[2E] Where is two-weapon fighting?

P

Persell

Ten Thousand Club
Greetings all.  I have just picked up Exalted 2nd Edition and I do have to say that I am quite in love with the system.


One thing I do not like, however, is what they've done with the rules for two weapon fighting.  Specifically, that they haven't, as far as I can see, included the rules for it in the 2nd Ed. book.  If someone could point out the pages where they discuss this or the errata for it, I would be much obliged.


I can't honestly believe that the producers of Exalted would mention two-weapon fighting in the description for the short daiklaives without actually mentioning the rules for it.
 
pg 148, Off-Hand


Once I have a book, I am really good at using it for reference.
 
Ah, very cool.  Thank you very much for pointing that out to me.  However, I must ask - exactly how does it work?


Does a character with a chopping sword use it every 4 ticks, but the knife every 5 ticks, but at the reduced penalty?  So the sword is used on tick 4, the knife on tick 5, the sword on tick 8, the knife on tick 10, the sword on tick 12, the knife on tick 15, the sword on tick 16, and then both on tick 20, and so on?
 
alohahaha said:
Ah, very cool.  Thank you very much for pointing that out to me.  However, I must ask - exactly how does it work?
Does a character with a chopping sword use it every 4 ticks, but the knife every 5 ticks, but at the reduced penalty?  So the sword is used on tick 4, the knife on tick 5, the sword on tick 8, the knife on tick 10, the sword on tick 12, the knife on tick 15, the sword on tick 16, and then both on tick 20, and so on?
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You can only make one attack on your tick, unless you flurry.  A flurry's Speed is the highest Speed of any of the individual actions.  So you can either make a single attack (with either weapon, though the off-hand weapon attacks at -1), OR flurry several attacks.  But either way, you don't suddenly get two initiative tracks because you are holding two weapons.
 
What he says is correct.


In the case of multiple weapons, the Speed youuse for your tick count I believe is the highest one.
 
So let me get this straight.  I'm doing two-weapon fighting with a chopping sword (Spd 4, Rate 2) and a knife (Spd 5, Rate 3).


I start on the first tick and want to flurry with both weapons.  This means that I'm making a total of 5 attacks (2 for the chopping sword and 3 for the knife).  If I attack first with the chopping sword, my dice pools for it are -5 and -6, and then I can attack with my knife at a -8, -9 and -10.  After the flurry is resolved, I'll be able to do the same again in 4 ticks, the speed of the chopping sword, which has the faster speed of the two weapons I'm using.


Is that about right?
 
ops said "the highest" speed, not the "fastest". I believe you'd go with the slower weapon's (higher) speed.


-S
 
And I don't have a book to confirm this at the moment, but if a chopping sword is faster than a knife, that's all sorts of fucked up.


-S
 
alohahaha said:
So let me get this straight.  I'm doing two-weapon fighting with a chopping sword (Spd 4, Rate 2) and a knife (Spd 5, Rate 3).
I start on the first tick and want to flurry with both weapons.  This means that I'm making a total of 5 attacks (2 for the chopping sword and 3 for the knife).  If I attack first with the chopping sword, my dice pools for it are -5 and -6, and then I can attack with my knife at a -8, -9 and -10.  After the flurry is resolved, I'll be able to do the same again in 4 ticks, the speed of the chopping sword, which has the faster speed of the two weapons I'm using.


Is that about right?
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The speed of the flurry will be 5 (the higher/slower of 4 and 5).


You can make up to 3 attacks in the flurry with your knife, due to its Rate.  You can make up to 2 attacks with the chopping sword, due to ITS Rate.
 
Stillborn said:
And I don't have a book to confirm this at the moment, but if a chopping sword is faster than a knife, that's all sorts of fucked up.
-S
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Not really.


In 2E, Speed is more a fucntion of both reach and how easy it is to re-ready the weapon. A choping sword is swung in an arch, which after the swing, usually leaves it ready to swing again. Knives are primarly stabbing weapons, and short. You have to extend youselves on the strike.


