Warstriders: A Return to Glory

[Kyeudo]

Warstriders have both intriqued me and bugged me since I read about them in Wonders of the Lost Age. Drawing from such sources as Vision of Escaflowne, Gundam, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, and dozens of other mecha anime, they rightly should inspire awe and terror in characters within the setting. A duel between warstriders should be like unto a clash between two Greek gods, a battle to shake the earth and decide the fate of nations.


However, we got handed super-rocket tag. A warstider, as given in Dreams of the First Age, is a mass produced, clunky suit of powered armor that loses in almost every way to a suit of Celestial Battle Armor and a good old fashioned Grand Daiklave. A duel between two warstriders is short, brutal, and not particularly interesting.


So, I have attempted to fix the system, as I am want to do with just about everything. This particular fix has been percolating through my head for the past six months or so and only now is finally in a complete enough state for viewing by the general public.


So, without further ado, here's the finished product.


Be brutal. Tell me anything you think is screwy, from layout to wording to whole concepts.

 

[uteck]

Reading through it now, but a crazy thought occurred to me;


What if you modified the Manse creation rules and treated warstriders as a mobile Manse? That would certainly make them unique and very powerful. It's not just a walking tank, it's a fraking walking castle!


And it negates the need for adding heartstones to it since it is self powering and you use the manse creation rules to build and modify it. I always found it odd that a tiny little stone will power a warstrider or some other artifact a fraction the size and power.

 

[Kyeudo]

I think what you suggest sort of takes the individuality out of warstriders. There's something about the clash of bases that just doesn't quite seem as awesome as the clash of titans.


Also, the hearthstone is just the physical manifestation of the connection to the manse. It's size is irrelevant to how much power is flowing out of the manse.

 

[Moonstone Spider]

I think what you suggest sort of takes the individuality out of warstriders. There's something about the clash of bases that just doesn't quite seem as awesome as the clash of titans.

Spoiler

 

[Kyeudo]

I think what you suggest sort of takes the individuality out of warstriders. There's something about the clash of bases that just doesn't quite seem as awesome as the clash of titans.

Spoiler

I only see one robot.

 

[Moonstone Spider]

Look down below Metroplex's left hand. That's where Sixshot is.


More seriously, I don't see the difference myself. If your awesome fortress turns into an awesome robot that smashes the enemy that seems just as good as a non-transforming awesome robot that smashes the enemy. Maybe even moreso.

 

[Dezeroth]

I think what you suggest sort of takes the individuality out of warstriders. There's something about the clash of bases that just doesn't quite seem as awesome as the clash of titans.

Spoiler

would be an interesting high essence alchemical charm

 

[uteck]

I still need to look back over the original warstrider rules in depth to see hows yours is different, but do your rules solve the problem of Battle Armor being more effective then a Common Warstrider? I am too lazy to do the comparison, but it seems that your 'striders are about the same as the ones in the book.

 

[Kyeudo]

Look down below Metroplex's left hand. That's where Sixshot is.
More seriously, I don't see the difference myself. If your awesome fortress turns into an awesome robot that smashes the enemy that seems just as good as a non-transforming awesome robot that smashes the enemy. Maybe even moreso.

I meant that there's still only just one massive titan there, only one character being awesome. Mobile bases have their own type of awesome, but its very cooperative, with whole groups of people manning guns, directing soliders, and manuvering the base. There's no singular glory to it.

I still need to look back over the original warstrider rules in depth to see hows yours is different, but do your rules solve the problem of Battle Armor being more effective then a Common Warstrider? I am too lazy to do the comparison, but it seems that your 'striders are about the same as the ones in the book.

Which level of battle armor are we talking about? The nastiest three dot armor seems to be Gunzosha Commando Armor, which does have the edge in accuracy, stealth, and perception over a common warstrider, but you don't use a warstrider for stealth or perception. You use a warstrider for sheer crushing power. A default common warstrider in my system has 7 points more soak, at least 3 more dots of Strength, and covers 5 times more ground. A "Virgo" model common warstrider (see the example warstriders) has 15 points more soak and at least 7 dots more Strength over the Gunzosha Commando and still moves 5 times faster. Now, you can't use a warstrider for as long as a Gunzosha Commando Armor and usually you suffer a higher mobility penalty while doing so, but the common warstrider has a place in the same arena.


