Sherwood
Luna's Concubine
Yup. Since Wolf said that Nivirea would not object to Luna taking the circlet, I remembered you said that I could tweak my post.
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At the Adventurers' Table: Chapter Fourteen
- Thread starter Purr
- Start date
- Status
Purr
Kaerri's Man. =)
Yep. And the characters are definitely displaying their proper alignments. I have some dice to roll. Good luck to Luna.
Sherwood
Luna's Concubine
If we live through this, we will have gone quite a distance in our journey for our next level.
Wolf Rawrrr
Wolf-Knight
Hm? What makes you say that?
Purr
Kaerri's Man. =)
Sherwood, I see you and I are thinking along the same lines again. It makes me wonder if it's a Dungeon Master thing. =)
Captain Hesperus
Kaerri
Psychie
Sherwood
Heya Gang!
Nivirea is again attempting to use her Deception Skill on the Wayward Wanderers, this time with the Mad Giant present and included. You have options:
1. Forego your character's Sense Motive Skill check and declare that your character believes Nivirea. No dice roll necessary.
2. Declare you would like to roll your character's Sense Motive check against Nivirea's Deception roll. Given Nivirea's earlier suspicious activity (+2) and her Failure on trying to Lie just moments ago (+4), any PCs making this attempt will do so at +6 bonus to the die roll.
3. Given these very unusual circumstances, I will also allow each of you to provide an argument on whether they believe or do not believe Nivirea's statements. if your argument is solid, you need not make a Sense Motive roll (basically the same as 1. if your character believes her). If it isn't, you may still choose the previous options.
Please let me know soon (while all of this is still fresh in my head). =)
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Captain Hesperus
Kaerri
Psychie
Sherwood
Heya Gang!
Nivirea is again attempting to use her Deception Skill on the Wayward Wanderers, this time with the Mad Giant present and included. You have options:
1. Forego your character's Sense Motive Skill check and declare that your character believes Nivirea. No dice roll necessary.
2. Declare you would like to roll your character's Sense Motive check against Nivirea's Deception roll. Given Nivirea's earlier suspicious activity (+2) and her Failure on trying to Lie just moments ago (+4), any PCs making this attempt will do so at +6 bonus to the die roll.
3. Given these very unusual circumstances, I will also allow each of you to provide an argument on whether they believe or do not believe Nivirea's statements. if your argument is solid, you need not make a Sense Motive roll (basically the same as 1. if your character believes her). If it isn't, you may still choose the previous options.
Please let me know soon (while all of this is still fresh in my head). =)
Purr
Kaerri's Man. =)
And before I forget, I have to hand it to Wolf!
Wolf Rawrrr
For a guy who has never roleplayed in a tabletop game, Wolf, you are doing a fantastic job of keeping the in-game and the out-of-game completely separate! That's not always easy to do, man. Good going! =)
Wolf Rawrrr
For a guy who has never roleplayed in a tabletop game, Wolf, you are doing a fantastic job of keeping the in-game and the out-of-game completely separate! That's not always easy to do, man. Good going! =)
Wolf Rawrrr
Wolf-Knight
Thank you for noticing that *woof* 
I just hope the dice don't screw me over this time. Because given the Mad Giant's current disposition towards Nivirea, if he realizes that she's also the one who took his shiny AND then attempted to deceive him on top of it... I'm pretty sure she's dead. Or maybe we'll have to fake her death, but either way I don't see him calming down until he thinks she's dead if it comes to this lol. Talk about things going south... Or should I say, curiosity killing the cat eh *whine*
I just hope the dice don't screw me over this time. Because given the Mad Giant's current disposition towards Nivirea, if he realizes that she's also the one who took his shiny AND then attempted to deceive him on top of it... I'm pretty sure she's dead. Or maybe we'll have to fake her death, but either way I don't see him calming down until he thinks she's dead if it comes to this lol. Talk about things going south... Or should I say, curiosity killing the cat eh *whine*
Captain Hesperus
Harbinger of the End Times and Apostle of Ghan
In Otiorin’s case, I think the phrase “You can’t kid a kidder“ is appropriate. He knows how to embellish the truth and even how to fabricate it from whole cloth in a convincing manner. Given what Nivirea has said previously, and the wholly suspicious and entirely coincidental appearance of both Mad Giant and Missing Circlet, I feel that Oti’s latent ’storytelling’ senses are likely to tingle.
