Other What's the most important writing trait, for you personally?

[Jet]

Not making value judgements today folks, just an honest opinion thread about what you value most in your own writing.

Here are some traits that come to mind.

• Clarity
• Fun
• Descriptiveness
• Tempo/Flow
• Cleverness/Wit

What order do you rank these things in your own writing? Like if you had to make a sentence and had to prioritize one over another, how would your list go? I think for me it goes.

1. Clarity
2. Tempo/Flow
3. Fun
4. Descriptiveness
5. Cleverness/Wit

For me, clarity is required for the others to exist, so that's taking the number one spot. Flow is next for similar reasons. If my work is hard to read, comprehension will suffer and I'll struggle with the remaining traits.

Fun comes next which usually means good dialogue, as a writer who minimizes my own voice. I like taking a back seat and letting my characters pull the weight, rather than funny exposition for example.

Descriptiveness is fourth because, while important to me, I'd rather have a clear, flowing sentence with good dialogue, to a descriptive one without it. Then comes cleverness and wit, as again, I minimize my presence. It's not that I avoid clever turns of phrase, but I've less chances than a writer who uses lots of exposition.

That said, my ideal writing has all of these things. I'm certainly not against writing clear, flowing sentences with good entertainment value, detailed descriptions and witty phrases. This is just my personal hierarchy of importance, where I would sacrifice a witty phrase to improve clarity and flow. And after thinking about this topic, I'm curious to see what others think.

Again, not a value judgement thread. There's nothing wrong with thinking fun is the #1 priority, as storytelling exists to entertain. Same goes for any other trait, or even traits I didn't think of.

 

[Sugarnaut]

Love this thread idea~

Tempo/Flow
Cleverness/Wit
Fun
Clarity
Descriptiveness

My style of writing tends to be in limited 3rd person point of view that follows more a train of thought of the character I'm writing. Everything is described in that limited scope and it's just very fun to write.

Descriptiveness is always last just because it's the next thing I have to improve on in my own writing style.

 

[Serenata]

Only a few of these come to mind for me when I'm writing. Those that I choose are all pretty much important to me and I don't find myself prioritizing any over the other otherwise I might as well not be writing. Everything I write is and will always be both descriptive, clear, and able to flow in a way that suits what I'm looking for when I write. That's where my fun comes in. Doing what I need to do to properly convey my storytelling. The End.

 

[Serenata]

There are certainly times when one thing must be prioritized over another, simple as. If you want a super clear, detailed description of something, it might be very hard to incorporate a fun or witty phrase, without detracting from clarity and flow.

That's not always the case of course, and it's not even usually the case, but there are times when it is. And gun to your head, if you had to pick one, what would you pick?

If you don't want to participate that's fine, but if you've never had to pick between different priorities in a sentence, then I question your editing process.

No, not for me. It's actually not hard to incorporate a fun or witty phrase, if the latter is something I aimed to do. I don't have to prioritize one over the other. Above, I responded how I saw fit. I'm sorry if that's not the type of answer you were looking for or find fault in it but oh well, that's on you. You're free to feel however you want. Have a good evening.

 

[Jet]

No, not for me. It's actually not hard to incorporate a fun or witty phrase, if the latter is something I aimed to do. I don't have to prioritize one over the other. Above, I responded how I saw fit. I'm sorry if that's not the type of answer you were looking for or find fault in it but oh well, that's on you. You're free to feel however you want. Have a good evening.

I see you caught my delete lmao. I took your post in a shittier way than you probably intended, so I decided to delete.

But if you've seen it and replied I'll continue the conversation with a healthier mindset.

Of course you can include a witty phrase when you want to, but sentences can become bloated if you throw the kitchen sink at them. If you try to be the most detailed writer in the room, you won't be the clearest or the wittiest, because you've invested the reader's time in extremely detailed descriptions. You won't provide the same imagery as a truncated writer, who only focuses on what's happening "on screen."

If you say screw it and do everything at once, your pace will be glacial and that hurts entertainment value.

If you focus on flow and readability over everything else, you may cut a description that can't roll off the tongue, or disrupts your tempo.

None of this is to make a value judgement. There are detail fiends who likely find my writing bland, and prefer three sentences dedicated to precise, hyper detailed movements. Where I'll use one verb and sometimes an adverb, to keep things clean, simple and clear.