Now, if you mean Celestial Battle Armor, then the appropriate comparison is not to a common warstrider, but to a royal or colossus warstrider. If you took all the soak enhancing options for Celestial Battle Armor, it has 32 points of lethal soak. The same level of focus on a Royal or Colossus Warstrider garners you 47 soak (both use soulsteel and Oblvion's Panoply, so more often these numbers witll only be 15 and 28). Using Enchanted Stride, a character with Celestial Battle Armor can move at 20 times his normal speed for one action. With a warstrider built for speed, he can sustain that rate for as long as he can deal with his warstrider's Endurance penalty. Celestial Battle Armor brings only the wearer's Strength +2 to the battle field. A Royal Warstrider brings at least 14 Strength to the battlefield and a Colossus brings 16 minimum.


As for options, warstriders win hands down in my rules. Celestial Battle Armor gets 3 choices from 16 options. A Royal Warstrider gets 2-4 choices from 26 options, with further ways to get more choices. Then there is the option of the Warstrider AI. In the previous version of the rules, this was a 10-30 mote battery with maybe 5 additonal Charms for a minimum cost of 3 dots. In my rules, it's like you took Ally dots to be friends with your warstrider's god. One dot only gets you a 35 mote battery. Five dots gets you your own mechanic, energy shielding, radar, invisible scouting, automated weapons, a radio, aggravated damage against one type of creatures, a targeting system, and a possible 80 mote battery and that's just one possible set of Charm selections for your AI. Heck, if you wanted to and your Storyteller allowed it, you could have your character be the AI for your friend's Royal Warstrider. You'd just have to dig out the advancement rules from the RoGD1's errata.


Basically, Celestial Battle Armor's main advantage over a warstrider using the new rules is that Celestial Battle Armor lacks any sort of major drawback, while a warstrider has many. Of the two, however, the warstrider is bringing much more bang for your buck.

 

[uteck]

The comparison between old rules and yours helps put things in place. Your new rules make warstriders seem more awesome, but I am thinking it is not quite enough to make them truly feared.


As to my comment about using manse rules, I was not envisioning a mobile base, but the giant power armor that is a warstrider with the new 3 point power Warstrider which mandates no heartstone and gives the 2 point Central Control power and the 3 point power Fortress (without the fixed fortifications).


Taking the maintenance flaw should be optional, so there could be some warstiders that do not need it, but without the extra points they will have fewer options. So you could have a 3 point manse/warstrider with 9 build points to spend on powers. 3 points for Warstrider, 3 points for Armored for 14L/21B, leaving 3 to play with unless maintenance is taken. The normal limit on buying power would be lifted so a 3 point 'strider could buy 4 and 5 point powers.


It comes close to matching what you have, but the armor is weaker using this method, but it has 75 health levels before it goes boom.

 

[Brickwall]

I'm not a huge fan of warstriders. I like the idea, but I can never seem to make them fit enjoyably in games, as a player or an ST.


But I still like this fix. Probably needs tweaking for individual games, but what doesn't?


Maybe include some more upper-level warstriders to help people out? The file I downloaded had none.

 

[Kyeudo]

Maybe include some more upper-level warstriders to help people out? The file I downloaded had none.

I'll be updating it soon with the revised stats for Ingdrast's Bane, Pasiap's Mighty Fist, Unyielding Fury of Righteousness, and Hateful Devourer of Love as well as a couple of my own creations.

 

[Kyeudo]

Alright, the classic warstriders are up except for Hateful Devourer of Love, there is a new material-specific warstrider AI Charm for each material, a pair of servitor specific Charms, and several corrected typos. Let me know what you think.


Cookies for anyone who gets the reference in Weight of Judgement.

 

[Moonstone Spider]

Well I've finished reading over the stuff now and I have to say, it's really good. One thing I wonder, is if it wouldn't be worth making these rules available to model every sort of vehicle instead of just warstriders. Just add a "Chassis" option at the beginning to pick out Warstrider, Tank, Airship, or Seaship and then slap on appropriate options.


And Weight of Judgement seems to be a Big-O reference. . .

 

[Kyeudo]

Well I've finished reading over the stuff now and I have to say, it's really good. One thing I wonder, is if it wouldn't be worth making these rules available to model every sort of vehicle instead of just warstriders. Just add a "Chassis" option at the beginning to pick out Warstrider, Tank, Airship, or Seaship and then slap on appropriate options.

I don't think genralizing the rules would be a good idea. Captains can escape a sinking ship. No one escapes a defeated warstrider.

And Weight of Judgement seems to be a Big-O reference. . .

Have a cookie.


My main goal in revising warstriders (and especially warstrider AI) was to make them at least as cool as Big O.

 

[BenTipex]

I love it... It does an awfully good job of making warstriders awesome again. I'm going to use these rules in my next game (I have a player who intend to play an twilight who exalted stealing a warstrider from the DB's), and if I find anything bad when playtesting, i'll get back to you on it. Otherwise, when reading it, it seems great!


Congrats!