Vertigo Inspired Theme...

[Jakk Bey]

Been re-reading Lucifer and Books of Magic: Life During Wartime, and it's been percolating an idea or two.  The nice folks from DC's Vertigo have been good for inspiration before, and the following is an idea that's been working its way up.


Imagine a cabal of Arch-Magi from the the World of Darkness.  We're talking Arch Spheres and a group of Magi who are sick of the wars, the whole Ascension hoo raw, and all the competition from other critters.  


This cabal insteads seeks to start over.  To make a world for heros and great deeds, for legends.  The cabal heads deep into the Wyld, further than anyone has gone before, and there they put together their Creation.


Influenced by myth and legends, the Magi craft their universe, building it to their specifications, creating not only the land, earth, oceans, sky, but the Spirits and Gods to help them administrate and run their grand experiment.  They bill themselves as the Primordials of their Creation.  They are, if nothng else, traditionalists and are steeped in the legends of the WoD.


Now then, the Magi aren't stupid.  They build a Universe that favors them, insures their power, their immortality, and their creations are bound to them, and the Universe works in their favor. But, they are only human, and as Magi, they are particularly prone to hubris, so they forget a few things from time to time, get lost in projects, and play their favorites.  


Then, because their Creation is flawed, their servants rise against them.  While they've jiggered the game in their favor, they have left a few clauses wide open, and the Gods raise up their Exalted and war upon their masters.  The Magi are cast down, but since they've jiggered the game, they aren't able to die, but the Gods still manage to bind those who survive.  Trapped, the Magi's minds fracture, and the Yozi are born.  


The only "Primordials" who stay free are the ones who emulates Autocthon and Gaia.


That's the initial set up.  World of Darkness linked to the Age of Sorrows, in reverse order.  


But, let's add a new element.  Real Infernals, cast out by Arch Magics, find the Creation, lost in the Deep Wyld.  Not Magi-Mind-Fracture Demons of id and human hubris, expanded by their near Ascension, but real Infernals.  Demons not bound by the rules that the Yozi agreed to.  Demons from outside the Creation, alien to anything within it, and while not worse than the frayed edges of the expanded but fractured minds of the Yozi, they are different than any Demons that the Creation knows of.


The question is: how quickly do these alien demons reveal the "truth" to the residents of the Creation?  Do they?  Do they just take advantage of the pocket Realm, vast as it appears to the residents?  Do they harvest souls, or do they seek to free their "brethren" Demons to reap their power?

 

[Solfi]

Ah, but how will these new Infernal presences react with the metaphysical set up of the "Primordials" Creation? Who are to say their powers are nto diminished, when entering a new Realm, of the Archmagis devising.


Perhaps they become like the Raksha, who have to take on a set shape when entering the world? Are their powers limited? Or are they morphed by the diffferent cosmology present?

 

[Jakk Bey]

That is the problem that I'm wrestling with.


I am figuring that the Infernals will be changed upon entering the Creation--not into a set shape or form, but perhaps into the power limits of the Spirits that inhabit the Creation--no funky changes mechanics-wise to Spirit Charms.  


But, without the limits of the very bindings upon the Yozi's own names, and without the limits that were set upon Demons by Magi in the Tellurian, these Demons will be very much freed to do all sorts of mischief--mind you, to do so, and to be most effective, they would mime and pretend that they're limited, but that to further ensnare and tempt critters from the Creation, and to not draw too much attention.


I'm pulling together a plot that involves a trapped Demon, Bound not by Sorcery, but by another Demon who has had to wrestle the bastiche down, and gotten itself trapped, along with its quarry, and the metaphysical differences between the two will become apparent when some poor bastard frees them, and the alien Demon is able to ignore the circle and protections--because these critters signed no pacts and made no promises.  They can be coerced and compelled by brute force, and then their word will be their bond--upon their own names--but the problem is that there aren't records of these critters in the Creation.  


Maybe back in Miami or London, but not in the Creation.  


Which means the PCs are going to have to come up with ways to coerce and compell these alien Demons.  The problem being, that most practical Demonology applies to the fractures in the Primordial mindset, not real Infernal critters...

 

[Jukashi]

But then wouldn't Gaia get up and take some action? She'd have been playing by the rules of Creation far longer than these invading demons.

 

[Jakk Bey]

Because she got so much up in arms with the whole Rakasha thing and the invasion from her sibling Auto?  


That is part of the theme--exploring the frangible nature of a sense of responsibility in folks and their playthings.  


The Primordials made their toy--call it an experiment or grand design, but they set out to make something, and control it.  And their sense of responsibility for their toy was sporadic, at best.  And with the Games of Divinity, it faded even further.  And they paid the price for it, both for their hubris and for their lack of responsibility.


Could Gaia's sense of responsibility be awakened?  Good question--but where was her responsibility when the Creation was being decimated by the Great Contagion?  By the Wyld surging?  And when the Wyld surged, it swallowed up whole areas into itself--pieces of Gaia as it were--and she did...what?  


