Warstriders are more than huge armor?

[Lord Kamina]

I saw some guy in the WW forums talking about he had modified the Warstrider rules to make them more akin to mecha than to huge suits of armor (With their own health levels, etc)


I am intrigued by this and was wondering if anybody here would have done something of the like and would care to share his houserules? (Or, alternatively, give suggestions on how to do it)

 

[greasy golem gunk]

I am intrigued by this and was wondering if anybody here would have done something of the like and would care to share his houserules? (Or, alternatively, give suggestions on how to do it)

Depends how in depth you want to go.


If you want to start the road to pile of extra dots / new character sheet, develop a warstrider as an Npc that the character pilots, or even give it a limited intellegence on its own.  By intellegence, I mean enough to function, but no where near as well as when piloted.  


Not an entirely original idea; that one Warstrider in "Kingdom of Halta" (1st Ed) was intellegent on its own and had clear views on who could use it, as well as some charms of its own.  If I recall, the charms were meant as Mecha-Pilot interaction plus Principles of Motion, but they could be anything that you think covers a basic "function of giant robot".


Another source might be the good part of Neon Genesis Evengelion, the Evas themselves.  Large biological entities reigned in by the armor and controled to a degree by confused teenagers who think they're just big brain controled robots (until they start bleeding, eating and moving on their own, but hey, it's anime, shoulda seen it coming).


A semi intellegent warstrider might make the more exotic shaped units more accessable to a wider selection of Exalted shapes (a moonsilver Wolf model wouldn't necesarrily require a wolf shaped pilot now?).


-I wonder if taming a wild warstrider is a good idea to give pc's.-


-or if making a giant robot open to social combat is either-


Maybe Ride charms become the new hotness for Warstrider pilots.


I like the idea of giving them their own health levels; it limits the effectivenes of a 5x Ox-Body warstrider pilot.  Also, if the warstrider had health levels, I'd suggest something to the effect of


-0 x 12 (for 12 points, it functions without penalty; made to get hit a lot)


-4 x6 (whoops, you needed that)


-incap (stops moving, get a mechanic).


Specific numbers can vary by Taste and catagory, but if their armor soak is still High, then it might not be wise to grant them Too many health levels as they'll never stop moving.


Your call if "the exalt ignores/mitigates wound penalties" helps the warstrider, if you go with the Ride route, then I see no issue with just applying ride charms to the strider itself.  They might make it seem overpowered, but really if the PC's want a warstrider, then they're also begging you to slap them with things that warstriders are made to fight (and never expected to fight).


I'd suggest limiting hearthstone buffs on the Warstrider to just the ones mounted in the strider itself.


I'm happy to help you bang out rules, but you'll have to keep me on track and moving towards how you'd like it to run.

 

[Lord Kamina]

I am intrigued by this and was wondering if anybody here would have done something of the like and would care to share his houserules? (Or, alternatively, give suggestions on how to do it)

Depends how in depth you want to go.


If you want to start the road to pile of extra dots / new character sheet, develop a warstrider as an Npc that the character pilots, or even give it a limited intellegence on its own.  By intellegence, I mean enough to function, but no where near as well as when piloted.  


Not an entirely original idea; that one Warstrider in "Kingdom of Halta" (1st Ed) was intellegent on its own and had clear views on who could use it, as well as some charms of its own.  If I recall, the charms were meant as Mecha-Pilot interaction plus Principles of Motion, but they could be anything that you think covers a basic "function of giant robot".


Another source might be the good part of Neon Genesis Evengelion, the Evas themselves.  Large biological entities reigned in by the armor and controled to a degree by confused teenagers who think they're just big brain controled robots (until they start bleeding, eating and moving on their own, but hey, it's anime, shoulda seen it coming).


A semi intellegent warstrider might make the more exotic shaped units more accessable to a wider selection of Exalted shapes (a moonsilver Wolf model wouldn't necesarrily require a wolf shaped pilot now?).


-I wonder if taming a wild warstrider is a good idea to give pc's.-


-or if making a giant robot open to social combat is either-


Maybe Ride charms become the new hotness for Warstrider pilots.


