Opinion Are You Religious? (Discussion about religion because why not!)

[Idea]

Idea
*blows a kiss your way*

hm?

 

[Hige]

hm?

Thought your post was really good.

 

[Idea]

Thought your post was really good.

Ah thank you. To be honest I may have gotten a little hotheaded by the end, and sassy by te beginning. A little tired of debunking the same arguments over and over again.

 

[Hige]

Ah thank you. To be honest I may have gotten a little hotheaded by the end, and sassy by te beginning. A little tired of debunking the same arguments over and over again.

I understand. I feel the same when I see people commenting on areas of history I work with. I'm not as skilled in christanity history to defend it.

 

[Idea]

I understand. I feel the same when I see people commenting on areas of history I work with. I'm not as skilled in christanity history to defend it.

Well, I'm not exactly a historian or expert either, as I pointed out in my response there. And my point when I said it is simply that you don't need to dedicate your life to understand the things I said. To put it in a perhaps banal language, one simply needs to actually give a fuck. Which is something I find unfortunately a lot of people on all sides of the argument don't. Nobody is completely exempt from fault here. But I just because there is someone on a side that is an idiot does not justify the downputting of beliefs or of the credibility of people who hold those beliefs.

 

[Abendrot]

Because I hate Christianity with all my heart for the shit it has brought to my life.
Y'know, being rrrr---- let's not talk about that

 

[Hall Kervean]

So, wait, you disdain something because you were involved in it? AKA you disdain yourself or are you just admiting you're fundamentlaly biased?


Oh yes the good old arguments that show complete ignorance regarding what is ACTUALLY BELIEVED by people of faith. At least as far as we catholics go, I can't speak for protestants because those are more for an individual style of belief rather than a unified one.


It's called time and history. The things you call "not being a dick" today were in fact majorly implemented BY christanity. It's influence shifted many cultural norms and was at the base of many later philosophies not to mention providing the education necessary for actual cultural progress. And while the past deeds of something don't really apply to the value of it's descendants much, it does show just how much work was needed for what you think is "common sense" today.

As for the contradictions 99.999% of them are only contradictions when you know nothing about the bible. You'd think people claiming to be more intelligent would be mentally capable of realizing that maybe the average chirtstian doesn't actually believe in a talking snake but understands the bible is obviously a 2000 year old book written in the poetry-centric style of the time, but I guess that's too much to ask.

To give an example, that God can't be those threethings idea. Well, such a being would want the best possible result. The best possible result is one of order but freedom. So while God could interviene , doing so would leave us WORSE than the current situation.
In the first place, why do you oh mighty, think that you can tell that the world is any worse than it could be? By the laws of causality, everything in this universe is connected. Yet if I asked you what's gonna happen tomorrow you wouldn't be able to tell me. So how do you expect to understand the actions and choices of a being like God? What gives you the right to claim a contradiction in which you are forgetting virtually every variable?




All of these are a matter of what I just explained. Free will. Humans are given free will because their happiness would be meaningless without it. And as such, God intervienes very little. What ,meaning would have a miracle if it was an everyday occurrence? None. But if God revealed Himself in all His might, there would be no choice, it would be too overwhelming. You can think of it like tickling. It's not that it can't happen, or that you can't laugh without being tickled, but if you are tickled, you WILL laugh. Like it or not. Likewise belief is something that is better when done by choice, happiness is only menaingful if it comes by choice.

Second, Hell and Heaven are also choices. God doesn't send you to either, he invites you to Heaven, but the blindness of sin and corruption can make you yet reject God. And from the moment the choice is made, you are in eternity. Which is often mistaken with forever. But that is very wrong. It does not mena forever, it means an absence of time. It is as much as thousand years as it is a second.

Again, this is Catholic belief. I didn't even delve into the really complicated stuff. In fact, these are things I know by being interested , I didn't even need the required education of priesthood to understand this much.