However, the knife has a higher rate than the chopping sword, cause it is light and quick to repeat stab. That chopping sword not only requires you to reverse momentum, but often to reverse the angle of the blade tohit sharp side first.
 
A Rate 3 Speed 5 weapon can attack 3 times in 5 seconds (a little more than once every 2 seconds), while a Rate 2 Speed 4 weapon can attack 2 times in 4 seconds (once every 2 seconds).  So in the long run the knife is "faster" in that you get more attacks with it.  It takes longer to position yourself to make those attacks, which is what Speed does.
 
It still seems wonky to me. Also, a knife is every bit a slashing weapon that it is a stabbing one. I'd say moreso, actually.


-S
 
I think a knife should have the same Speed and Rate as a fist, really. What are the stats on a fist?


-S
 
Stillborn said:
I think a knife should have the same Speed and Rate as a fist, really. What are the stats on a fist?
-S
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Punching someone is different from knifing them.  If you use your knife to make quick cutting attacks, Green Beret style, instead of trying to stab someone Crips style, you're swinging instead of thrusting, which is quite different.  Even sticking someone with a knife means you have to pull it out again if you want to keep using it.  You can't just throw a punch, close or twist your fist, and step back.
 
memesis said:
Punching someone is different from knifing them.  If you use your knife to make quick cutting attacks, Green Beret style, instead of trying to stab someone Crips style, you're swinging instead of thrusting, which is quite different.  Even sticking someone with a knife means you have to pull it out again if you want to keep using it.  You can't just throw a punch, close or twist your fist, and step back.
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Considering the literally dozens of ways to use your bare hand as an attack, all of which are boiled down to "fist" in the Exalted mechanics, it's somewhat ridiculous to make distinctions between the various ways you can cut with a knife.


A fighting knife has negligable weight (and thus momentum), and negligable reach, as compared to an empty hand. I really don't see how the small difference in weilding and knife and a fist would make a mechanical difference.


-S
 
Which prompts me to ask again: What are the stats for a bare fist?


-S
 
alohahaha said:
So let me get this straight.  I'm doing two-weapon fighting with a chopping sword (Spd 4, Rate 2) and a knife (Spd 5, Rate 3).
I start on the first tick and want to flurry with both weapons.  This means that I'm making a total of 5 attacks (2 for the chopping sword and 3 for the knife).  If I attack first with the chopping sword, my dice pools for it are -5 and -6, and then I can attack with my knife at a -8, -9 and -10.  After the flurry is resolved, I'll be able to do the same again in 4 ticks, the speed of the chopping sword, which has the faster speed of the two weapons I'm using.


Is that about right?
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Unless I read 2e incorrectly, it's the same as with 1e in that (in the case you bring up) you'd be able to make, at most, 3 actions.  You're rate per tick is the highest rate among your weapons.  So with a rate 3 and rate 2 weapons you'd get 3 moves, not 5.  Other than that (and the subsequent dice penalties) you appear to be right, although like the others have said, your speed is that of the slower weapon.  It's basically the same thing as first edition.
 
If that's true, then there is little to no point to dual-wielding.


 Page 143 of the 2nd Ed BWB appears to be the salient description of flurries, and there is nothing in the language that indicates the rate of a second weapon may not be employed.


 If there's anything else you can dig up on this subject, DP, I'd like to hear it--I haven't been able to find anything myself.
 
If that's true, then there is little to no point to dual-wielding.
 Page 143 of the 2nd Ed BWB appears to be the salient description of flurries, and there is nothing in the language that indicates the rate of a second weapon may not be employed.


 If there's anything else you can dig up on this subject, DP, I'd like to hear it--I haven't been able to find anything myself.
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That's mostly true for mortals (like it is in the real world), unless you are wielding a high-Defense weapon.  Paired weapons will get better with Charms (like it is in cinematic drama).  So it sounds like things are working as they should.
 
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