I like the idea of giving them their own health levels; it limits the effectivenes of a 5x Ox-Body warstrider pilot.  Also, if the warstrider had health levels, I'd suggest something to the effect of


-0 x 12 (for 12 points, it functions without penalty; made to get hit a lot)


-4 x6 (whoops, you needed that)


-incap (stops moving, get a mechanic).


Specific numbers can vary by Taste and catagory, but if their armor soak is still High, then it might not be wise to grant them Too many health levels as they'll never stop moving.


Your call if "the exalt ignores/mitigates wound penalties" helps the warstrider, if you go with the Ride route, then I see no issue with just applying ride charms to the strider itself.  They might make it seem overpowered, but really if the PC's want a warstrider, then they're also begging you to slap them with things that warstriders are made to fight (and never expected to fight).


I'd suggest limiting hearthstone buffs on the Warstrider to just the ones mounted in the strider itself.


I'm happy to help you bang out rules, but you'll have to keep me on track and moving towards how you'd like it to run.

I, at the very least, would want them to have their own health levels.


You see, I'm a big fan of mechs; though. I hate EVA with a passion you could probably not begin to imagine. (I'm more of a classic super-robot kind of guy... Mazinger, Getter Robo, Gaogaigar, etc)


I was thinking on something symbiotic and of expandable abilities (via hearthstones and other stuff perhaps)


On the WW forums, someone suggested I handle them as modified vehicles, and that is one alternative but I'm seeing what else I can find. Additionally,


And, they need to be POWERFUL. I am thinking on warstriders a terrestrial would use, and the idea would be for the wastrider to make up for the difference between a Celestial and him...

 

[greasy golem gunk]

I, at the very least, would want them to have their own health levels.


You see, I'm a big fan of mechs; though. I hate EVA with a passion you could probably not begin to imagine. (I'm more of a classic super-robot kind of guy... Mazinger, Getter Robo, Gaogaigar, etc)

Well, I just thought the Evas were the best part of that series.  


Eva was a pretty bad anime that looked pretty.  Shinji was boring, and the other characters were pretty one dimensional.  


I liked the robots.  Or battle angels.  or whatever they were,  on their own (Force field combat, using a force field to penetrate a force field, the implications that the thing was alive, Giant robots with knives..)  


There are other intellegent battle mecha; The Zone of the Enders video games revolved around an intellegent war machine that required a human pilot to function, but would otherwise be able to complete  a mission.  It was inactive, got a pilot into it, then started talking the pilot into doing what it felt it needed to.  


But intellegent warstriders aren't that important.  As a concept I thought it would start to let an exalt use Ride charms to suppliment the warstrider, but that can go into it's own thread.  Lets get back to you.

I was thinking on something symbiotic and of expandable abilities (via hearthstones and other stuff perhaps)


On the WW forums, someone suggested I handle them as modified vehicles, and that is one alternative but I'm seeing what else I can find. Additionally,


And, they need to be POWERFUL. I am thinking on warstriders a terrestrial would use, and the idea would be for the wastrider to make up for the difference between a Celestial and him...

So, give the strider it's own health levels (say, a dozen of one, a half dozen of another, incap), maybe have it split the damage two ways with the pilot if the health levels seem too small.  Rebuild the "fixing it" scale to be based on strider health levels rather than hours of use; would enlarge the time limits of warstrider piloting, but would pile up quicker in actual combat.  


But to make up the difference between a terrestrial and a celestial, beyond just giving the Terrestrial a giant robot with a tremendous Daiklaive, shoulder essence cannon (maybe something the hinders rather than hurt, say a Nerve weapon or a Goo gun that holds the victim in place, rendering most Dodge based DV's useless and forcing essence expenditures), maybe a Warstrider scaled shield..  


--The Stone can apply directly to the strider, maybe Elementals manses can apply an elemental property to the warstrider that goes beyond the traditional hearthstone benefit


*earth manses always add X soak,


*air grants Y mobility bonus (dodge, running, leaping)


*maybe enough wood manses and the Strider can start to self heal and lowering the ammount of Down time the strider has between battles (perhaps the celestial escapes, but the dragons can catch him before he fully recovers and after the scene ends, forcing greater essence expenditures on the celestial in question).


