Abyssal Redemption Plan B: Eternal Exalted?

[Jukashi]

Several times previously, I've offered ideas linked to a campaign based on mass Abyssal redemption- a high-level adventure where the goal is to hunt down and fix all the Abyssals.


Now, recently, I got a bit of an idea regarding this. Up to now, all references to "redeeming" an Abyssal involves turning them back into a Solar- a difficult proposition to be sure, and one that logically results in them losing a lot of power (since Charms that deal death and destruction aren't quiiiite as much a part of the Solar theme). However, several Solar-themed Charms do involve Lethe, and the rightful passing-on of the dead in to the cycle of reincarnation. So really, it's not so much death that's the problem as is disruptive death- the influence of Oblivion and the Neverborn.


The idea, basically, is this: what if, instead of totally turning an Abyssal shard back into a Solar one, you instead simply turned its unnatural death essence into natural death essence- similar to that associated with Saturn and her Chosen of Endings? You'd get a new type of Exalted, similar to an Abyssal but much more friendly to Creation, who embodies the concept of Reincarnation and the process of transition- one thing ending for another to begin. That way, you could retain most of the killin' fun of Abyssals while also getting your soul back.


I realise most people don't like Abyssal redemption to be easy, but if for some reason you wanted to change that- for example, it could even be part of a campaign for a Circle of loyal Abyssals whose fellows are all running off for a new lease on life, as it were- this might be a good way of doing things. You could call them Eternal Exalted, and their Castes could be Death, Lethe, Birth, Life and Cycle. Okay, that last one doesn't sound so good, but as an analog of the Eclipse Caste it was the only thing I could think of that made sense. Besides Circle, or Wheel, which sounded worse.


Most of their Charms could be easily adopted from existing Solar and Abyssal Charms, with the Abyssal Charms modified to stress Lethe over Oblivion and so on. Their version of the Curse could be an altered version of Resonance, where the essence of Lethe builds up in them and starts making people forget things, sort of like Arcane Fate. You could associate them with mist and overcast skies and so on, and make their Caste Marks spirals instead of circles. What do you think?

 

[Flagg]

I think (and this should in no way be taken as criticism of your particular ideas) that there are enough types of Exalted already.

 

[wordman]

what if, instead of totally turning an Abyssal shard back into a Solar one, you instead simply turned its unnatural death essence into natural death essence- similar to that associated with Saturn and her Chosen of Endings? You'd get a new type of Exalted, similar to an Abyssal but much more friendly to Creation

It seems more like you'd have what amounts to a change in temperament and theme, not so much a new type of exalt. It would actually be interesting to keep using exactly the same Abyssal charms, with different flavor text.


The key would really be replacing the Resonance mechanics.


Also, "Transition" might be a better name than "Cycle".

 

[Jukashi]

I think (and this should in no way be taken as criticism of your particular ideas) that there are enough types of Exalted already.

Stuff and nonsense.

It seems more like you'd have what amounts to a change in temperament and theme, not so much a new type of exalt. It would actually be interesting to keep using exactly the same Abyssal charms, with different flavor text.

Problem is that although it's much better than transition to a Solar, you'd still lose one or two, particularly the ones that cause horrible pain, suffering and madness. But you'd be able to pick up some Solar-like Charms that ordinary Abyssals could never normally get.

The key would really be replacing the Resonance mechanics.

The Lethe-related mechanic which I described might work. Essentially, they'd be forced to maintain a certain distance from life; if they got too involved with, say, a family, or a kingdom, it'd build up and peope would start forgetting they existed. at the high level they'd start forgetting things themselves. Balancing that, though, they'd also be able to "spend" their Lethe-resonance on some powerful Charms, such as a medicine Charm that cures all forms of madness (including the temorary effects of a Limit break).

Also, "Transition" might be a better name than "Cycle".

What I was really going for with the Eclipse-like Caste was a sense of all-encompassingness, where they represented the whole that the other castes represented the parts of. That'd go well with the diplomatic "hold Creation together" schtick, and the capacity to learn other creatures' Charms.


For their anima ability, I'd give them the power to dissolve oaths and bonds, as a counter to the Eclipse and Moonshadow ability.

 

[Hanat-Osul]

Do what you like, comrade, but I see no reason to invent yet ANOTHER type of Exalt. It sounds like what you want is a character who separates death from evil - eminently possible already with a  Twilight Solar who understands necromancy or a renegade Abyssal who follows the Wood Dragon Path. You could make a character that delves into the theme of death-as-cycle without adding yet another set of demigods to the roster.


