The Pooka
Resident Hobgoblin
Coyotes work better when they're rare anywise. 
Canada is Raven territory, by the by.
Canada is Raven territory, by the by.
Urban fantasy, a world of magic hidden right in front of our eyes
- Thread starter Project Brazen II
- Start date
Project Brazen II
Qi Collector
This is what happens with lazy list looking. I see ravens all the time.
Project Brazen II
Qi Collector
I thank you for clarifying. I was taking a cursory glance at the beliefs of the Mohawk and Iroquois peoples but I have to admit I didn't get very far.
The Pooka
Resident Hobgoblin
Well, a Native American angle would be an interesting way to go. All those Wendigo and Baykok and Skin-walkers and colourful totemic gods.
Project Brazen II
Qi Collector
I do think that it is worthy of being represented. Though my tendency on such matters is that if I feel I can't represent it well it is better to avoid. Still taking some time to see if I can find credible resources to better educate myself can't hurt.
Kagura
Robot Sheep
Neat idea~ can't say it hasn't been done before but still poses much interest!
I don't think anyone really has chosen between your three ideas, but if I could I'm definitely interested in the last. I feel like it could even be used for an end-all be-all for the first idea of the the overworlders just ending up in the underworld.
As for location, I feel as long as people aren't ridiculous about common sense (which they tend to be) Toronto is workable.
Although I am biased~
I don't think i have much else to sayyy >u>
I don't think anyone really has chosen between your three ideas, but if I could I'm definitely interested in the last. I feel like it could even be used for an end-all be-all for the first idea of the the overworlders just ending up in the underworld.
As for location, I feel as long as people aren't ridiculous about common sense (which they tend to be) Toronto is workable.
Although I am biased~
I don't think i have much else to sayyy >u>
Project Brazen II
Qi Collector
Given how much interest there seems to be in playing underworlders I imagine I will have to go with number three if there's going to be any attention paid to overworld life. I am happy at the all the tentative interest though and I'm looking forward to formalizing this over the weekend so people can get a clearer impression of what to expect.
Project Brazen II
Qi Collector
Okay so I think I have a tentative playable faction list sorted out. As implied before the humans of Toronto Below are largely people who have slipped through the cracks of society and historical cultures have been preserved to a degree. 18th and early 19th century weapons and customs will be common. Also please note that the human factions are not exclusively human in membership but they are mostly human. Your character doesn't necessarily need to be part of a faction, they can be independent or if you have small custom faction that you think would fit in the world you can to pitch it to me. I will give more fleshed out details on the factions when I post the roleplay but hopefully this will give you a rough idea how things look.
Factions
Iroquois - The most adapted human group in Toronto Below, they are the most powerful and influential human faction. Generally warm and inviting, yet quick and firm in how they respond to perceived offences. They are the least stuck in the past of the human groups, yet still put a high value on tradition. When asked what brought their ancestors to Toronto Below most will simply reply that they found it was a place that they thrive without any interference to their own autonomy or culture. Despite living hidden away from conventional society, they are happy and prosperous.
Loyalists - The second most powerful and influential human group of Toronto Below. Descendants of people loyal to the British Empire who fled America when it was formed. These are the ones whose fervour for the Empire made it difficult for them to adapt to ever evolving British North America for one reason or another. While some have had enough stories passed down them of Iroquois that bravely supported the British Empire to have admiration for them, most hold a seething resentment towards the Iroquois people as they feel that the Loyalists should rightfully rule Toronto Below. They are generally hostile and territorial, yet put a high value etiquette and their own form of civility. They typically assert their superiority by frequently warring with the Fenians.
Fenians - Descendants of Irish nationalists that were pushed underground for the perception that they were associated with the radical group of American Fenians that desired to occupy Upper Canada by force so that they could ransom it to the British Empire. Despite frequent harassment from Loyalists they have managed to stake out their own territory in Toronto Below and remain proudly Irish. They have at times turned to the Iroquois to intervene on their behalf when aggressions have become particularly bad and some, considering safety more valuable than independence, have even joined the Iroquois.
Mohawk - Descendants of a group that decided to neither join Iroquois Nation nor assimilate to British rule. They lived on the margins of society for some time and eventually found their way into Toronto Below. Easily the earliest group of people to find the underworld, they remain a small band of wanderers. Mostly peaceful, yet wary of contact with outside peoples and willing to use force to protect themselves. Due to their lifestyle they likely know the layout of Toronto Below better than almost anyone else there.
Animal talkers - Easily the largest in number of humans in Toronto Below, yet the most insignificant in terms of power and influence. They are frequently ignored by most others, yet when the situation calls for it friendly relations between the Animal talkers and other factions are not unheard of. They survive largely in the margins between the overworld and the underworld. Animal talkers are among those that are most likely to venture into the overworld but they are underworld enough that they are rarely noticed by overworlders and when they are noticed they are quickly forgotten. While learning the language of the animals isn't uncommon in the underworld, few go to the effort of being fluent in the language of every wild animal of the city. They exist as humble servants to these animals, showing them great reverence. Animal talkers largely live in destitution any education, training or weaponry available to them is crude and improvised.