First of all this "over 1000 animals species" is blown way out of proportion and is 9/10 plain untrue. The studies that claim it are extremely faulty and unscientific, many misunderstand breeding mistakes such as the case of "gay penguins" with actually being attracted to the same gender and we can't just ignore that genetical errors are a thing. Furthermore, even if this wasn't true 1000 species is a hair thread compared to the wig shop that is the animal kingdom with billions of species being known and more being found all the time.

this isn't to say gays don't have rights but this whole idea that it is somehow normal in nature is , as you put it, bullshit. what is it exactly? To be honest, it puzzles me too. it can't be genetic otherwise there wouldn't be so many, and it's not clearly a choice or a psychological issue. The traits of it reassemble more of a kink if you ask me and again it's ok to be in a gay relationship. It's ok to get one fo those government "marriages". But it does go agains the fundmanetals of both biological reproduction and christian marriage, so yeah we don't want gays married in our searches. We don't have anythign them in person, but you don't need to have anything against a kid to not want them spitting on the guest food. It's the behavior in context that is the problem, not any of it separated.


Again, this goes back to how the Bible was written. You don't have to believe in those things to be a christian mainly because there is one group of chrisitans in total that takes the bible literally. I believe their name was fundamentalists or somethign like that. And they are, for obvious reasons, very easy to make fun of. And to criticize. But your average tomato quality shoudl not be the tomato rotting on the shelves in the corner because someone left it there by accident. It should either be taken from the actual middle or from a careful consideration of all the elements. And that's being generous. You cannot attack a belief unless you can debunk it's most well-constructed and intelligent arguments and people.


In the end of the day, many claim to debunk christianity without even knowing what it ACTUALLY says. Without bothering to give it a second of thought or go for anything esle than low-hanging fruit. You claim my beliefs and those of billions who knows if more than have been and passed away were all bullshit, yet you inflate your egos just because you can swim in the kiddie pool now while we are watching from the ocean. There are many inteliigent and well-versed atheists I know and can respect, but the behavior you have shown here is downright bottom of the barrel. I suggest you do some research and actually think about these things carefully next time.

Non-Denominational thinks differently but
Points still stand that all of the points OP made are at best out of context and at worst wrong.
Yes I am making that without backing that up because I don't want to actually deal with an in-depth analysis that will be batted around for two days before being purged from the internet.

 

[The Gunrunner]

Pretty much already heard most of these. Idk, commenting

I'm not religious, but I used to be. Background as non-denominational Christian, though some are a bit more zealous in my family than others (grandmother's still not sure how to feel, heh.) Now my mom and uncle are more into the hippie-ish idea of 'spirituality' revolving around crystal healing and energy.

Not into trying to change Christians into changing their minds, since it doesn't really affect my life on its own. However, some types of debates inherently go to that realm due to conclusions being based around said beliefs.

 

[Idea]

Non-Denominational thinks differently but
Points still stand that all of the points OP made are at best out of context and at worst wrong.
Yes I am making that without backing that up because I don't want to actually deal with an in-depth analysis that will be batted around for two days before being purged from the internet.

I'm sorry, could you clarify what you said?

 

[Hall Kervean]

I'm sorry, could you clarify what you said?

You and I believe things differently
But
We agree that the OP's points were poor.
_____________________________
[For any possible response]

 

[Bacon is fluffy]

in general I'm not against religion. All you have to do is look back at soviet Russia or nazi Germany to see that a lack of religion, doesn't lead to a more peaceful world.

My problem with religion is the same I have with Islam. When religion is tied to the government and values which are incompatible with personal freedoms become law, you can end up with the oppressive state of the current Islamic faith. Or in your case, the Catholic Church that held dominion over Europe for hundreds of years after the fall of Rome.

Now here's my thing. Religion when it's defanged, like current Christianity. Gives meaning to people's lives in a way that being rational and knowing you're going to just die and rot in the ground. There's something special about the super natural, myth and legend that affects people's lives in a big way. Most of my tolerant attitudes in life came from the unquestionable tenants of thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not steal. Even as someone who isn't devout anymore, I still see the usefulness of said values.