While I think that an Awakening Gaia storyline might be neat, and it might be a nice touchstone to have Solars tracking down means to investigate these alien critters--which are in a way, just a means to expose the nature of the Creation, and thus are just a framework for the greater plot to reveal the nature of the Universe, and possibly transcend it, or bring these lost souls either back to the Realms, or at least understand their place in the Universe...

 

[Vanman]

Could Gaia's sense of responsibility be awakened?  Good question--but where was her responsibility when the Creation was being decimated by the Great Contagion?  By the Wyld surging?  And when the Wyld surged' date=' it swallowed up whole areas into itself--pieces of Gaia as it were--and she did...what?[/quote']
The following statements are made with only the most vague sense of what Mage is, having never really played it, nor of the full workings of Gaia as a canon deity. But that lack of knowledge has never stopped me before.


Could it be that she couldn't be assed? That she was just so hit by ennui that she couldn't care less? But, now that demons - from her own time and place, so to speak - have shown up, it's been enough to rouse her from her slumber?


Maybe she was in opposition to the original Magi and their plans, particularly when she saw the way the 'Primordials' were treating their creation. If she'd been in the WoD, she would have left, but, being where she is, she can't now and so she's stuck someplace she doesn't want to be. And it's all proven too much. It's not until those demons from her own world show up that her life gains some purpose.


Or not.


:-)

 

[malhimweaver]

On the subject of Demons....


I always like the idea that Demon happened first, then Exalted, and then as that whole entropic effect of God's hand striking the world kicked in, everything slowly lessened till we got to modern day WOD.


Cause lets face it, after thousands of years, peoples memories, even immortal ones such as Chejop Kejak are gonna get rusty. So whos to say that the  Primordials aren't the fallen angels of Demon. Demon has reference to beings called the malhim, who were "men raised up to the status of angels".  Note the word "exalt" means to raise up.


Also with other similarities: such as the Hunters having virtues, powers associated with light and radiance, and the tendancy to go start raving mad. The Keui-jin being aspected to the five elements, and worshiping a Scarlet Empress. Wraith having 13 Deathlords and Exalted having 13 Deathlords                                                                                                                                                                                ..........And for that matter Abyssals being weakened by the sun and having to drink blood to survive in Creation.  I think these similarities are deliberate, because really, how hard would it have been to call the Scarlet Empress something else? The Resplendent Empress? The August Personage. The Emerald Princess?   I mean, Kindred of the East was already dead in the water, so why reuse something unless you had a specific reason to?


Anyway, back to my first topic:


I had two levels of demons in my Exalted game. The first were the Yozis, and their various composite souls that made up the lesser demons.


The second were the Malfeans, trapped in Oblivion and with them were........ you guessed it, the Fallen angels, the Primordials ( in old WOD, Oblivion was the Abyss, the prison on the demons at the base of the underworld they helped create. Major burn!)


One of my players summoned out a Fallen, and she was a Halaku. She was A) just happy to be out and B) Mightly pissed about the state of Creation and especially the state of the Underworld. The new management had really screwed that one up.

 

[Solfi]

Demon has reference to beings called the malhim, who were "men raised up to the status of angels".

Not that I have read Demon, but for some reason the term "Nephilim" keeps popping into my head when you say that (Nephilim were offspring brought on by Angel / Human breeding)...


And speaking of which, if you want to read an interesting take on the creation myth (at least, it was very inspirational to me), read Anne Rice's "Memnoch the Devil" (the last of her Vampire books purely about Lestat). After hearing bad things about it, I finally picked it up and was very pleasantly surprised. Lestat is really secondary to *why* I found it pleasant. Said creation myth is what I found fascinating.

 <snip>...so why reuse something unless you had a specific reason to?

... because you can. Geoffrey has actually said that he just ripped off everything and anything he thought was cool from other work by WW. Without making excuses and/or giving explanation. Which is why I find the whole "is AoS really the precursor to WoD"-thing, because really, that's just up to you.


WW just happened to sit on a treasure trove of cosmologies, and Geoffrey grabbed (pun intended) whatever he damn well wanted. Of course, the fact that this sparked a whole debate is a bonus, but I don't think that entered into the equation more than as a pleasing side-effect.

 

[Persell]

Hi,


Im a huge fan of Vertigo TPB's and have all their series except the Invisibles (working on it). I heard the new books of magic (far superior to the drivel that came before it, excluding Neil Gaimans original tpb) has been cancled. Can anyone confirm this?


It doesnt seem right that the original 7 TPB series got published till its conclusion when it was abysmal.


I really liked Life during Wartime and hope to read more. Please dispel the rumors ive heard of its cancelation. I live in Australia so it may be were just behind in releases.


Thanks in advance for any news,


Clockpunk

 

[Jakk Bey]

Think of it less cancelled, as the story arc is complete.  And it was.  It was always supposed to be a limited series, rather than an ongoing.  And yes, it is done.  And rather nicely, I thought.