 

[A Sparkling Zombie]

1. Tempo/Flow
2. Clarity
3. Fun
4. Descriptive
5. Cleverness/wit

It seems like the trend for a lot of multi-para roleplayers is to respond to a post in its entirety. Often that feels like a laundry list to me unless the hook at the beginning is strong enough. If it isn't, then I'll opt for a point halfway through, even if it might mean skipping over colorful-but-relatively-insignificant character reactions, because I think my post will then start off with a better flow. That and I prefer to keep within the present as much as possible, in that I loathe opening up wormholes where a one-line remark suddenly spawns a five-minute conversation that is then balanced with another time sequence of interaction. If something a character says early in the post merits a reaction that might lead to something lengthier or substantial, then I'll delay it until it can fit within the present moment.

Every other item is less concrete in its ranking, but it's close enough to the general priority I follow, I think.

 

[Jet]

1. Tempo/Flow
2. Clarity
3. Fun
4. Descriptive
5. Cleverness/wit

It seems like the trend for a lot of multi-para roleplayers is to respond to a post in its entirety. Often that feels like a laundry list to me unless the hook at the beginning is strong enough. If it isn't, then I'll opt for a point halfway through, even if it might mean skipping over colorful-but-relatively-insignificant character reactions, because I think my post will then start off with a better flow. That and I prefer to keep within the present as much as possible, in that I loathe opening up wormholes where a one-line remark suddenly spawns a five-minute conversation that is then balanced with another time sequence of interaction. If something a character says early in the post merits a reaction that might lead to something lengthier or substantial, then I'll delay it until it can fit within the present moment.

Every other item is less concrete in its ranking, but it's close enough to the general priority I follow, I think.

Dude tell me about it. I hate passive observations where my character is standing there like a vegetable. If I have to reach back and cover a whole post, which sometimes I do, I'll include my partners dialogue and add mine to the mix. Almost like I'm rewriting the scene with my character within it, making my character less passive.

My friends and I have discussed reach-back posts many times lmao. We all hate them so much, so you got a smile outta me. (Was thinking, "Oh we're not crazy, there are others like us!")

 

[Lorsh]

Replymanship

 

[Murdergurl]

For me it would be

• Clarity
• Tempo/Flow
• Descriptiveness
• Fun
• Cleverness/Wit

To me, Clarity and Descriptiveness go hand-in-hand. Is what I'm describing made clear? Is the scene set in a way that the others who read it understand what is happening, and what details they should be absorbing? I'm not putting Clarity and Descriptiveness one after another in priority though, because not every entry need be an opening to some new thing that need be described.

The rhythm of the prose is also important because it's what makes reading any given piece of writing palatable. If the entry is clunky, chopped up into way too many parts, or a series of run-on sentences, it can be had to decipher... Which honestly, kind of goes back to clarity. Really, Clarity.Tempo, and Descriptiveness are all intrinsic to one another in my opinion.

Fun is relative. Everyone wants something out of their roleplay experience. But it can oftentimes be different things. Just the writing and creating aspect can be the fun part for some. The overarching story might be the most enjoyable part for others. Character development and dialogue might be the craving of some. And others yet might really just be looking for a bloody good time in an action scene. So Fun is I think one of the more elusive aspects to really wrestle down and find people to bounce it off of. And really, the fun is what comes out of the labor as a whole and should be produced naturally and not shoehorned into a post. How do you even inject fun into a post? It's not like as simple as typing a specific set of words or anything.

Cleverness/Wit. If fun is a matter of perspective, then being clever and witty is even more so. Also, this might not even pertain to the RP at hand depending on the mood. And inserting cleverness into every post would quickly lose its effectiveness. So low priority on establishing that element. If it happens, it happens.

 

[Murdergurl]

It seems like the trend for a lot of multi-para roleplayers is to respond to a post in its entirety.

My friends and I have discussed reach-back posts many times lmao. We all hate them so much...

Are we talking about when a player responds by basically reiterating what the post they are responding to just did, by basically repeating the post the other person made? And then just topping off with a reactive reply? I call those re-cap posts... and imo they are just a lazy way to pad out a reply and guise a piss poor contribution.

 

[A Sparkling Zombie]

Are we talking about when a player responds by basically reiterating what the post they are responding to just did, by basically repeating the post the other person made? And then just topping off with a reactive reply? I call those re-cap posts... and imo they are just a lazy way to pad out a reply and guise a piss poor contribution.

