enterprises.
What can we do for you today?
What can we do for you today?
LOL
an issue.
The solar cults... keeping them COMPLETELY hidden will be difficult.
it might be best... to try disguising what their preaching as nothing but a "thumb the nose at the dragon blooded" reaction, to the dynasty, in case any one finds out.
that way, they can expect persectuion but their destruction wont become Priority one.
an issue.
The solar cults... keeping them COMPLETELY hidden will be difficult.
it might be best... to try disguising what their preaching as nothing but a "thumb the nose at the dragon blooded" reaction, to the dynasty, in case any one finds out.
that way, they can expect persectuion but their destruction wont become Priority one.
Sherwood
Luna's Concubine
What is the old saying? Â The squeeky wheel gets the grease. Â If you want to build your Solar cult and live to tell about it, dont squeek.