Captain Hesperus
Captain Hesperus
Sherwood
Luna's Concubine
Luna is also rather suspicious of Nivirea's convenient discovery of the circlet, especially since it emits a glow; it is hardly something easily misplaced with that effect going on. Combine that with the earlier belief that Nivirea was not being truthful, and Luna has a few questions to ask her.
Psychie
Princess Psychie
Oreleth will also use her Sense Motives roll to try and determine if Nivirea is telling a fib.
Kaerri
Dannigan's Lady
Given the conflicting statements she's been making ever since she ran back to the party with Mad (and angry) Giant in hot pursuit, Bren has reached a point where he can no longer automatically believe anything Nivirea says and is instead suspicious of whatever comes out of her mouth, especially if it sounds like an excuse. It's a most uncomfortable and unnatural state for him to be in, particularly with a party member (i.e., someone he's supposed to be able to trust with his life) but Nivirea has been rapidly forfeiting that trust by her own words and actions. It's not just (or even mainly) the bad dice rolls, it's the fact that she's changed her story several times, sometimes in the same breath, and has been not only trying to deceive someone she might conceivably see as an enemy but the rest of us as well.
Captain Hesperus
Harbinger of the End Times and Apostle of Ghan
So the general consensus here is: No Trust, not now.
Captain Hesperus
Captain Hesperus
Purr
Kaerri's Man. =)
(bold mine)
Psychie
So far, she'd be the first. I'm convinced from everyone else's statements that they need not roll. Perhaps read my statement again? I'm not certain it was understood (and I have to jet or I'd explain it now, but I will later if you'd like!). =)
Sherwood
Luna's Concubine
I am thinking that the statement should have said, "Also, I would like to make a Sense Motives roll." At least, that is how it sounded to me.
Purr
Kaerri's Man. =)
That's true, Sherwood! Maybe I could have described what I wanted better.
It's like this: if your character strongly believes or does not believe Nivirea, say so and give me an argument as to why (as you, Kaerri, and Cap'n have). If your character is undecided, that calls for a Sense Motive check. =)
To have an argument and want a roll after that does not make sense to me. but maybe Psychie has something in her head that I didn't see coming. Only she can say how Oreleth feels about it.
It's like this: if your character strongly believes or does not believe Nivirea, say so and give me an argument as to why (as you, Kaerri, and Cap'n have). If your character is undecided, that calls for a Sense Motive check. =)
To have an argument and want a roll after that does not make sense to me. but maybe Psychie has something in her head that I didn't see coming. Only she can say how Oreleth feels about it.
Kaerri
Dannigan's Lady
I was undecided personally whether Bren strongly believed or did not believe, but Dann convinced me to explain how my character felt and let him, as GM, decide whether the roll was needed or not.
Wolf Rawrrr
Wolf-Knight
Now wait just a minute... It's true that the Wanderers caught Nivirea lying about finding the trinket versus stealing it, but what's all this about conflicting statements and changing stories multiple times? It's only happened once according to my count, so if Bren or anyone else have reached a point where they are automatically going to assume Nivirea is lying every time she makes a statement, I daresay that's the quickest reaching of anything that I've ever seen lol 
1) She shows up and immediately admits that she's stolen something from the giant
2) Bria suggests that perhaps the stolen item, "the sleepies" isn't physical, but a figure of speech
3) Nivirea changes her mind and agrees with Bria, now claiming that she hasn't really stolen anything
4) As soon as it becomes obvious that the stolen item is linked to the giant's problem after all,
The way I see it, she lied once to the group, and now she's just repeating the same lie to the giant. I suppose her claiming to have found the item in the tunnel could technically be seen as a second lie, but in my opinion it's more like an extension of the first. Still seems like an awful big deal over one incident, and I protest that it's being referred to as multiple changing stories as if she'd been spinning webs all day. I can't deny the serious consequences of that single incident, but honestly who could have predicted them lol? *woof*
Also consider that Nivirea can't very well lie to the Mad Giant without technically lying to the party at the same time. They are within hearing range, after all. Whatever she tells him, and she'd probably tell him whatever it took to save herself, it doesn't mean that she can't say otherwise to the group later.
