WHY NOT: A Character Sheet

[ArcaneUnit]

I guess By sticking to an ArcaneUnit Archtype, I don't run into those problems. Or I just don't RP enough or with enough people at the same time.

 

[call me rae]

@readingraebow
Well. You can simply state one girl is prejudice and one is Openhearted.


cause, likely a city girl would say, "I am one of a bazillion and thus, each one part is significant." and the country girl would say, "I am not apart of the bazillion, they are a bazillion parts of their own part. Why would I care about them."


the country girl sees the city as a big rats nest, the city girls sees the rats nest from inside with respect.


NO one knows she is a rich or farm girl unless YOU say so in RP. that is how we knew xD lol


The only relevant part REALLY was the prejudice or considerate aspect. The rest was what I consider to be RP procrastination. (it will be revealed when necessary)


but I value ur opinion. Thanks


as far as rich people being bad however;


economics: investing money pays for infrastructure, insurance and wages immediately. we need it for an economic structure.


one man can't feed a nation even if he has money to do so. Food must be grown and moved. aka. man power. u can't blame rich for famine if no one grows food.


I am FLAT broke. I do not spite or hold enmity against rich people.


just as a personal lesson for you.


My Point is and was CS are - ... (re-read my previous posts)


that is my opinion.**


thank you.

1. I did not state that I felt that a persons financial status in anyway indicated whether or not they were a decent human being. I stated


Even if the girl from the prejudiced background was as nice as could be and tried to help - she would still be rebuffed because in the world of the roleplay her family would be seen as "bad people"


The reason that statement is true is because in the roleplay prejudice is a very strong motivating factor for the characters - after all the story centers around a hate crime so prejudice would logically play a decent part in the story.


Secondly the reason I stated so much about the character was to EXPLAIN the prejudice of that world. Because again it's relevant to how our characters would interact.


My wealthy girl from a prejudice background would be rebuffed because in this world the wealthy are known to commit hate crimes and get away with it - because they either buy out the goverment/law enforcement officials or because said officials are a part of their family and thus disinclined to arrest their own kin.


Now could I go on a tangent about the prejudice of people in the roleplay? Sure - but it would be kind of clunky because everyone lives in that world. So the prejudice would be ingrained in them. Could I put it instead in a settings post as part of the world building? Absolutely.


But either way your reply sort of proved my point - about making snap judgements of other people based on preconceived notions. You saw my remark on the people of the roleplay believing wealthy people are bad and you automatically assumed I felt the same way. But as you put in your own post WHO I AM and WHO MY CHARACTERS ARE is different. for that matter THE WORLD WE LIVE IN and the WORLD OUR CHARACTERS LIVE IN are also different. Which makes detailed character sheets useful as they can help us expand and explain those differences.


2. I did not meant to insinuate in anyway that your opinion was invalid or that you had to agree with me. I was simply curious as to the specific reasons WHY you felt that a personal history was irrelevant. Like do you just think that everything in it can be stated in the roleplay, do you just know your characters well enough to keep it straight in your head, for that matter do you trust your partners enough to just go with whatever they tell you and let the rest reveal itself in the story? Or - and judging by your aura post - do you simply order your priorities differently in terms of style? As your "aura" section if I remember it correctly basically goes by through a point by point description of how your character reacts in specific situations. What I described is basically a more roundabout way of doing the same thing.


But this is an opinion thread and if I ever gave you the impression that I was saying your opinion is wrong then I apologies. I know that I can sometimes come across as overly harsh without meaning to be.


You do make some valid points for minimalisation admittedly - your aura section could easily be repurposed for battle or magic stats. I am - and I'm sure this will be shocking to you judging by this reply - simply verbose. Why say in three words what I can say in thirty? It's just the way I write. Doesn't make me a hundred percent right or my character sheets perfect it just reflects my roleplay process.


3. In closing @Meredith pretty much hit the nail on the head with the core issue with character sheets. Whatever your style when it comes to filling them out their usefulness is directly proportional to how much effort and skill goes into completing them.


Using her examples - the first one is useless. I tells us the name, age, ( gender and maybe occupation, and appearance ) that tells us nothing about the character we couldn't mostly infer from his picture and he wouldn't mention in the roleplay.


By the same token writing pages and pages of backstory/personality/description/etc doesn't mean anything if you don't USE IT. Say you make your character one of those Tragic Trope characters.


Where they have pages and pages of this horrific background where they're beaten and starved or whatever and yet all throughout the roleplay they are cheerful and well adjusted. Or when you state in the personality section that they are a loner and uncomfortable around people yet at the same time outgoing and the center of attention.