What really killed Christianity for me is that 1. There's a ton of branches. How valid can a belief be if someone can just come along and say I'm not catholic because you worship saints or vice versa?

Second, is that Ezekiel's account of angels is amazing. It's like reading a really good fantasy book. I just can't take that seriously when it looks more like a page out of evangelion(the anime). A disfigured man like giant of flame and shining jewels.

Doesn't help me become more devout.

Now I will say this, with all that being said. My main point is you shouldn't hate religion. It's advisable that you don't. Because secular values don't always lead to a better world. And more importantly, religion gives life a great deal of meaning. I wish that I could believe in heaven so that I could see my dead family members again. Even if it won't happen, that security means a lot to people.




edit: WRONG PERSON LUL

 

[Idea]

You and I believe things differently
But
We agree that the OP's points were poor.
_____________________________
[For any possible response]

Ah alright. yeah, there tend to be differences in belief. Not sure which version of christianity you susbcribe to, though.

 

[Idea]

What really killed Christianity for me is that 1. There's a ton of branches. How valid can a belief be if someone can just come along and say I'm not catholic because you worship saints or vice versa?

Well, there are many branches in science too and you know, in basically every form of knowledge

. It simply comes from people being human and having limited knowledge and awareness. People will tell you are wrong because they believe you are since they believe they are right. Is this the case? Maybe or maybe not, it's up to your own judgment to try and understand which is the truth. Just because someone disagrees that doesn't make a belief more or less valid.

Second, is that Ezekiel's account of angels is amazing. It's like reading a really good fantasy book. I just can't take that seriously when it looks more like a page out of evangelion(the anime). A disfigured man like giant of flame and shining jewels.

Well, it's not supposed to be an anatomical description of the angelic being it's supposed to be a description of the intensity of the relevation via imagery. I can't there is nobody that believes in some old man in the sky making stone tablets, mainly children do, but I can say that such ideas are neither at the center nor actually accepted by the vast majority of people of faifth, they are merely protrayed as if they were for the same reason a lot of other groups are misrepresented, it gets better ratings.




Just to clarify I am not trying to attack your point, in fact your idea about a "defanged" religion intrigues me as I nver thought of the problem that way before, but I do want to try to clarify some of the concerns you seem to have regarding religion

 

[Tove]

The original post reminds me of rants from another person on here. You have too much time on your hands. Chill out get a cookie or something.

 

[Hige]

Hige in general I'm not against religion. All you have to do is look back at soviet Russia or nazi Germany to see that a lack of religion, doesn't lead to a more peaceful world.

My problem with religion is the same I have with Islam. When religion is tied to the government and values which are incompatible with personal freedoms become law, you can end up with the oppressive state of the current Islamic faith. Or in your case, the Catholic Church that held dominion over Europe for hundreds of years after the fall of Rome.

Now here's my thing. Religion when it's defanged, like current Christianity. Gives meaning to people's lives in a way that being rational and knowing you're going to just die and rot in the ground. There's something special about the super natural, myth and legend that affects people's lives in a big way. Most of my tolerant attitudes in life came from the unquestionable tenants of thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not steal. Even as someone who isn't devout anymore, I still see the usefulness of said values.

What really killed Christianity for me is that 1. There's a ton of branches. How valid can a belief be if someone can just come along and say I'm not catholic because you worship saints or vice versa?

Second, is that Ezekiel's account of angels is amazing. It's like reading a really good fantasy book. I just can't take that seriously when it looks more like a page out of evangelion(the anime). A disfigured man like giant of flame and shining jewels.

Doesn't help me become more devout.

Now I will say this, with all that being said. My main point is you shouldn't hate religion. It's advisable that you don't. Because secular values don't always lead to a better world. And more importantly, religion gives life a great deal of meaning. I wish that I could believe in heaven so that I could see my dead family members again. Even if it won't happen, that security means a lot to people.

Dunno why you mentioned me but okay

 

[Bacon is fluffy]

Dunno why you mentioned me but okay

Because you hate Christianity.

 

[Hige]

Because you hate Christianity.

No?
I don't? Why are you putting words in my mouth?