To me, Abyssal redemption and the loss of power is interesting enough. Namely, if an Abyssal knows they will lose power, will they still be willing to search for redemption? To that end, the modifications I would make to existing material would be to make the power loss more severe. Also interesting is the social aspect of the change: even after she is redeemed, will her new companions ever fully trust her? Will her knowledge of the Deathlords' ways be used as a weapon against her former masters, or will her new allies refuse to be "contaminated" by it?

 

[Ledaal Kajiri]

If you find such interesting...good luck. To my mind...if you want to play an Endings like character...well...there's already a Redeemed or Renegade Abyssal, an actual Chosen of Endings, or any number of other optionsthat allow the basic idea...adding an entire full new group of exalts seems unnecessary to me...

 

[Flyck]

I'd like to mention, that the concept of Redemption is not an entirely 'known' thing to Abyssals, Deathlords, Heaven, Lunars (1st age or not), or Solars.  In fact, half the 'quest' behind a Redemption storyline should be working to find out if it's even possible.  Or at least, that was what I got from reading the part of Redemption in the Abyssal book.

 

[Jukashi]

In the STC 2nd edition, it states that all Abyssals are aware of the possibility of redemption as an innate part of their Exaltation.

 

[Flyck]

Hmm... I'll have to find that part, because that's a definate change from 1st edition.

 

[Ledaal Kajiri]

Actually, at least according to the 2E Storyteller's Companion every Abyssal is aware redemption is possible automatically. (p. 92 Storyteller Companion)

 

[Guest]

I agree that there is enough Exalted types, if you want a death type just use the heroic exalts and have Death, or Ker'ion claim them.

 

[Ker'ion]

No more Exalts for you.


Realistically, why does there need to be an extra set of Exalts?


We have Solars for the crazy kings.


We have Abyssals for the death-tainted psychos.


There are Akuma to cover the uber-destruction thing.


The Autochthonians are there to save or destroy, depending on who's side you're on.


The Lunars give you all the shapeshifting happiness.


For playing with reality, there are the Sidereals.


Dragon-Blooded give you the "You may be able to take me, but my friends will whip your ass" thing.


Then you have the Dragon-Kings, your Half-Dragons (et. al.), all of the Half-Castes and God-Blooded types, and those puny mortals.


Plus my Heroic Exalts, to save Creation from the bad crazy men, if you want them in a game.


Proper endings are the domain of the Sidereals, so you don't really need anything for that.


Why do we need another type?


What specialty do they cover that aren't already taken by someone else?

 

[Cthulhu_Wakes]

I think (and this should in no way be taken as criticism of your particular ideas) that there are enough types of Exalted already.

Stuff and reason.

I think that's what you meant to type

 

[StarHawk]

Okay, I read it, but the only thing that comes to mind: If it's supposed to be redemtion and all... Where do the souls go when one dies? Does it get "returned to the greater cycle" thus removed completely? Does it go to heaven and eventually come back solar? Does it go back to the Deathlords?


Reminds me much of the movie Envy... "But where does the poo go?"

 

[Flyck]

I am highly of the opinion that the best (and propper) death, is one that the Sidereals and the Loom of Fate doesn't have planned....   :twisted:

 

[The zombie cat]

I did have a plan for a circle of solars to redeem all the abisals, the strategy is simple but the execution harder.


You capture each abyssal live, one at a time, strap him down and perform the ritual of redemption, weather he deserves it or not. As I understand the ritual if US deems the abyssal unworthy the abyssal's body is consumed by the zenith anima power, their is no chance of a ghost and US gets to keep the shard to exalt a new solar in somebody that is worthy.


Edward

 

[Jukashi]

Ok, here's the reasoning. In the case that you redeem all the Abyssals- perhaps if you're playing a game set in the future, when the Solar Exalted have eliminated almost all the current threats to Creation and now the players have to face up to a fresh threat to their new First Age- then you won't have any Exalted left to play the Killy McDeathington role in the setting. In other words, the Eternals aren't so much in addition to the Abyssals (though they could be) as they are a replacement for them.


As to Starhawk's question RE souls: They'd reincarnate. The Celestial Essences, then, would likely float around by themselves.

 

[Hanat-Osul]

Jukashi, there's also a metaphysical problem: can a new form of Exaltation be created as a byproduct of the cleansing process? As far as we know in the books, only Autochthon, the designer of Exaltation, can tinker with the process like that.

