Void/Solar circles and Eclipse/Moonshadow castes

[Persell]

Well this thread is fairly dead now, but just to finish it off I found a quote from a WW designer talking about the Eclipse Anima ability:


g_c_grabowski - 11/21/2002 10:13:23 - raindog@white-wolf.com


>>>Man, you Eclipse players sure are spoiled. You get to sanctify oaths, you get diplomatic immunity, AND you can learn just about any kind of Charm there is. And you're bitching about not being able to learn literally any Charm.<<<


You'll notice how the developer seems strangely deaf to their complaints. =)


Much Lunar magic is linked with their inherent power of changing shape. You could learn the Charms, but you couldn't use them, because you're not a Lunar. You're also not going to be able to learn Void-circle necromancy or Sidereal astrology. If you want to beat your game to death with a stick, hey, you all know the Golden Rule. However, I think the reason why those Charms are barred is terribly obvious -- it would unbalance things and it doesn't mesh with the unique nature of Lunars in the setting. If you don't like it, you can change it, but don't come running to the Forum about how broken the Eclipse Caste power is. =)


Geoffrey C. Grabowski Exalted Developer, WWGS raindog@white-wolf.com

 

[Haku1]

Personally, I would allow eclipses to learn the CHARMS as a theoretical exercise. The actual SPELLS... well... only if you're willing to give your shiney gold aura and go goth. Vice versa for Moonshadows mastering Adamant circle as a charm.

 

[dreamspawn]

HU???


I always wondered about the Eclipce and void magic, may I just say NOT in my game, it ruines the feel of solars.


But personaly I dont see a reason why not after all if they can find a teacher....


But let me just say solar/void nonononononononono, personaly that is  


in case any of my players are reading this.

 

[Ralodoc]

I'm seeing that this debate could easily teeter-totter either way, so I'll simply say let it be the storyteller's choice. If you do decide to let those castes learn the highest level of sorcery, find a way to make it rather difficult to do so. Otherwise, say no and stand by it. In any game the storyteller can over-rule anything written in a book, especially if he thinks it'll make the game run better or smoother.

 

[Sherwood]

For every rule, there exists a exception.  It is stated that Dragon-Blooded cannot cast spells above Terrestrial level, but the Empress did have a artifact that allowed her to cast Celestial level magic.  If it works in your game world, go for it.  If it doesn't, don't let the players do it.  


One thing I am hammering home on the heads of my players is that magic just doesn't come floating down from the sky held in the beak of a cute little birdie.  You have to learn it from somewhere - a book, a artifact, or a person to teach you.  Take a powerful Solar that has survived the Wyld Hunt long enough to gain enough Essence to just be able to learn the charm of Solar level sorcery.  In the Book of Three Circles it describes having the players go through tremendous quests to gain each level of sorcery ability.  Then, add the time and effort to learn a Solar level spell, or invent one of her own, for that matter.  Now, lets have Joe Abyssal come walking up.  "Hey buddy, that is a nifty spell you have there.  Could you teach it to me?"


What could possibly motivate the Solar to go and give such a powerful tool to a Abyssal?  Even if there are promises made that the Abyssal wont use the spell against the Solar, my response would be, 'Yeah, right.  Tell me another good one.'


Take a look from the other side.  Jack Deathlord is chilling out in his castle in the Underworld, plotting the destruction of Creation.  Then, Larry the Solar comes up and says, "Out of the goodness of your heart, could you pretty please teach me Void level necromancy?"  Let me think about this one for a moment.  No, I dont think so.  Not so much.  Hmmm, perhaps if the Solar becomes the DL's bitch and lets his Essense be corrupted to a Abyssal, puts his nuts on the chopping block or in a set of Soulsteel chains - maybee.


I just can't see this happening in any reasonable sense.  A lower circle spell could be picked up in a book, but what person in their right mind would commit knowledge like that to a book that can be taken away?  No, not in my game.  For what it's worth.

 

[Persell]

If you want Solars to have (or have had) Void Circle in your game, exploit what's right there: the requisite connection to the Malfeans. We know that First Age Solars occasionally pledged themselves to the Yozis, so why not the Malfeans too? Prior to the Malfeans learning how to corrupt Solar Essences, maybe the best they could do was extend a tendril of their power through the Solar's oaths of servitude.


If a Solar did that in my game (pre-Abyssal creation), I'd totally let them learn Void Circle. Of course, they'd be as much the Malfeans' bitch as any Abyssal, but the curse would be far more focussed on them rather than the world around them.

 

[dreamspawn]

Well............


to be fair magic of all types is realy the twilight's ace card, to say that the eclipces can do it better kind of defeats the perpouse of that class, they are the BEST sorccerers, Best lore makers, best crafts man, ect, just like dawn are best at combat, and zenith are best at leading people and serviving.


So No i would not allow it in my game it makes the eclipse better at something than there superiors at it, after all acording to the boioks it was the twilight who descovered necromancy, they were the first to find the labarinth level.

 

[Jerob]

Another helpful quote would be The Autochthonians, pg. 285.


"He [The First and Forsaken Lion] also has a comprehensive knowledge of Solar Circle Sorcery spells learned before his death and corruption that he can no longer access."


So although an Abyssal or DL could KNOW of the sorceries of the Adamant Circle, s/he can most certainly not use them.


Not to be a jerk, but at least some Deathlords must have access to Solar Circle sorcery...


The Abyssals pg 104 Under "Walker's Curse"


"This curse consists of six Labyrinth Circle spells and one Solar Circle spell." This is of course the curse cast by Princess with Lips of Coral and Robes of Black Feathers on her former manse. So...yeah, thats all I have to add.

 

[Flagg]

Another example of WW not actually checking what their authors submit for consistency.


-S