Abyssal Redemption Plan B: Eternal Exalted?

[Flyck]

Yes, Redeemed Abyssals must still deal with the great-curse.  


And enough of this pansy redemption stuff...


Like I said, Redemption is for quitters, and I'd leave many paraplegic solars in my wake before they could attempt to strap me down!  Besides... don't the Abyssals have to want the redemption for it to stick?

 

[Dracogryff]

Yes they do. Most don't, I don't think...but some might. I have one Abyssal concept that could be a lot of fun to play...was an extremely loyal Moonshadow follower of MoW (helped bring about the downfall of Thorns and was Exalted when he died in the fighting there). He was eventually ordered to kill a particular Lunar (from the first age, barely, but still damn old) that was causing the Mask issues...and lost his army and his sword in the fight, but eventually did take her down.


She happened to be his wife from the first age. In punishment for this, the seal that generally keeps an Abyssal from remembering his Solar life was pretty much shattered and he remembered just about everything about their marriage. Since he'd joined the Mask after his wife and son were killed by a plague...being told to kill his 'wife' by the guy made him go renegade and try to figure out what the hell to do now.


Unfortunately he's a bit of a hard one to get into a game...considering it'd probably have to be a more than starting character game, or an Abyssal one going back in time a bit and him with Dark Fate. Niether of which is an easy option at the moment...and there really aren't enough players in our group for a good Abyssal circle.

 

[Flyck]

That sucks...  That IS a damn good concept for an Abyssal.


The next character I want to run, is a renegade Abyssal Knife-fighter.  Probably go with a Daybreak artisan who has flashbacks of previous lives and an understanding of some 1st Age build/repair.  That way, I could at least justify a pair of Soulsteel Switchklaves.  The idea would be that he doesn't necessarily want redemption, but he's just tired of serving a Deathlord.  Of course, having him go rogue and cause problems was all in his Deathlord's plan, hence he ends up indirectly serving the Deathlord's schemes.

 

[Persell]

Not sure if this has allready been mentioned... And I DO like the dual monarchy, lethe, etc and like the idea of heroic ghosts fighting back against the void...


Yet... I too think their are enough exalt types...

 

[Samiel]

Right, let's sort this out.


When someone has an idea for a new whatever, it's because they want it in their game, right? It doesn't do much good for everyone to tell them not to because of X. The good Doctor Jukashi was looking for help with mechanics or theme, not advice on whether or not to employ the Eternal Exalted (not sure on the name, btw!).


My two cents?


The concept is viable. There's nothing preventing a new breed of Solar through a ritual of the Solar circle, just as there's clearly nothing preventing the creation of Abyssals through these means.


They could have their own charm sets entirely, as with the Abyssals, but for simplicity you might instead make a hybrid of them.


Perhaps the hybrids can purchase either Solar or Abyssal charms, with a few specific exceptions (such as crippling charms in the abyssal trees, avoiding most of the nasty, and all solar Holy charms). They gain a few charms that aren't unreasonably as custom solar or Abyssal charms, specialised towards peaceful death or rebirth.


Their charm concepts tend towards a replacement tactic rather than a corruption or a reformation as with Abyssals and Solars, respectively. A bureaucracy charm that Solars use to 'fix' the ruler of a state would, for these, instead replace him with a more suitable candidate and ease the transition to the new leadership.


A Solar charm to overpower and nasty-stab the opponent would, with them, instead cause the opponent to hurt himself if he continues to fight. Or something.

 

[Jukashi]

Yay, Samiel! You understand me!


Those ideas are pretty good, Samiel. I like the simplicity of hybridisation, and it fits in well; originally, the Eternals (can't think of a better name...) were supposed to be an easier, albiet less effective, means of redeeming Abyssals, by channeling their deathly essence into the points of overlap in Solar Charms, i.e. those Charms that banish creatures of darkness or bring restful death to ghosts (I was partly inspired by Righteous Devil Style in this). Though I wonder about the mechanical effect of the Charm overlap - would having a Solar Charm fulfill prerequisites as if it were its Abyssal twin? Hmm.


One thing I had an idea for was them having some Charms that revelved around memories and forgetfulness, particularly means of nullifying insanity or compulsion affects by, essentially, forgetting what caused them.

 

[Samiel]

Obsidian Shards of Infinity has a charm like that, it lets you negate Unnatural Mental Influences by inflicting an appropriate madness.


As to charm trees, I'd say you'd have to restructure and rename them between the Abyssal and Solar trees, instead of leaving it freestyle. It'd be a bit of work, but less than writing whole new trees.


New charms could take the place of odd prerequisites, I think. I don't think they should have Solar Holy charms, because they're just too Solar for a deathy hybrid, but they could have specialised Lethe-ish charms.