In those those instances then yes the character sheet is an Amateur Escape Tool. But the key part of that phrase is Tool and Amateur. At the end of the day a character sheet is just a tool. It's up to the roleplayer themselves to determine it's relative usefulness based on effort and experience.

 

[ArcaneUnit]

SEEE my point was this,

By the same token writing pages and pages of backstory/personality/description/etc doesn't mean anything if you don't USE IT. Say you make your character one of those Tragic Trope characters.


Where they have pages and pages of this horrific background where they're beaten and starved or whatever and yet all throughout the roleplay they are cheerful and well adjusted. Or when you state in the personality section that they are a loner and uncomfortable around people yet at the same time outgoing and the center of attention.


In those those instances then yes the character sheet is an Amateur Escape Tool. But the key part of that phrase is Tool and Amateur. At the end of the day a character sheet is just a tool. It's up to the roleplayer themselves to determine it's relative usefulness based on effort and experience.

That was not what I was saying at all. That example if opposite. Maybe it is because I am 25 with lots of experience communicating, translating, reading, studying, writing, etc and you don't understand what that really means yet: Being mature.


If THE CS said a man had a tramatic experience, but he was always cheerful, that says something significant about the character. "That they have amazing coping skills. and that they can *Snap* ."


Also, Loners are often loners because they want to express themselves openly to evaluate peoples reactions and allow everyone to express themselves there afterwards, BUT everyone is cynical or stupid and rude and thus the Loner becomes shy. Loners are often very outgoing, and it is the other people who are very one-sided (a community of lazy people, drunks or wicked people.).


{* in my highschool. ONLY the unpopular kids played football or sports during our breaks, in free classes or before/after school. Eveyone else was talking about their weekend or making fun of them for playing sports. Who was outgoing???"


(even the jocks talked and didn't play sports during their breaks. Only for Team Practices)


So. I would suggest those are parts of a CS Backstory section which have value, and are NOT the part without.


This is why I started this topic.


I would love to go on about character stats in when I get a chance. I need to go do something right now.


thanks for reading, considering and potentially expanding your perspective. (not changing, EXpanding)

 

[call me rae]

Alright this is going to be my last reply to this thread as I think if I go any further it's just going to devolve into unproductive bickering.


But I will state this much - my previous examples where just that examples. And more to the point they happened to be in support of your opinions on this matter so I would think if nothing else you would take some comfort in that.


But the fact that you began with stating your so-called worldly experience and calling me immature means I'm done with this conversation.


I don't believe there should ever be any reason to descend into name calling when discussing opinions. You can think I'm wrong and disagree with my examples that's fine.


But I have never once been that rude to you and I don't appreciate you being rude to me.

 

[ArcaneUnit]

@readingraebow


I am genuinely sorry that calling you immature was taken as rude. Perhaps when you're older you will understand.


BUT, regardless of your reassuring words that you were supporting me in my opinion: You never once did, those were lies; You argued with me, not even debating or 'presenting ideas', and then lied by indicating they supported me even though they clearly didn't in any way. WTF was that?


Saying it, doesn't make it so. Saying it is so because it is, That is being said simply because it is so.


However, thank you for your contributions*. I was glad to have the opportunity to present the information I did each time I replied.

 

[Sycophant]

i'll echo the sentiment that everyone else has in that some people need a character sheet to organize and keep track of their character and that character's instances. if someone feels the need not to have a sheet, more power to them.

 

[Circus]

I agree with @ArcaneUnit I'm not a huge fan of CSs. A lot of what goes into a CS can be identified within the introductory post. Personality and history are fleshed out as the RP progresses. I guess they are good for referencing, as stated before, but I rarely have to do that. I get it that they're helpful for abilities and such since they originate from table top games, correct?


Megh. I can remember all my character information and I create history and flesh out personality as I go along. I usually end up betraying my CS anyways.

 

[Do You Know]

I certainly see where you've coming from, Circus.


Character applications, in their typical form, are very useful as skeletons. Relying on them, from my perspective, is a big mistake. Applications should be brief, giving the necessities needed for your partner(s) to visualize them, while still offering room for expansion during the actual roleplaying.


If there's anything that should be left out entirely of applications it is a requirement for full sentences and a history section. Writing full paragraphs-- more accurately, being demanded to write full paragraphs-- on what is essentially a resource is a grand waste of time. I'd much more prefer a short writing sample over "Please add five lines on childhood, seven lines on adolescence..." The history section in-general contains information that is either unimportant or will be fleshed out thoroughly in the roleplay itself.


I've written plenty a long application before realizing how much time could be spent on the actual meat, not the bare bones.