For me, it's both that and also that I'm particular about keeping things in a linear sequence. It's clunky, in my mind, when a post is balancing two separate conversations, and it absolutely bothers me when someone reorders the sequence of events in their post, especially in a group scene, because then the next person has to consider which sequence is valid, or worse, they create their own and it's complete pandemonium, lol.

I don't mind some recap as long as it adds to tone or reveals something substantial about the character, but yeah, to me, the motive needs to be about more than padding out a post or responding to a line for the sake of responding to it.

 

[Jet]

Are we talking about when a player responds by basically reiterating what the post they are responding to just did, by basically repeating the post the other person made? And then just topping off with a reactive reply? I call those re-cap posts... and imo they are just a lazy way to pad out a reply and guise a piss poor contribution.

I meant something a little different. I hate writing passive observation posts, where my character observes and contemplates everything that happens. Like retelling the scene through their eyes, rather than a straight re-telling.

Id rather show a character's impression at the start of a post (so and so was surprised by Mike's argument).

Also, I can show what they think with dialogue, physical movement and thoughts that happen in the present. I'd rather do that, then write detailed analysis of everything that happened since my last post, while my character stands around saying nothing. I also like ambiguity. I'd like everyone to have a slightly different opinion about my characters, so explaining every little thought counters that.

That said, I don't hate passive observation as a reader, only a writer.

Now about straight retellings? I've never seen that but what the hell? That sounds miserable.

 

[Murdergurl]

For me, it's both that and also that I'm particular about keeping things in a linear sequence. It's clunky, in my mind, when a post is balancing two separate conversations, and it absolutely bothers me when someone reorders the sequence of events in their post, especially in a group scene, because then the next person has to consider which sequence is valid, or worse, they create their own and it's complete pandemonium, lol.

Oh, okay. i totally get what you mean and have experienced this as well. Character A does things in a certain order (often for a reason), but then that order gets totally muddled by character B's response (possibly character C and D too). And by the time it's A's turn for a post again, the intent of their actions has been hijacked.

I feel like these kinds of situations can be avoided by setting some kind of limit to the amount of time a posts actions can take up. Like, if you are going to interact with a character, don't write in more actions that could happen in more than say... 10seconds or something. I am sure this comes with its own slew of problems, but some kind of mindfulness to keeping the amount of actions people include with each post would definitely do some good here.

I meant something a little different. I hate writing passive observation posts, where my character observes and contemplates everything that happens. Like retelling the scene through their eyes, rather than a straight re-telling.

imo, that's still a version of a recap. And still kind of annoying for people to do if they just go over every reaction bit by bit.

Now about straight retellings? I've never seen that but what the hell? That sounds miserable.

Mostly have had it happen to me in 1x1s... which is yet another reason I don't really pursue those kinds of RPs.

 

[Spoiled Bread]

1. Tempo
2. Fun
3. Clarity
4. Descriptiveness
5. Cleverness

Tempo is the most important for me as it allows the writers to go back and forth smoothly. A post that has too much to replies to become tiring if done repeatedly, but not much to reply to can kill the mood. Fun is next, it's the aspect I appreciate the most but I dont think its the most important as not every moment can be fun, something we just needs to drag ourself through and its okay. Clarity is good of course, but I'm not an english native and rather than stressing on perfect post clarity I would rather keep my mind open for critisism so I can gradually learn, also a good OOC can help with this. Descriptiveness and cleverness are good too, but I count them more as a bonus than something that must be done.

 

[MissyRp]

For me the 'Flow' or Frequency is important. Otherwise the roleplay gets stagnant.

 

[mishal]

Sense of humour and the ability to push a story forward rather than making others do it (you have to do more than breathe and react!)

 

[Elohim]

1: Tempo/Flow - I have gone through really horrible RPs before, just because my partner can keep up. So long as they're not 1/2 liners constantly (sometimes I will still accept them), I'll just keep going reply after reply, like an addict waiting for their next hit. I have serious problems begin to arise with a lack of tempo, as it kills all motivation and joy in the story to know that you will never actually achieve what you want to achieve unless you're writing for multiple years. Memory of small details is also far fresher if you go at a quicker tempo.

2: Cleverness/Wit - A good partner knows to think about what would progress the story in an interesting, realistic, or engaging manner. I highly value anyone who has ideas for elaborate stories, complex character relationships, or unique ways of problem solving/approaching character combat. The more clever a player, the more likely they will be helpful to anything you want to do/create while providing their own secret twists.