The distinction there being a lack of agg vs. Creatures of Darkness (save perhaps Labyrinth-specific ones like Nephracks), but a gain in functional approaches as opposed to damage.

 

[Jukashi]

A new set of Charms trees based on a mixture of Solar and Abyssal sounds good, though I'd have to wait until they bring out the Abyssal book for 2nd Ed, and I don't know how long that'll be. Well, I'm not in a hurry.


I had an additional idea that, maybe, as a result of being bounced around up to Solar, down to Abyssal and back up halfway again, their shards are losing their "focus" as Exalted; so, they're becoming blank- not like Ker'ion's Heroic Exalts, which are a clean canvas, but sort of vague and muddied; as a result, and with the effect of Lethe's essence being stuck into them, they're becoming vague and indefinite. A bit like the Lunar shards, but from simply being knocked around rather than the warping of the Wyld.


That way, in addition to associating them with death, they'd be associated with other transitory things, like birth, coastlines, and gateways. Losing both the vitality of Solars and the deathly force of Abyssals, they'd instead be more capable of picking up things from other types of Exalts, and their Charms would emphasise effects that involve indefinition, and gentle loss or gain. Perhaps some of their Charms could let them swap Ability or Attribute scores around temporarily, or force an average result on dice rolls.

 

[Samiel]

The dreaded Beige exalted.


(By the way, for charm balance and concept you could always use the ST companion Abyssal charms. They've muddled them deliberately, but just order them by essence requirement and you've got crude trees to work with.)

 

[Ahnya]

How about Temporal exalted?


It's an interesting concept....I just can't see many Abyssals actually doing it though. It's way too much fun to be an abyssal.

 

[Flyck]

...It's way too much fun to be an abyssal.

I agree wholesale.  Abyssals are amazingly fun.  It's the Emo-byssals I have problems with though...   :evil:

 

[Persell]

I think she meant from the perspective of the abyssal not from that of the player...

 

[Quchu]

Why can't it be fun for the whole bunch? Why do you hate fun, Safim? What has fun ever done to you?

 

[Ker'ion]

It ignores him and makes fun of him, taunting and teasing with it's enticing appearance and flashy lights and sounds.

 

[Persell]

Why can't it be fun for the whole bunch? Why do you hate fun' date=' Safim? What has fun ever done to you? [/quote']
Fun makes baby jesus cry. you are not supposed to have fun!


*looks around furiously*

 

[Cthulhu_Wakes]

*kicks over Safim* Now that he's out of here...

 

[Flyck]

I think she meant from the perspective of the abyssal not from that of the player...

Meh, doesn't change my response...   :twisted: .  Afterall, anyone who doesn't think it's fun to play an Abyssal, clearly hasn't watched any Hellsing or Vampire Hunter D.

 

[Persell]

If you had given different ressources people might have considered taking you serious.

 

[Flyck]

If you had given different ressources people might have considered taking you serious.

:roll:


Fine.  Can't please 'em all.  But the role of the Abyssal anti-hero, is still fun to play.  There is plenty of other resources for such character archetypes as well..  Riddick comes to mind, as well as many anime/manga, or even video games like Final Fantasy.

 

[Gtroc]

I always saw Riddick as more the solar/lunar area. that half dead dude in the chronicals of riddick is better example of an abyssal, or maybe a deathlord. and if you saw the animated short they did between the movies, the merc queen was very fairfolkesque. just my thoughts.

 

[Flyck]

Yes, but Riddick was definitely NOT good.  He was evil.  But most importantly (and the reason I used him as a reference), he was a typical 'anti-hero', and fit that archetype to the letter.

 

[Persell]

Solars can be as much anti hero as any abyssal can. Actually, most abyssals are heroes in the classical sense, they just got a bit of a twisted mindset. Riddick on the other hand knows that he is acting contrary to the beliefs of the majority and considers himself evil.

 

[Flyck]

Exactly.  And the typical Anti-hero is often portrayed in a very selfish or 'evil' sense.  I.E.  "I'm doing this my way, and consequences to the well-being of others is not my concern."  And while yes, a Lunar or Solar can be used to portay an Anti-hero character (or an Abyssal casted in a 'heroic' role), generally speaking Abyssals make better anti-heros in a storyline... especially if not every player is playing one.  It just comes natural to them.

 

[Flagg]

Riddick was a softie.

 

[Vanman]

I don't know. In Pitch Black he was definitely the anti-hero and was evil and all. No question. But in the Chronicles of Riddick, he was kind of good. Sure, he acted all tough and shit, but he wasn't all that different from Wolverine (at least in the comics). Evil veneer, heart of gold.....