--With 2-5 sockets, the dragons would have to find the right mix of Hearthstones to split between their squad (and maybe recover stones from their fallen friends) to maximize their efforts.


--What about using the powers of the Dragon Armors (restrict foes essence use, force spirits to matierilze, reshape the earth around them) on warstriders?


--Enable the warstrider to act like a marionette on the Terrestrials strings, letting the Dragon engage the celestial in melee combat along side the Dragons warstrider?  This last one might make the warstrider into too much of a pet, but being able to Flank a target on your own is something to be reckoned with.


--Grant them a Soulsteel weapon that drains Essence on hit?  An exalt with no more motes to spend would be left with whatever scene length charms they activated, and whatever artifacts / stones they had.  This might be a lot, but they would be without perfect defenses, counterspells, Duck Fate and the like to make them even worse.


--I can't remember the name, but there is a rope artifact that lets you parry a spell, store it then throw it back later on.  What if your warstrider had a "protective bubble" that did a similar function (maybe only up to Terrestrial circle sorcery, but it would essentially be the same Rope but attached to a giant mecha).  This would make life harder on celestials relying on Sorcery to take down the Dragon blood in question.


--One advantage a terrestrial has over celestials is Numbers and teamwork.  Perhaps the warstriders enable the team of Dragons to share essence pools?  Artifact based group combos?  


--Grant warstrider based Specialty dice, to let a dragonblood further enhance his dicepool through charms?  Maybe it lets a dragonblood have Five specialty dice in Daiklaives, but only while piloting the warstrider.


As far as vehicle rules, I've never seen Storyteller rules on Cars and Planes that I've liked that much.

 

[Lord Kamina]

Well, I just thought the Evas were the best part of that series.  


Eva was a pretty bad anime that looked pretty.  Shinji was boring, and the other characters were pretty one dimensional.  


I liked the robots.  Or battle angels.  or whatever they were,  on their own (Force field combat, using a force field to penetrate a force field, the implications that the thing was alive, Giant robots with knives..)  


There are other intellegent battle mecha; The Zone of the Enders video games revolved around an intellegent war machine that required a human pilot to function, but would otherwise be able to complete  a mission.  It was inactive, got a pilot into it, then started talking the pilot into doing what it felt it needed to.  


But intellegent warstriders aren't that important.  As a concept I thought it would start to let an exalt use Ride charms to suppliment the warstrider, but that can go into it's own thread.  Lets get back to you.

I was thinking on something symbiotic and of expandable abilities (via hearthstones and other stuff perhaps)


On the WW forums, someone suggested I handle them as modified vehicles, and that is one alternative but I'm seeing what else I can find. Additionally,


And, they need to be POWERFUL. I am thinking on warstriders a terrestrial would use, and the idea would be for the wastrider to make up for the difference between a Celestial and him...

So, give the strider it's own health levels (say, a dozen of one, a half dozen of another, incap), maybe have it split the damage two ways with the pilot if the health levels seem too small.  Rebuild the "fixing it" scale to be based on strider health levels rather than hours of use; would enlarge the time limits of warstrider piloting, but would pile up quicker in actual combat.  


But to make up the difference between a terrestrial and a celestial, beyond just giving the Terrestrial a giant robot with a tremendous Daiklaive, shoulder essence cannon (maybe something the hinders rather than hurt, say a Nerve weapon or a Goo gun that holds the victim in place, rendering most Dodge based DV's useless and forcing essence expenditures), maybe a Warstrider scaled shield..  


--The Stone can apply directly to the strider, maybe Elementals manses can apply an elemental property to the warstrider that goes beyond the traditional hearthstone benefit


*earth manses always add X soak,


*air grants Y mobility bonus (dodge, running, leaping)


*maybe enough wood manses and the Strider can start to self heal and lowering the ammount of Down time the strider has between battles (perhaps the celestial escapes, but the dragons can catch him before he fully recovers and after the scene ends, forcing greater essence expenditures on the celestial in question).


--With 2-5 sockets, the dragons would have to find the right mix of Hearthstones to split between their squad (and maybe recover stones from their fallen friends) to maximize their efforts.


--What about using the powers of the Dragon Armors (restrict foes essence use, force spirits to matierilze, reshape the earth around them) on warstriders?


