XP costs for Sorcery

[Feverfew]

"Correct" fallacy or not, you still don't get the point I was attempting to make. xD


And that's nice, but the question was more directed to the people who were discussing why sorcery wasn't much use in combat-heavy games.

 

[MrMephistopheles]

And that's nice, but the question was more directed to the people who were discussing why sorcery wasn't much use in combat-heavy games.

Again, check out some of Grabowski's comments on that particular subject.

 

[The zombie cat]

I think reducing XP cost would be a tereble idea.


Sorcery is well balanced compared to charms, that meaning that a given spell or a given charm may be useful every session or never depending on the way the game goes.


Yes attack spells (and not I say attack and not combat) are slow to cast and leave you vulnerable, if you want to be an offensive combat sorcerer your going to need a way around this, there are 4 I know of, the iron man build (very high soak and twilight anima power or star mettle armour), having an alli stand beside you and defend you, or carfuly selecting circumstances so your enemy cannot retaliate while your casting (situation dependant) and finally the use of artefacts such as sorcery capturing cords or the crucible of tarim to pre cast your spells.


For this inconvenience every combat spell dose very usfull things, perhaps not universality usfull (obsidian butterflies is useless when facing a single death knight , gias rebuke is pointless against a horde of zombies and like any truly powerful attack any experienced celestial will respond with a perfect defence and take advantage of your heavily depleted essence reserve)


For spells that will be very usfull in a combat heavy game consider invulnerable skin of bronze and unbreakable bones of stone. Now you have good soak and hardness, reduced wound penalty's better damage and can use some of the lighter 2 handed weapons in 1 hand without penalty. And they last all day.


Demon of the first or second provides all kinds of benefits and the book makes it clear that anybody with the occult to use sorcery knows what they are doing so mishaps are going to be rare (just point this out to your GM and see how he reacts before you start using it lots). There is also summon elemental, minion of the eyles face, ghost and several other options for summoning guardians and assistants


those above are worth far more than charms, and there is only one speed bump charm on the way. Your getting a very good deal.


Then there are spells that will give you signifigant benefits because of your sercomstacs


The manse summoning spell may be used rarely but whenever you do use it you get several free background dots, ofcause if you dont think your likely to find an uncaped demisen or make one with wild shaping tequnike) then don't take this spell, (not valid if your GM makes you pay for backgrounds acquired in play, I think that is just to much bookkeeping however as backgrounds tend to fluctuate wildly in my games, and it punishes lateral thinking, use of craft skills or wild shaping tequnike and having the GM give you fun new toys.)


there are several communication spells, all of which will be completely useless if you don't have a need for long distance communication and indispensable if you do.


There are many spells that will never see use by a given character (especially in a combat oriented campaign), look under linguistics and bureaucracy and you will see bushels of them. Sorcery is as widly a varyed ability set as charms, why should a sorserer complain mor about her spells not seeing regular use than a charm specialest. The sorserr already dosnt need as many skills.


If you want to reduse the problem of charms and spells being expensive an never getting used an idear did just pop into my head. Halve or more the cost of all charms and spells (knacks, arcarnoi, gifts and any other supernatural power) and charge an additional 1 XP every time it gets used until the full cost has been payed. Actually I think I will use this, it will allow players to experiment with spells and charms that are only occasionaly (if ever) usfull at low cost.


Edward

 

[Ledaal Kajiri]

For that matter, making a Demense doesn't require Wyld Shaping Technique at all...if you have patience, simple Geomancy, Occult, Lore and Craft: Earth will do the job. Admittedly, this does make pulling a Manse out of the world with a spell somewhat less beneficial....since the time you save with the spell is instead spent creating the Demense, but, well, sometimes you want something specific, and that's the only way you're going to get it. After all, not everyone can learn Wyld Shaping Technique that can learn Celestial Circle Sorcery.

 

[The zombie cat]

I have never seen a campaign run long enough to actually build a demisen. It could hapon but tends not to.


edward

 

[Ophion]

For that matter' date=' making a Demense doesn't require Wyld Shaping Technique at all...if you have patience, simple Geomancy, Occult, Lore and Craft: Earth will do the job. Admittedly, this does make pulling a Manse out of the world with a spell somewhat less beneficial....since the time you save with the spell is instead spent creating the Demense, but, well, sometimes you want something specific, and that's the only way you're going to get it. After all, not everyone can learn Wyld Shaping Technique that can learn Celestial Circle Sorcery.[/quote']
And if you have the demesne but need help for manse construction there is Demon of the I Circle: Hopping Puppeteer!

 

[Persell]

Also, assuming you're in the Threshold, having some skill in Geomancy, a travel Spell/Charm and a bit of downtime can make tracking down Demenses quite easy. Anyone with Celestial Sorcery probably knows a travel spell (they tend to be fairly common in the games I've been in), and a Thaumaturgy Procedure is simple to learn.


A few days of hopping around and checking for demenses in the area can be quite profitable if you have the manse-building spell. Not to mention all the love from your team mates when you give them their shiny new Hearthstone/Manse.


I've played a few Sorcerers, though none with the above set up, and Sorcery is quite fun... just don't rely on it for every situation. Branch out a bit. My No Moon has Craft, Shapeshifting and Alchemy (not to mention ruining the ST's fun with Inevitable Genius Insight and Intelligence 5). The Twilight has Craft, Archery, Bureaucracy and a touch of Performance. The Fire Aspect Heptagram student has Melee, more Thaumaturgy than you can shake a stick at and Presence.


My opinions on spells? Generally, try to take utility spells, particularly effects that either can't be easily emulated with Charms or nobody else has. If no one takes any transport charms, take Stormwind Rider. If you suddenly find the ST remembering the whole language barrier thing and the Eclipse doesn't want to invest in Linguistics, then you can take a spell for translation. Come across a Magitech horde but no one is kitted out to do the maintenance? Incantation of Effective Restoration. Summoning in particular is almost always applicable, and most Sorcerers should take, and (ab)use, at least one of the Summoning Spells.


Sorcery does put you a bit behind in combat though, so be prepared to stand at the back and take on the mooks. Staying relevant isn't too hard, mind you, even if you can't touch the Dawn/Full Moon/Dusk/Battles. An Excelllency and later a PD isn't too hard.


To summarise: Sorcery requires some very careful choices. It's very easy to take spells you'll never use, and unused spells are even more worthless than unused Charms, since the Charms will probably be easier to find a use for. But it's fantastic for a bit of generalisation or for supplying that one trick you really need. Bringing down the xp costs will make it more available to normal folks, and the dedicated Sorcerers won't brake anything major. However, a comparable Training time decrease might be advisable. It still works without it, but requires careful and clever use.