 

[The Dark Wizard]

Now now guys, lets not get snippy with each other.


Anyway, I've decided to interrupt the this thread as the following two part question: Do you like Character Sheets and do you think they are needed?





Do you like Character Sheets?

• Its not about liking them or hating them, since you'll always have a character sheet no matter what. Please refer to my answer to the second question for more info
  

Do you think they are needed?

• It is not about being needed, but what the type of roleplay it is you are running, that determines what Character Sheet you use and how.
  
• "But Wizard, jokes on you, I just don't have to include a character sheet and users can just start posting in my RP", No silly jokes on you. Even if you do that, the first time a user describes their character or what ever it is they are roleplaying as (thing, person, nation, abstract idea) and they describe it within their post, that information that other players read from you describing stuff in your post, that allows them to visualize what you are playing as is a character sheet. So whether you want them or not, they will always be there.
  

Now no one asked me what I do with Character Sheets, but I feel that it might help a bit if I explain, before I explain, lets define the most three popular styles of RPing, mind you dice, diceless, systems, what ever, even regular post by post all fit in this.


Traditional: An RP directed by a player with a complete vision in mind and story that players are expected to follow. The one in charge is normally called a Storyteller or a Gamemaster or Dungeon Master.


Freeform: An RP that doesn't have a concrete story and instead is created to allow players to explore the setting with their characters like say an MMO video game.


Jump In: An RP where no approval or character sheet is required(thats because its created the first time you describe what ever it is you are RPing as).


Now while I do think a lot of Character Sheets are pointless, I do put a lot of work into them as many users who RP with me the times I make a RP notice. I personally run Tradtional games but my absolute favorite thing to is to either run Freeform or mix Tradtional + Freedom even if its a really painful quest, this leads me to constantly rework and change sheets to match what I'm trying to do. This kind of need is what leads to bbcode requests, features, and even organization being made to the site(take for example hosted projects, tabs in threads or what ever else have you.


I also personally think most sites as I said above are pointless, except the few details I need which I label vitals, since I like to make worlds around characters, but thats just me. Everything else is to learn less about the characters and more about the player themselves in how they answer my questions.


So in short, you shouldn't be asking if Character Sheets are liked or needed, but whether how they and any aspect of roleplaying can be improved to better increase the sanctification of roleplayers. This is something I always ask my self before introducing something to the site.

 

[ArcaneUnit]

I like them.

 

[ArcaneUnit]

I literally JUST asked someone for their CS to determine what kind of RP I was designing as GameMaster.


Oh Gosh...

 

[Alexandra]

This has been an entertaining read.


From the perspective of a perpetual Dice roleplayer, character sheets are 100% necessary in every game I run or play in.

 

[ArcaneUnit]

What is a Perpetual Dice RP? @Alexandra

 

[Alexandra]

What is a Perpetual Dice RP? @Alexandra

I only play and run games with systems attached; they would be in the "Dice Roleplay" section here on the site. And since playing with a system means needing a concrete list of your character's capabilities, then character sheets are always completely necessary for what I do.

 

[ArcaneUnit]

I only play and run games with systems attached; they would be in the "Dice Roleplay" section here on the site. And since playing with a system means needing a concrete list of your character's capabilities, then character sheets are always completely necessary for what I do.

I would DEBATE not argue, that A characters Skill sets: not are Character Sheet data. That information is relative to the RP world more than the character. The Term LOG was used in previous posts, and Profile. Both of which do not specifically make reference to the Character himself like a CS, but instead go over World Building principals.


that is how I feel.


The Functional CS I wrote would be all I pre-request. Any other Data sheets would be extra curricular for the RP and easy referencing, Not cross referencing like a CS is for.


(cross referencing - refereeing to data that has not be presented in RP. "Easy referencing" - referring to stuff already used in RP that might be difficult to locate. )

 

[Alexandra]

This is a character sheet.


If you look here, and click the "traits" tab in Foolish13's post you will see another example of a character sheet; an online forum version.


There is no room for debate here; the words you use mean certain things, and if you choose to assign your own meanings, you will have to deal with the confusion. I think, from trying to puzzle out your posts, what you're talking about is specifically a character background, information or personality; blocks of text of varying length giving us narrative insight into what kind of person the character is.


Whether or not a detailed character background is necessary is entirely up to the GM, but if the game has a system, a character sheet is absolutely necessary to make sure the dice rolling works effectively.

 

[ArcaneUnit]

I can certainly agree to the Stat sheet.


and yes, indeed, I was more or less talking about Background, and information - Not personality. that matters. It demonstrates what you need to know about the authors take on the action.


a Stat sheet tells you things that are vey specific details of mathematical relevance. On a chart the GM governs.