 

[Bacon is fluffy]

No?
I don't? Why are you putting words in my mouth?

oops my bad, xD I was on the train and connected that comment to the op.

 

[Hige]

oops my bad, xD I was on the train and connected that comment to the op.

Ahh, that's okay. Don't forget the OP hates Islam too and bases their opinion on the few extremes terrorists that happen to follow the same religion.

 

[Bacon is fluffy]

Well, there are many branches in science too and you know, in basically every form of knowledge

Different branches of religion are different branches of belief, not different branches of fact.

It simply comes from people being human and having limited knowledge and awareness. People will tell you are wrong because they believe you are since they believe they are right. Is this the case? Maybe or maybe not, it's up to your own judgment to try and understand which is the truth. Just because someone disagrees that doesn't make a belief more or less valid.

What's to stop me from saying I believe there are 3 gods? No one would be able to refute that because it's belief. I am arguing based on the notion that if you can conjure up a belief that is alien to a religion, then how valid is the system of belief as a whole?

Well, it's not supposed to be an anatomical description of the angelic being it's supposed to be a description of the intensity of the relevation via imagery. I can't there is nobody that believes in some old man in the sky making stone tablets, mainly children do, but I can say that such ideas are neither at the center nor actually accepted by the vast majority of people of faifth, they are merely protrayed as if they were for the same reason a lot of other groups are misrepresented, it gets better ratings.

It doesn't matter what the majority may or may not believe. This is coming from the bible, the historical account of events related to the religion. It's just as silly as saying we have a spiritual part of ourselves that transcends our finite bodies(soul) or that there's an eternal lake of fire(hell).

Why is one silly belief more valid than another when they come from the source of the religion?

Just to clarify I am not trying to attack your point, in fact your idea about a "defanged" religion intrigues me as I nver thought of the problem that way before, but I do want to try to clarify some of the concerns you seem to have regarding religion

You didn't clarify anything. xD

 

[Hall Kervean]

Ah alright. yeah, there tend to be differences in belief. Not sure which version of christianity you susbcribe to, though.

NON-DENOMINATIONAL
*DABS*
FREEDOOOOM

 

[Dr.Nekoshu]

Just wanna say, I originally came onto this discussion to say a thing and that thing was not needed so... But I just had an extremely good and knowledge-giving read so I thank those that participated.

 

[TheRockInception]

I think for the first time in my life I have physically cringed from reading something on the internet. And yes, I frequent r/CringeAnarchy. Physically cringed meaning I think I might have almost had a stroke.
Before I preface my response to OP, and subsequently, falling for the bait, I listen to Iron Maiden and heavy metal. I've read most of Ayn Rand's books and am politically moderate. I also happen to be a devout Christian (Lutheran Specifically). None of the things previously mentioned conflict with my beliefs.
So here I go, leave now while I shove the hook in my mouth, and swallow the bait.

I ain't hating on religious people

The religions I disdain the most are two:

1. Christianity - the one I was involved into.
2. Islam - the one where terrorists supposedly come from

Congratulations OP, you've contradicted yourself already.

The Bible - Seriously? Who needs a thousand metaphors to figure out you shouldn't be a dick? (Thanks, Bo Burnham). And let's not talk about the contradictions! God is supposedly an omnipotent being that knows what was, what is, and what will.

Compared to what was prominent at the time (such as paganism), Christianity (technically speaking Judaism honestly) was quite unique compared to some other religions of the time. For example, monotheism or say, loving one's enemy, among some other examples found in the old testament (BC) However, as some others have pointed out, Judaism and Christianity are not unique in its urge for peace, however, it did provide a separate way of leaving for others who wanted to live it. Yes, I do believe that you can be an atheist or agnostic and still be a nice and warm person. I also genuinely believe that, however Christianity (especially organized worship) regularly instills these values as a reminder or to make you reflect on, say, what you've done the past week or so.

Adam And Eve - THEN WHY IN THE FUCK did our dear All-Father (do you guys call him that? Or is that Odin from the Nordic Mythology?) put the Tree of Knowledge if he ALREADY KNEW IN ADVANCE that Adam And StEve would commit sin and eat the apple off of it?