Just thinking out loud here! And assuming that there is such a thing as later for Nivirea *whine*
1) She shows up and immediately admits that she's stolen something from the giant
2) Bria suggests that perhaps the stolen item, "the sleepies" isn't physical, but a figure of speech
3) Nivirea changes her mind and agrees with Bria, now claiming that she hasn't really stolen anything
4) As soon as it becomes obvious that the stolen item is linked to the giant's problem after all,
Nivirea tries to return it right away, though she still maintains that she's found it rather than stolen it.
The way I see it, she lied once to the group, and now she's just repeating the same lie to the giant. I suppose her claiming to have found the item in the tunnel could technically be seen as a second lie, but in my opinion it's more like an extension of the first. Still seems like an awful big deal over one incident, and I protest that it's being referred to as multiple changing stories as if she'd been spinning webs all day. I can't deny the serious consequences of that single incident, but honestly who could have predicted them lol? *woof*
Also consider that Nivirea can't very well lie to the Mad Giant without technically lying to the party at the same time. They are within hearing range, after all. Whatever she tells him, and she'd probably tell him whatever it took to save herself, it doesn't mean that she can't say otherwise to the group later.
Just thinking out loud here! And assuming that there is such a thing as later for Nivirea *whine*
Psychie
Princess Psychie
I must have misunderstood what you wanted. I thought that if we did not believe the story that Nivirea was telling us, we had to declare that we were making a Sense Motives roll. Oreleth does not buy the 'I just found it' story. Sorry for any confusion.(bold mine)
Purr
Kaerri's Man. =)
(Ellipsis mine)
Wolf Rawrrr
Heya Wolf! While you make some valid points, I have not read anyone saying this. I think you may be exaggerating. Could you quote where you read this?I believe Cap'n summed up the party's feelings best. Here is his quote:
You may be reading this as No Trust, not ever. Am I missing something? As always, I want us all on the same page.
That's the only thing I wanted to point out here. The rest of this should be discussed among your fellow PCs. =)
Psychie
Princess Psychie
For my own self, if Nivirea can give us a good, honest reason for her trying to take the circlet, that would go a long distance for me to restore the trust that has been lost. It is just up to Nivirea to be open with us.
From the earlier post where we all suspected that Nivirea was telling lies, and her comment that 'She may have taken something from the giant' that she made, it sounds to me like she swiped the thing and is now realizing just how big of a mistake she made and is trying to cover it up with more lies.
Purr
Kaerri's Man. =)
Thanks, lady! Good post! That's what I needed to know. =)
Psychie
Princess Psychie
My pleasure.
Kaerri
Dannigan's Lady
Bren has based his opinion on the below quotes.
That's:
-- one admission of theft (before the giant had accused her of stealing, at least within our hearing),
-- one implied recanting followed by an explanation that makes no mention of either stealing or "finding,"
-- one "yes" quickly changed to "no" with what we know is another lie involved somewhere, and
-- what appears to be the same lie repeated.
Perhaps to you it's all one big lie that she is just trying to stick to, but to me, that's her changing her story to whatever she thinks will get her out of trouble.
Bearing in mind that the Mad Giant has consistently not heard any of us unless we specifically say we're talking loud enough for him, plus the fact that she continually referred to the giant in the third person rather than talking directly to him, it doesn't seem that unreasonable to assume that everything but the last statement was aimed at us. Nor does it seem impossible for her to have whispered any sort of explanation literally below his hearing (his head's 40 feet up, remember). Instead, she has been as uncommunicative about what happened while she was gone as her player has, without so much as a "Please just go with it, I'll explain later!"
Also bear in mind that this is after she vanished without a word, which is not conducive to trust, particularly given the circumstances the party was in at the time. Or at least what I assume is the time, because no one but you and the DM knows exactly when that was and for all I know she didn't bother to stick around for any of the confrontation or subsequent discussion about her own great-grandfather's curse.
And finally, I didn't say Bren automatically assumed she was lying. I said he can no longer automatically assume she's telling the truth, which I don't think is unjustified at the moment. If it hadn't been for everything else, Nivirea's indignation might have been convincing enough (and perhaps it is real), but it's not enough to counteract the rest.