 

[hikosa]

As a 25 year old who has been writing a long time

...

Character Sheets are an Amateur's Escape route. They are a form of Procrastination. They impede progress.

right on, you clearly know your stuff. there's no point in providing insight into why characters do anything at all. why do we even make characters? just make it up as you go along! consistency? good joke!


seriously do you really think that there's no point to writing about character beyond their physical appearance and "aura" (which is just hilarious that you're describing it)? like sorry dude but that's super naive. how on earth can you rp without having written down things about personality and backstory? do you really think neither of those are necessary?


you're basically describing personality with the "attitude per atmosphere" thing anyway.

 

[ArcaneUnit]

...
right on, you clearly know your stuff. there's no point in providing insight into why characters do anything at all. why do we even make characters? just make it up as you go along! consistency? good joke!


seriously do you really think that there's no point to writing about character beyond their physical appearance and "aura" (which is just hilarious that you're describing it)? like sorry dude but that's super naive. how on earth can you rp without having written down things about personality and backstory? do you really think neither of those are necessary?


you're basically describing personality with the "attitude per atmosphere" thing anyway.

Me and Readingraebow had this discussion already: A person's background seldom if ever actually reflects on character behaviour in real life or in the RP when taken at face value regardless. Consistency is attained through RP craftsmanship and participation and competence.


Aura is a rational contribute to a CS because it allows other readers to comment on your character from their own Perspectives, which they are entitled too. The Aura prevents Godmodding.


I Do in fact think neither are necessary. All necessary information can be added very easily, briefly and quickly at any point in the RP where it becomes relevant, interesting or revealing, If you are a skilled Roleplayer. No one could know SHiit about how that person{their character} would respond to their upbringing in a fictitious world, based on background* (edit error).


pardon my language.


"Attitude per atmosphere"?, Yes ~ aura. That is an aura.


I do not write backstories. I write down Father/or mothers general class. that's about it, in my Character profile, in the Rp.


If I write down any such backstory in CS, it is because as GM I want my roleplayers to have a general example. I do not use it for reference or to remember things - I use it to demonstrate an allowance. Generally speaking. NO. I don't use Character Sheets.

 

[Atom]

From a GM perspective I find character sheets absolutely necessary. And the widely accepted definition of character sheet, as has been pointed out before, "A character sheet is a record of a player character in a role-playing game, including whatever details, notes, game statistics, and background information a player would need during a play session".


So even what you do, minimally, is still referred to as a character sheet.


I prefer large character sheets as a GM as it's, in my opinion, a good measure of:

• Dedication, someone willing to put work into a sizeable character sheet is rarely the type of person to just quit on me midway.
  
• Writing skill, as in spelling, sentence structure, etc.
  
• Compatibility with the story and the already established and accepted characters.
  
• It allows me to see WHERE the character starts at in terms of personality more in-depth, at which point I can alter the story or setting to promote character development in the RP which is something I greatly enjoy.
  

And I have to disagree regarding the history section never reflecting to how the character is as I believe you've stated. It happens more often than seldom, I myself have created a plethora of characters who's entire personality was derived from their life before, molding them into who they were as it tends to do in real life. And I know plenty of people who certainly meet the same criteria.


Now from a player's predictive these are the other reasons I find sizeable character sheets necessary and helpful.

• It allows me to show the GM my skills ahead of time
  
• It allows me to write about my character and get into their head per se.
  
• It allows other players to contact me regarding my character in order to plan out interactions ahead of time, allowing for a more in-depth and cooperative experience.
  

Sooooooo in short, all examples, including yours, are character sheets. Whether or not they're necessary is entirely subjective to the writer.

 

[Bone2pick]

[QUOTE="Do You Know]If there's anything that should be left out entirely of applications it is a requirement for full sentences and a history section. Writing full paragraphs-- more accurately, being demanded to write full paragraphs-- on what is essentially a resource is a grand waste of time. I'd much more prefer a short writing sample over "Please add five lines on childhood, seven lines on adolescence..." The history section in-general contains information that is either unimportant or will be fleshed out thoroughly in the roleplay itself.
I've written plenty a long application before realizing how much time could be spent on the actual meat, not the bare bones.

[/QUOTE]
If you're "demanded" to write out a multiparagraph history it's reasonable to assume that effort is in the interest of the GM. So are you implying that it's a waste of time for the GM to read through it, and possibly reference it in the future?

