[2E] Fiery Solar Canon vs. Soulbreaker Orb: Artifact Level

[RainOfSteel]

Is it just me, or does it seem strange that Fiery Solar Canon (WotLA p.79) and Soulbreaker Orb (WotLA p.135) are both 5 dot artifacts?


Soulbreaker Orb is a lot more powerful and of much grander scale and effect, even when its drawbacks are considered.


I see plenty of references to Attributes and Abilities above 5, why aren't some of these artifacts above 5?


It may be within the purview of the Storyteller to say no to a Soulbreaker Orb as a starting artifact, but the fact remains that starting characters can legitimately request it, or a Storm Hammer, or a Glorious Scythe, requiring the Storyteller to exercise a series of denials or a blanket denial to a Player in what appears to be an arbitrary manner when the artifact in question should just be N/A or 6 dots (to just prevent this stuff from being in the game at the beginning).  Yes, I can "change" their ratings IMEU, but that's annoying.  Yes, I can also cause bovine scatalogical matter to fall upon Players who chose to purchase these things, but that inevitably would look like Storyteller retaliation (and really, that is exactly what it would be, punishing the Players for using the given mechanics of the system . . . and before anyone cries munchkinism on the Players part . . . this is Exalted we're talking about).


Does anyone else feel the same way, or do most simply think this is not an issue?

 

[Cthulhu_Wakes]

It's a matter of degree. A Solar Cannon is a PERSONAL weapon. It's a matter of degree. The Soulbreaker effects nations man. Solar Cannon's don't. It's just a matter of reasoning and debating what is sound for a PC to have. Who the FUCK wants a Soulbreaker anyway, they'll fuck themselves over or be killed by it or someone who wants it.

 

[RainOfSteel]

It's just a matter of reasoning and debating what is sound for a PC to have.

I've learned it's not wise to speculate on what PCs may, or may not, think is sound for their characters to possess.

Who the FUCK wants a Soulbreaker anyway, they'll fuck themselves over or be killed by it or someone who wants it.

Well, I never can figure out why one of our band of seven gamers always sells his PC's soul out to Set (or similar dark god) and then later betrays the same dark being.


I know of anther Player who inevitably makes his characters as strange as possible just to avoid personnel boredom.  Trying to argue things like "soundness" is futile.


Yes, I don't know that any Player will look into the back of WotLA and say, "Ooo!  Shiney!"  Followed by purchasing a Soulbreaker legally in character generation and then inventing whatever crazed justification is necessary after the fact (rationalization is, as I've discovered, quite easy).


Picking the Soulbreaker Orb as an example for this discussion was just a matter of illustration.

 

[Cthulhu_Wakes]

I know, but anyone who ever suggested it to me, along with their 'justification' (read: BULLSHIT) would get a sound beating.

 

[Persell]

the Soulbraker Orb would be Artifact NA if it wasnt a onme time use artifact. And the  FSC can kill ALOT of people, just not as fast.

 

[Persell]

I'd probaly destroy one... instead of dropping it on the imperial city, if I found it.

 

[Kremlin KOA]

I don;t have this problem


My players have seen this device, and the FSC... one player WANTS the fsc but nobody wants the soulbreaker orb

 

[Thorn Darkblade]

One other thing...a decent ST should consider the in-game repercussions of owning a rare 5-dot artifact. If they're so rare, someone has got to be keeping tabs on these things...who says the fate of extremely powerful artifacts can't be read? And, if someone says non-living things such as a soulbreaker orb can't be tracked, tell em to fuck off...after all, you're the ST. In fact, I personally tend to stay away from anything over a 3 dot artifact in character creation. Alot of insignificant but useful trinkets draws far less attention than a Daiklave of Conquest.

 

[RainOfSteel]

So, allow me to put this a different way.


How many people here believe the Soulbreaker Orb should be Artifact: N/A?

 

[Cthulhu_Wakes]

If it's a one time use, which it is in the book, I leave it at five. Multi use ones are N/A in my book.

 

[Ker'ion]

Agreeing with CW.

 

[Thorn Darkblade]

Ditto

 

[Kremlin KOA]

agreed with cw

 

[Spook]

paired with flurry charms FSC is a weapon of mass destruction.

 

[Cthulhu_Wakes]

Not on the scale of a Soulbreaker. I promise.

 

[Haku1]

Actually... if you have certain high essence archery charms that you pull out of 1e for conversion... you can have a solar with no worries for ammo for the scene... and then he activates a silly range type charm comboes with the super extra action type that allows you to shoot til you fail.

 

[Ker'ion]

paired with flurry charms FSC is a weapon of mass destruction.

Second paragraph says you can only fire it once in a flurry.

 

[Spook]

Second paragraph says you can only fire it once in a flurry.

Charms trump rate if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Haku1]

Yeap... charms -always- trump rate, especially if they're extra action charms.

 

[Persell]

i usually let only 1-3 dot artifacts be purchased without special consent.


besides, n/a artifacts are energizer-bunny weapons of mass destruction, one hit kill, or some kind of uber character boster.


p.s. although a character can legally buy one, the realm knows of them, and the houses will launch legions of DBs at the mere possability of getting one for the imminent civil war.

 

[Sherwood]

Ok, call me a idiot, but what book are you guys talking about?  It doesn't sound familiar..

 

[Solfi]

Wonders of the Lost Age, unless I'm mistaken.

 

[Samiel]

p.s. although a character can legally buy one' date=' the realm knows of them, and the houses will launch legions of DBs at the mere possability of getting one for the imminent civil war.[/quote']
If you're talking about soulbreakers, it specifically says in their writeup that they should be classed as "N/A" where character creation purchase is concerned. Makes you wonder why they gave them a rating of 5 at all when you treat them like N/A anyway. They said they lowered the rating because they're one-shot, but their game-breaking potential is supposed to be beyond the reach of PCs without some metaplot fuelling their aquisition.

 

[Thorn Darkblade]

I think the reason they're rated 5 instead of N/A is for artifact creation purposes, not starting character purposes. Creating one is possible, and difficult, just as any artifact 5 is, but it's not completely unfeasible. If a pissed off twilight wishes to make a nuke, let them. Make it incredibly dangerous though...I mean, what would happen if they just got one thing wrong? It's not like a daiklaive where they could just mess up the damage rating...

 

[Cthulhu_Wakes]

No it's more like their toy goes off in their face and yet without the real effect, no, just something worse Please! Someone in AOA build one!