That's:
-- one admission of theft (before the giant had accused her of stealing, at least within our hearing),
-- one implied recanting followed by an explanation that makes no mention of either stealing or "finding,"
-- one "yes" quickly changed to "no" with what we know is another lie involved somewhere, and
-- what appears to be the same lie repeated.
Perhaps to you it's all one big lie that she is just trying to stick to, but to me, that's her changing her story to whatever she thinks will get her out of trouble.
Bearing in mind that the Mad Giant has consistently not heard any of us unless we specifically say we're talking loud enough for him, plus the fact that she continually referred to the giant in the third person rather than talking directly to him, it doesn't seem that unreasonable to assume that everything but the last statement was aimed at us. Nor does it seem impossible for her to have whispered any sort of explanation literally below his hearing (his head's 40 feet up, remember). Instead, she has been as uncommunicative about what happened while she was gone as her player has, without so much as a "Please just go with it, I'll explain later!"
Also bear in mind that this is after she vanished without a word, which is not conducive to trust, particularly given the circumstances the party was in at the time. Or at least what I assume is the time, because no one but you and the DM knows exactly when that was and for all I know she didn't bother to stick around for any of the confrontation or subsequent discussion about her own great-grandfather's curse.
And finally, I didn't say Bren automatically assumed she was lying. I said he can no longer automatically assume she's telling the truth, which I don't think is unjustified at the moment. If it hadn't been for everything else, Nivirea's indignation might have been convincing enough (and perhaps it is real), but it's not enough to counteract the rest.
Wolf Rawrrr
Wolf-Knight
Welp... I think it's quite a bit of over-analyzing, but if that's how Bren's mind works, then it is what it is *woof*
I was just noticing how the whole talk of lies and mistrust happened very suddenly and strongly. Almost artificially in the sense that, as it seemed to me at least, Kaerri made certain observations and everyone sort of rallied around her and ganged up on my character, lol. Not saying that Nivirea didn't do anything to deserve it, clearly, but from both our point of views, this does seem like an overreaction. But again, it is what it is, hm?
An admission of theft is not lying, though, is it? So there's the lie of not having stolen the trinket, and the furthering of that lie by saying that she found it in the tunnel. And then she told the giant the same thing. You've just reinforced what I've said before, no? I was just thinking out loud, Kaerri, I didn't mean to make you get defensive over nothing. And I didn't realize what you and Dann said about the giant's hearing, I just assumed that he might hear anything that's not being whispered or conveyed in some secretive manner. As to why she didn't... Neither of us is the type who would, in this exact situation, take the time to whisper "psshhh everyone, I'm about to bullshit him, check it out" to the party before attempting to deceive the giant. Why bother? There's no advantage in doing so, and if I wanted to set the record straight, I could always do it later. But perhaps you should be talking to Nivirea about this
Purr
doesn't this say exactly that?
This new tagging system is pretty cool I have to say *woof*
TLDR; I was just surprised that that's all it took for the whole party to arrive to said conclusion. Perhaps I shouldn't be, but... it is what it is *woof*
I was just noticing how the whole talk of lies and mistrust happened very suddenly and strongly. Almost artificially in the sense that, as it seemed to me at least, Kaerri made certain observations and everyone sort of rallied around her and ganged up on my character, lol. Not saying that Nivirea didn't do anything to deserve it, clearly, but from both our point of views, this does seem like an overreaction. But again, it is what it is, hm?
An admission of theft is not lying, though, is it? So there's the lie of not having stolen the trinket, and the furthering of that lie by saying that she found it in the tunnel. And then she told the giant the same thing. You've just reinforced what I've said before, no? I was just thinking out loud, Kaerri, I didn't mean to make you get defensive over nothing. And I didn't realize what you and Dann said about the giant's hearing, I just assumed that he might hear anything that's not being whispered or conveyed in some secretive manner. As to why she didn't... Neither of us is the type who would, in this exact situation, take the time to whisper "psshhh everyone, I'm about to bullshit him, check it out" to the party before attempting to deceive the giant. Why bother? There's no advantage in doing so, and if I wanted to set the record straight, I could always do it later. But perhaps you should be talking to Nivirea about this
Purr
doesn't this say exactly that?This new tagging system is pretty cool I have to say *woof*
TLDR; I was just surprised that that's all it took for the whole party to arrive to said conclusion. Perhaps I shouldn't be, but... it is what it is *woof*
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