3: Descriptiveness - I like a nice paragraph or proper details where they're necessary. I also enjoy seeing interesting word choice, learning new ways of describing things, etc. However, I'm not really rping to write a novel. To me it's just a game. Multi-paragraph scenes where I am unable to engage properly because everything has already happened around my character is just a complete nightmare, and defeats the advantages of collaboration. To this day I truly don't see how people can write 3+ large paragraphs with proper flow and accurate responses.

4: Fun - Writing in general to me is fun! I will not usually go out of my way to make my characters do things that are unrealistic for 'fun', but in general of course enjoyment is important for each side, and it's good to indulge sometimes. Imo all of the above usually amounts to plenty of fun.

5: Clarity - If there's ever a problem with clarity in a post, usually I just bring it up afterward to make sense of the event/request an edit, or roll with it. This is very rarely a problem I've encountered so eh. I just don't know what to value this one at, it's pretty straight forward that anyone needs to be clear to write together.


This is an interesting thread though, looking at other people's rankings gives a cool perspective! Maybe someday I will understand how descriptiveness is such a priority.

 

[GojiBean]

To be perfectly honest my priorities change from post to post depending on what's happening.

Still, here's how I rate the traits as asked about in the original post:

• Clarity - 10/10
• Tempo/Pacing - 7/10
• Flow - 8/10
• Fun - 8/10
• Descriptiveness - 2/10 to 8/10 (depends on whether or not "description" is necessary to the moment)
• Cleverness/Wit - 1/10

Reasoning below!

(Note: The following is 100% subjective opinion. Reader discretion is advised.)


Clarity is always my utmost priority because clarity is the single most important factor in providing the reader with an experience.

Readers read and role players roleplay because they're both looking for an experience. In other words, they want to feel something and be transported mind, body, and soul into the world we've crafted.

Clarity is the gateway to that experience.

Whether describing something (such as scenery, a character's physical appearance, the flow of a fight scene, etc), imparting emotional context, or giving the reader a gentle nudge down the rabbit hole of subtext and foreshadowing, clarity will make or break the experience for the reader before anything else will.


For tempo (aka pacing) and flow (two different concepts, by the way), I consider both to be important.

Pacing is the speed at which the scene/story is moving. Flow is how smooth the writing is overall, and how easy it is to read from line to line, page to page, and chapter to chapter. The two are not always, but can be, mutually exclusive.

For me, flow is the more important of the two as most readers will much more easily forgive a chapter/scene that has mediocre pacing so long as the chapter/scene flowed well and was easy to read.


Fun is always important. Regardless of the emotional context of the scene, chapter, or story overall, the reader should always have fun and be eager to turn the page. If I can't make the scenes fun and make the reader want to turn the page, then it's going to be that much harder for them to even want to continue reading my story.


Descriptiveness and providing a lot of detail was far more important to me when I was younger. As I've grown older I've come to understand the reality that description and providing detail only matters if it's relevant to either the story, the scene, or the characters.

But descriptive detail purely for the sake of providing descriptive detail is absolutely worthless, and a total waste of the reader's time and energy.

For example, If I'm going to spend five paragraphs describing a bustling and noisy marketplace in a medieval fantasy town in the intro of my roleplay (or the opening chapter of a novel), then I'd better do something with all that detail. It needs to mean something and carry some level of relevance to the scene, story, or characters in the paragraphs (or chapters) to follow.

Perhaps my main character is meeting a friend and sees them waving to them from across the market just above the heads of the crowd. To reach their friend they have to push and shove their way, or trying to slide the gaps between, the mass of people around them in order to reach them. When the reach each other they have to shout above the crowd noise around them because the place is just that damn busy. Through their shouting they manage to agree to get the hell outta there and find a quieter place to chat.

Later in the story, this same marketplace becomes the scene of a big battle between my character and a small group of evil forces. Their recollection of this market place's layout, and perhaps they happened to overhear the noisy crowd talking about such as "this one building still has broken windows, and that's a safety hazard," serves as a means for them to adapt and overcome against the number of enemies they faced. And one of the enemies they kill, they do so by slamming their head/neck into said broken windows slicing their throat open and making them bleed out.

Regardless of how they come back, the descriptive details have to either provide something relevant in the immediate or future of the story.

If in that same scene I described my characters simply as being able to see each other, walk up, clasp arms, and talk as normal, what was the point of those five paragraphs describing the bustling and noisy marketplace that serves as the backdrop of their meeting?

I said it before, and I'll die on this hill: Descriptive detail purely for descriptive detail's sake is absolutely worthless, and a waste of the reader's time.