 

[Jukashi]

Certainly, Autocthon is the authority on Exaltation, but I don't think he has a monopoly on it. The Incarna can certaily do some things with a shard, as can the Deathlords; the lords of the Underworld may have learned how to do it from the Yozi, but it's still them who created the Abyssals in the first place. And those sorts of powers can be matched using N/A level Artifacts and, of course, Solar Circle Sorcery.

 

[Guest]

They didn'y creat the Abyssals, they are in fact Solars, if they are cleansed they revert back, to what they really are.


Autocthon has one hell of a monopoly on exalted Essences, most of the Yozis are more powerful than he is, but he can still cleanse an Akuma, do to his power limitaions the mortal dies, but hey the essense is cleansed, he can fix an Abyssal to if he wants, but like the book says just because he can do it easaly dosn't mean the story that gets him to do it should be any easyer than the Zenith US way.

 

[Jukashi]

I never said we were creating Essences. All I'm doing with these guys is altering the Abyssal Essences. Heck, a Solar Circle Sorceror could probably do that just by summoning up a demon prince and getting them to do it. The point is, that capacity is well within the "limits" of a powerful Solar.

 

[Ledaal Kajiri]

A demon prince would be able to make them an Akuma at most...not to completely change what they were...that would be more in the realm of an actual Primordial, Yozi, Neverborn, or one of the Celestial Incarna... not Solar Circle Sorcery. The Sorcery and ritual used to cleanse an Abyssal is more a petition to the UCS, not just a spell that fixes the problem on its own.

 

[Dracogryff]

Thing is...the spell/ritual to make an Abyssal a Solar (and the necromatic spell/ritual to do the opposite) don't fundamentally change what the shard is, it merely cleanses it of death taint (or infuses it with such if the opposite). An Abyssal shard is still a Solar shard that has been corrupted. A Infernal shard is still a Solar shard that has been corrupted. They're all still Solar shards. I suppose you could find a new way to taint the shards...but you can't really make a totally new sort of shard out of them. It's all still a Solar shard that has been corrupted (or tainted, if you prefer) somehow. Why someone in creation would want to do this, I don't know, but I suppose it could happen that someone decided to corrupt things differently, this might happen.


In any case...define 'Killy McDeathington.' If you mean someone that kills shit good, say hi to the Lunars and Solars. If you mean focused on the death portion of the cycle of life, gove a nod to those Chosen by Endings sitting over there. If you mean angsty goth sorts...well. You could play a ghost or ghost-blood, or any of the above with all others included. An angsty Dragonblood with the ability to learn Necromancy instead of Sorcery, a gothy Lunar who has a vampire bat for a totem, the gloomy Solar who feels that he just messes things up wherever he goes since the Wyld Hunt chasing him always insists on fighting him in the middle of a crowded street, with all the damaged and casualties implied. *shrugs* I really don't know why there needs to be a 'Killy McDeathington' specific Exalt type...unless I'm conpletely misunderstanding what a 'Killy McDeathington' is. O.o

 

[Flyck]

While the corruption of a Solar Shard is inevitably what the Abyssal Essence amounts to, the corruption is to the point that the shard is truly a parallel opposite of it's original Solar version.  Furthermore, due to the corruptive Malfean taint behind it, the Abyssal shard is not affected by the great curse that effects all other exalts in different ways.  This of course, is countered by Resonance and the Malfeans back-handing any Abyssal who attempts to deny what they are.

 

[Dracogryff]

As to the Great Curse...the fact that the Neverborn are who gave out the Curse in the first place, it's probably not too hard to remove their own handiwork.


And all I was saying is that at its core, an Abyssal shard is just a Solar shard, so it's not really changing one shard into a different type of shard, as Jukashi is proposing is possible with this Eternal Exalted idea. They sound like purple Sids to me on the whole, though, so I don't see the need for 'em...and I still wonder what makes a person a 'Killy McDeathington' type. *chuckles* It seems to me that completely changing a shard from one thing into another is outside the powers the Exalted should have...otherwise, they could do something about themselves. Don't like being a Solar? Turn yourself into a Sidereal.


Now, corrupting the Solar shard in a different way...that I can see. Changing it entirely, not really. *shrugs* The thing I wonder is that if you manage to an redeem Abyssal...do they still get hit by the Great Curse? If the Neverborn removed the curse from the shard and then corrupted it...does that mean that if they're returned to being a Solar they don't have the issue? Might make the loss of power worth it in the end if that IS the case...aye? This assumes that it's something that is removable from individual shards and not a blanket curse...but since it was supposed to be against the gods and not the exalts...it's an interesting thought anyhow. I think it's been posed before too. Hmm.