--Enable the warstrider to act like a marionette on the Terrestrials strings, letting the Dragon engage the celestial in melee combat along side the Dragons warstrider?  This last one might make the warstrider into too much of a pet, but being able to Flank a target on your own is something to be reckoned with.


--Grant them a Soulsteel weapon that drains Essence on hit?  An exalt with no more motes to spend would be left with whatever scene length charms they activated, and whatever artifacts / stones they had.  This might be a lot, but they would be without perfect defenses, counterspells, Duck Fate and the like to make them even worse.


--I can't remember the name, but there is a rope artifact that lets you parry a spell, store it then throw it back later on.  What if your warstrider had a "protective bubble" that did a similar function (maybe only up to Terrestrial circle sorcery, but it would essentially be the same Rope but attached to a giant mecha).  This would make life harder on celestials relying on Sorcery to take down the Dragon blood in question.


--One advantage a terrestrial has over celestials is Numbers and teamwork.  Perhaps the warstriders enable the team of Dragons to share essence pools?  Artifact based group combos?  


--Grant warstrider based Specialty dice, to let a dragonblood further enhance his dicepool through charms?  Maybe it lets a dragonblood have Five specialty dice in Daiklaives, but only while piloting the warstrider.


As far as vehicle rules, I've never seen Storyteller rules on Cars and Planes that I've liked that much.

Some of the ideas you gave are truly amazing. I'll see which ones I can use... I forgot to say, however, that I'm working on a really twisted custom setting. It doesn't really have anything to do with creation and in fact it's a sci-fi setting.


But for all simplicity's and this post's sake, the good guys are terrestrials and the bad guys are spirits and/or celestials.


But the setting itself, from the cosmology to the actual places has changed in ways that would make some people want to hang and let me to dry.


With respect to the powerscale, I have thought of perhaps the strider itself having charms or allowing access to more powerful sorcery (a-la-Mantle of Brigid), but in general, I want it to boost the user's essence and not just make him imponent in physical combat.


I wouldn't have the Warstriders be controlled remotely for many reasons some of which include the possibility for space combat. (I have also never liked that)


The idea of elemental benefits is something I might use.


What are those Dragon Armors? I don't think I've heard of them but they sound like something that might well be of use.


-----------------------------------


Anyway, you have been and I hope, continue to be, of much help.


PS: ZoE 2 is probably one of the best PS2 games to date. The gameplat was incredible, and try as it may, Another Century Episode hasn't been able to match it.

 

[greasy golem gunk]

What are those Dragon Armors? I don't think I've heard of them but they sound like something that might well be of use.

They're terrestrial themed Power armors;


1st Ed Air Aspect introduced them,


1st Ed The Outcaste expanded them (in the lookshy section)


2nd Ed "The Books of Sorcery, Vol1" Wonders of the Lost Age expands upon them, introduces some Celestial level versions, fleshes out the artificial limbs introduced in 1st ed Blood and Salt, as well as a big bad section on Warstriders.  


It's a big book of Artifacts, and I'm sure I referenced it more than a few times in my posts here, so I'm not claiming any creative credit here.


If you have $25, it might be worth your time.  Might not, depending on how different artificing is in your setting.  Give it a browse first, and have fun getting your mecha on.

 

[Lord Kamina]

What are those Dragon Armors? I don't think I've heard of them but they sound like something that might well be of use.

They're terrestrial themed Power armors;


1st Ed Air Aspect introduced them,


1st Ed The Outcaste expanded them (in the lookshy section)


2nd Ed "The Books of Sorcery, Vol1" Wonders of the Lost Age expands upon them, introduces some Celestial level versions, fleshes out the artificial limbs introduced in 1st ed Blood and Salt, as well as a big bad section on Warstriders.  


It's a big book of Artifacts, and I'm sure I referenced it more than a few times in my posts here, so I'm not claiming any creative credit here.


If you have $25, it might be worth your time.  Might not, depending on how different artificing is in your setting.  Give it a browse first, and have fun getting your mecha on.

I do have that book, I just haven't read it thoroughly because I'm not STing yet and am in fact playing a friend's campaign... Wouldn't want to spoil myself all the awesome artifacts.


I'll see about this Dragon Armors, though...