I ain't hating on religious people

Right... Like insulting the other side already isn't hating.
Well, nobody has the answer to that and it isn't explicitly stated in Genesis or anywhere else in the Bible as to why God put the Tree in the Garden of Eden, and besides, it isn't really a logical point as what you have against Christianity (and apparently Islam, which I sadly can't defend as I am not a Muslim and have not read the Koran and don't really know much about it either. Also, you just seem to be bashing Christianity vs. Islam, perhaps because you know nothing about it, much like Christianity? Just something I thought I should be bring up.). Maybe He felt like it? Perhaps to test Adam and Eve their faith towards God? I can't really say much about this as it isn't a huge talking point.

Lucifer - Omnipotent beings don't make mistakes. THey're just not able to. Unless they want to. And so, why the fuck was Lucifer (or Samael, if you're that nit-picky) psychologically able to rebel? How did God create him knowing his mindset would make him rebel? He must've created Lucifer with the intent of him rebelling.

No, I don't think God makes mistakes. But I also think everything He created (which was in His image by the way, the way He wanted it to be) was meant to test Him and set an example to Mankind. The book of Job is a great example. I've also noticed that you seem to be bashing the Old Testament, which to me is somewhat irrelevant as Christianity has Christ, as in Our Lord, who only appears in the New Testament and consequently the 4 Gospels (I believe He also has an appearance physically in the book of Acts.), which pretty much honestly invalidates 95% of your 'argument' already. Just a side note.

Hell - No matter how much you rape, kill, or destroy in life -- no temporary crime or sin deserves PERMANENT punishment in the form of torment. To allow this to happen and be capable of stopping it is to be evil. According to this large book I have on my shelf called, and I quote "The Old Testament", Hell is eternal. Eternal punishment means Permanent punishment. Temporary crimes do not amount to permanent punishment. It is an injustice. And injustice, by strict definition, is evil. And don't go around saying that Satan rules hell because that's not true mate. Satan is simply the warden. Our friend God is the maker and rule-giver!

Completely off the charts invalid. Jesus Christ died for our sins, thus saving our souls, restoring our relationship with God and (I will get into this later) fulfilling all the prophecies and laws in the Old Testament. As long as the Evil Doer repents his or her sin, and you yourself (the reader, not op, or heck, why not) do the same and recognize what you have done wrong, believe that Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior, you are guaranteed eternal life in the Kingdom in Heaven. I mean really, if you stepped in God's shoes and looked at someone who met the criteria above, what would stop you from allowing that person into Heaven? As Acts 2:38 states "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Among many other verses and selections, which ironically, Mr. m' Fedora Neckbeard, has yet to provide textual evidence from the Bible to support his claims.

Homosexuality - Yeah, I'm looking at you, you gay-haters. Homosexuality is found in over 1000 animal species. Wanna know what is NOT found in animals? Chastity. That's right. Priests and Nuns do something against nature, and thus against God's will! Why would God create something that he doesn't approve of? He is either not omnipotent and that caused a mistake...or he is evil and wanted gays to suffer by putting them on Earth, pointing his finger at them and saying to every religious person that they're bad because they like people of their own biological sex.

Can you like, not, imply that an entire religion and its adherents, that has existed since the beginning of time itself is homophobic? That'd be really neat.

As stated before, once Jesus Christ died for our sins, all, or at least all that I'm aware of, the prophecies and laws of the Old Testament were fulfilled. The image below serves as my belief that it nullifies practically anyone who uses that one verse in Leviticus (which was meant to serve as a law code and guidance for the Israelites once they underwent the Exodus and is completely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things concerning Our Lord) And even if God somehow tells me I'm wrong, He will welcome all who come to His table, for, according to Mark 2:15-17,

15 While Jesus was having dinner at Levi’s house, many tax collectors and sinners were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. 16 When the teachers of the law who saw him eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?”