 

[Do You Know]

If you're "demanded" to write out a multi-paragraph history it's reasonable to assume that effort is in the interest of the GM. So are you implying that it's a waste of time for the GM to read through it, and possibly reference it in the future?

Obviously so.


But your inquiry puzzles me. How do you reach the implication that I believe "...it's a waste of time for the GM to read through [a character's history], and possibly reference it in the future..." from any of what I posted earlier? To expand on my actual words, I think being demanded to write full paragraphs on what is essentially a resource is a grand waste of time because the history section in-general contains information that is either unimportant or will be fleshed out thoroughly in the roleplay itself.





My latter words practically answered your own question.


But I, personally, have never experienced a roleplay where requirements to make apps longer were anything but tests; if the player could write two+ paragraphs about their character's history, according to the GM's mentality, they are well-suited for their roleplay. And, if they really do want a resource to make callbacks to, can a few lines or important detail not get the same job done? Besides, from my perspective, the GM's role is to institute a storyline and build upon the plot and setting with their recruited players. If the player in-question's character has a more in-depth history than at first glance, let them introduce it.

 

[Bone2pick]

[QUOTE="Do You Know]But your inquiry puzzles me. How do you reach the implication that I believe "...it's a waste of time for the GM to read through [a character's history], and possibly reference it in the future..." from any of what I posted earlier? To expand on my actual words, I think being demanded to write full paragraphs on what is essentially a resource is a grand waste of time because the history section in-general contains information that is either unimportant or will be fleshed out thoroughly in the roleplay itself.

[/QUOTE]
You don't understand how everything in red supports that implication? You're confused on how you stating—and now confirming—that a a GM requiring a multiparagraph history is a waste of time...is a waste of time? ( )




[QUOTE="Do You Know]

[/QUOTE][QUOTE="Do You Know]

My latter words practically answered your own question.

[/QUOTE]
Nah, I needed you to clarify that you were including the GM's viewpoint as a waste of time and not just your own. It makes all the difference in the world.

[QUOTE="Do You Know]
But I, personally, have never experienced a roleplay where requirements to make apps longer were anything but tests; if the player could write two+ paragraphs about their character's history, according to the GM's mentality, they are well-suited for their roleplay.

[/QUOTE]
It's quite possible you don't understand, or are short-selling, the mentality of GM's who require sizable history write ups, no?

 

[Do You Know]

@Bone2pick


If you knew I though the requirement of "multiparagraph" history was a waste of time already, why ask?


But here's my implications based on your own: When you give specific details never originally stated in the point-of-view you quote, you appear to be misinterpreting my words. For example, if I answered with "Are you inquiring, by inquiring, that I cannot post with my perspective of the issue on a discussion thread without being heckled?" In actuality, I assume you never meant aggression via heckling with your response, but my example passive-aggressively communicates that you did.


And what do you mean by "including the GM's viewpoint as a waste of time and not just your own"? Is this a jab at me?


Also, drawing support from past experiences does not equal shortsightedness.

 

[ArcaneUnit]

From a GM perspective I find character sheets absolutely necessary. And the widely accepted definition of character sheet, as has been pointed out before, "A character sheet is a record of a player character in a role-playing game, including whatever details, notes, game statistics, and background information a player would need during a play session".
So even what you do, minimally, is still referred to as a character sheet.


I prefer large character sheets as a GM as it's, in my opinion, a good measure of:

• Dedication, someone willing to put work into a sizeable character sheet is rarely the type of person to just quit on me midway.
  
• Writing skill, as in spelling, sentence structure, etc.
  
• Compatibility with the story and the already established and accepted characters.
  
• It allows me to see WHERE the character starts at in terms of personality more in-depth, at which point I can alter the story or setting to promote character development in the RP which is something I greatly enjoy.
  

And I have to disagree regarding the history section never reflecting to how the character is as I believe you've stated. It happens more often than seldom, I myself have created a plethora of characters who's entire personality was derived from their life before, molding them into who they were as it tends to do in real life. And I know plenty of people who certainly meet the same criteria.


Now from a player's predictive these are the other reasons I find sizeable character sheets necessary and helpful.

• It allows me to show the GM my skills ahead of time
  
• It allows me to write about my character and get into their head per se.
  
• It allows other players to contact me regarding my character in order to plan out interactions ahead of time, allowing for a more in-depth and cooperative experience.
  

Sooooooo in short, all examples, including yours, are character sheets. Whether or not they're necessary is entirely subjective to the writer.

Alright. That there is Perfect!!


Thank you.


I believe there was already a contribution similar to yours regarding the GM's perspectives, and I acknowledged it.


BUT YES. AS A GM, they are very nice to have.