It's for this reason why I typically prefer the "less is more" approach when it comes to my writing, and why I focus so much more on making sure that every detail I do provide either has an immediate or future function in the scene, character arc, or story. I seldom, if ever, provide any details which I know won't matter in the long run.

Readers don't remember the giant walls of text which do nothing but describe irrelevant details and make scenes/chapters longer than they otherwise needed to be. They remember the singular, well crafted, and intimate moments which made them feel something. The moments which gave them an experience.

You can give the readers an experience by providing them with a line of dialogue that's literally only a single well chosen word.

You cannot give readers an experience simply by dumping paragraph after paragraph of description at them when said description is irrelevant to anything they're going to experience after they finish the slog.


Finally, I personally don't give any thought to cleverness and wit.

Any perceived "cleverness" or "wit" in my writing is slave to my desire to provide an experience by focusing on the writing traits and practices which I've outlined as being the most important to me.

Just as money is a byproduct of success, clever/witty writing is a byproduct of sound fundamentals and diligent adherence to the best practices of the craft of storytelling.


At least, that's one man's opinion on the subject!

I look forward to seeing how everyone else looks at this topic!

 

[Jet]

GojiBean

Enjoyed your perspective, but tempo (in this post anyway) meant cadence. The actual speed of your writing dictated by word lengths and punctuation, and both stressed and unstressed syllables

I have no formal training, so perhaps my definition is incorrect, but for me,

Tempo for the speed.

Flow for fluidity.

Imo they're too connected, and too small to stand alone as categories. So I combined them.

 

[GojiBean]

GojiBean

Enjoyed your perspective, but tempo (in this post anyway) meant cadence. The actual speed of your writing dictated by word lengths and punctuation, and both stressed and unstressed syllables

I have no formal training, so perhaps my definition is incorrect, but for me,

Tempo for the speed.

Flow for fluidity.

Imo they're too connected, and small on their own, to stand alone as categories. So I combined them.

Understood.

Formally, this is the definition of 'cadence' (which equates to 'flow' according to your personal definition).

"Cadence is the rhythm that occurs when reading a piece of literature. Cadence is created when reading the balanced words and phrases in free verse and prose. Writers choose their words carefully, and by choosing certain words, certain rhythms are created through one's prose."

Punctuation and word choices definitely fit the definition of cadence. There's a tiny bit more to it than just that. But overall it's good enough of a definition.

Not sure if you're a music person. But if we were to equate this concept to music then cadence would be most closely equated with the time signature which, for anyone who doesn't know that term, dictates how many beats are in a single measure, which beats get the stress/emphasis, and whether or not there are particular sub-divisions of each major beat.

Tempo (or pacing), by contrast, is largely accepted to mean the placement of the story's major events which determines the overall pace of the journey from start to finish. Somewhat counterintuitively, it has very little to nothing to do with the actual "speed" of one's ability to read, or the "speed" of how fast you can make it through the story so much as how well the story's major events keep the reader engaged in what's going on. If you zoom in and talk about scene pacing, it's the same definition. The placement of the major events of a scene determine the tempo/pacing.

In music, this concept would be equated to song structure (intro, verse 1, chorus, verse 2, chorus, guitar solo, verse 3, chorus, outro as but one example).

An example of a poorly paced story is one in which all the major events happen after the halfway point, so the entire first half of the story is a slog of boredom and exposition dumps where the reader flips page after page wondering when the story actually begins. A well paced story will spread out the major events so that there's a minimal amount of exposition and info dumping, and the reader is more consistently engaged in the action from beginning to end.

However, like I said in my initial response I believe the cadence/flow is a bit more important than the tempo/pacing. A story with decent to mediocre pacing will be largely forgiven so long as everything reads well and has a good sense of flow to it.


Anywho! That's a more formal analysis of these concepts and how they relate to each other.

Regardless, do whatever is comfortable for you.

There's no rule or doctrine that states you have to know all the formal definitions to be good at writing, after all. Jimi Hendrix, one of the greatest to ever play the guitar, couldn't read or write sheet music. Yet he became one of the GOATs of guitar, and almost all of his songs are considered classics of Rock N' Roll.

So yeah. Whatever helps you make the most sense of all this shtuff and helps you write with confidence, do it! And enjoy your writing!

That's the most important thing of all is that YOU enjoy writing. If you enjoy it, others inevitably will enjoy it as well. It's infectious.

Cheers!