17 On hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

Old Testament vs New Testament - In the Old Testament, God killed over 10 million people. In the New Testament, he's an all-loving entity that forgives all. He forgives all? Yeah, right. Explain Hell, purgatory, and the fact that he wasn't so all-loving before. The Flood. Remember that? Exactly. He was angry at people because they were using their own free will to do stuff he didn't want them to do (mind stopped working? Yep! Mine did. Had to reboot it a couple of times). (Psst, Satan killed no more than 15 people in the Bible).

Again, Mr. m' Fedora Neckbeard (Now you know how it feels?), you have yet to provide a source or hell (pun not intended), any calculations. God has shown love to us since he made Adam from dust on the ground. For example, take a look at a local forest. To see all the birds singing, the beautiful plants and trees and various critters that inhabit it. Or, why not space? Take a look at the sky one night and look how pretty the stars, and the constellations, and even galaxies look (images of course, I don't know anyone who can see whole galaxies.) How about home? Can't you think of your parents that God has given to you, your talents, or friends or relatives that all love and care for you? Isn't it all wonderful and beautiful to experience these things, and to know that God (if you believe in him) created these things? There are so many more things that He has blessed us with. Anway, getting back on track here, Also, a bit of a TIL, hell doesn't have to refer to Hell, but it can refer to a place where spirits reside though no place in particular (As evidenced by some versions of the Apostles Creed where it is mentioned that Jesus descended into hell for three days until he was resurrected ), Hell was created for Satan and his angels to reside according to Matthew 25:41 ( “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.' " The context for this verse is Jesus' telling of the Parables, so this is coming from the mouth of the Son of God Himself.)

Ladies and Gentlemen, I have wasted an hour and a half typing a dumb rant because I felt like it, and I fell for the bait. Thank you for reading this massive wall of text.

And to OP, can you, you know, actually read the book you claim to hate so much? Or maybe provide statistics with context? And not come off as a general all around snob? Thanks!

 

[JayTee]

As an Atheist, the OP post is stupid and I am glad it is being called out as such by theist and non-theists alike. Goddamn man, way to try and start a shitstorm for basically no reason.

 

[Rachael of the Shire]

I believe that there is a Creator and that all life is special. All has been created with a purpose in mind and we create our own destiny. All religions have both good and evil teachings and it is our duty to pick the ones that are right for us.
I also believe that there are multiple lifetimes in which a soul must develop in order to fulfill its purpose.

I was raised a Christian - partly non denominational and partly in the Southern Baptist church, with some relatives following Jewish or Russian Orthodox teachings. My great grandmother is a Russian witch.

I started talking to random spirits when I was 7. Some of the more spiritually connected people around me started spreading rumors that I was demon possessed and/or a witch... mostly because I smacked Sunday School teachers so hard.

I absolutely hated the things I was being taught - that women were weaker vessels, that a man must always be dominant, and all that other bullshit. One of my aunts was a young atheist and feminist and told me how a woman deserves to be treated and that you are as strong as you choose to be. That set the foundation for what would happen a few years down the line.

When I was molested by one of my own relatives, my mom told me that it would be wrong to tell and start a scandal. . She also told me that God was okay with that and the horrible treatment I and my siblings all had to deal with because of my parents' mental issues.

I was kicked out of a church for leaving my parents' house at 18. I had been told that the church was supposed to help those in need of support, like God would have us do. These people betrayed me on such a deep level that I backed away from the entire Church for a while. After two more experiences with Christian establishments, I can say they were a waste of my life. I always get a hostile feel from them and have come to the conclusion that they only want me for my tithes.

The Church screwed me over in a way nobody else ever did. I became more suicidal than I already was and needed to talk to a cosmetology student for a while. He told me that my acceptance was my strength and those judgy people didn't deserve me.

I discovered a lot more about myself and the world after I met a young Wiccan witch. She taught me about past lives and helped me accept myself, appearance, sexuality, gender, and all. She gave me the confidence to pursue my nursing career and has become the most important person in my life.

For those who read this post or skipped to the end - I am a witch and I am spiritual and learning.