Vampires - Standard vampires, drink blood, hate the sunlight. They can go for weeks without feeding but are generally happier when they have fed recently. Civilized in their own manner, they are generally reviled and considered violent and untrustworthy by others of the underworld. Possibly the main reason they haven't been actively hunted down and exterminated is because they have had the wisdom not to anger the Iroquois and have ingratiated themselves to the Loyalists and Fenians by hiring themselves out to settle the occasional feud in particularly messy ways. They get by mostly by feeding on Animal talkers.
Leanan sidhe - Vicious rivals of the vampires as they both sustain themselves on the living. While they are feared, they are less hated than vampires as they are considered less violent, more benevolent and quite simply better company. Less physically imposing than vampires, they are still quite dangerous and an experienced Leanan sidhe can drain an average human of their life quite rapidly if they are inclined to. Wikipedia suggests they are strictly female but I'm fine with the idea of male Leanan sidhe if anyone is interested.
Fairy Collective - A collective of various kinds of generally benevolent fairy folk. While generally not malignant, members of the Fairy Collective are considered fickle and spiteful when offended. Not much is known of them and they tend to avoid the human politics of Toronto Below, however, they are rumoured to have an affection for the Fenians who are quite reverent to the Collective.
Wulver - Mysterious wolfmen of the underworld. Usually peaceful but isolationist. They rarely leave their small patch of territory, which most people don't even know how to locate. While not liking outsiders the Wulvers have taken a strong affinity for the Mohawk people and look forward to their visits when they occur.
I'm also currently in the process of working out how the magic system will work. What I have is mind is that magic for humans will have extremely specialized users. Think seers and healers, not catch all mages. Most magics will be hereditary but there are some types that can be learned by anyone willing to put the effort to it. Regardless, mastery of magic takes extreme commitment and time. Even a gifted 30 year old is often considered a novice.
Factions
Iroquois - The most adapted human group in Toronto Below, they are the most powerful and influential human faction. Generally warm and inviting, yet quick and firm in how they respond to perceived offences. They are the least stuck in the past of the human groups, yet still put a high value on tradition. When asked what brought their ancestors to Toronto Below most will simply reply that they found it was a place that they thrive without any interference to their own autonomy or culture. Despite living hidden away from conventional society, they are happy and prosperous.
Loyalists - The second most powerful and influential human group of Toronto Below. Descendants of people loyal to the British Empire who fled America when it was formed. These are the ones whose fervour for the Empire made it difficult for them to adapt to ever evolving British North America for one reason or another. While some have had enough stories passed down them of Iroquois that bravely supported the British Empire to have admiration for them, most hold a seething resentment towards the Iroquois people as they feel that the Loyalists should rightfully rule Toronto Below. They are generally hostile and territorial, yet put a high value etiquette and their own form of civility. They typically assert their superiority by frequently warring with the Fenians.
Fenians - Descendants of Irish nationalists that were pushed underground for the perception that they were associated with the radical group of American Fenians that desired to occupy Upper Canada by force so that they could ransom it to the British Empire. Despite frequent harassment from Loyalists they have managed to stake out their own territory in Toronto Below and remain proudly Irish. They have at times turned to the Iroquois to intervene on their behalf when aggressions have become particularly bad and some, considering safety more valuable than independence, have even joined the Iroquois.
Mohawk - Descendants of a group that decided to neither join Iroquois Nation nor assimilate to British rule. They lived on the margins of society for some time and eventually found their way into Toronto Below. Easily the earliest group of people to find the underworld, they remain a small band of wanderers. Mostly peaceful, yet wary of contact with outside peoples and willing to use force to protect themselves. Due to their lifestyle they likely know the layout of Toronto Below better than almost anyone else there.
Animal talkers - Easily the largest in number of humans in Toronto Below, yet the most insignificant in terms of power and influence. They are frequently ignored by most others, yet when the situation calls for it friendly relations between the Animal talkers and other factions are not unheard of. They survive largely in the margins between the overworld and the underworld. Animal talkers are among those that are most likely to venture into the overworld but they are underworld enough that they are rarely noticed by overworlders and when they are noticed they are quickly forgotten. While learning the language of the animals isn't uncommon in the underworld, few go to the effort of being fluent in the language of every wild animal of the city. They exist as humble servants to these animals, showing them great reverence. Animal talkers largely live in destitution any education, training or weaponry available to them is crude and improvised.
Vampires - Standard vampires, drink blood, hate the sunlight. They can go for weeks without feeding but are generally happier when they have fed recently. Civilized in their own manner, they are generally reviled and considered violent and untrustworthy by others of the underworld. Possibly the main reason they haven't been actively hunted down and exterminated is because they have had the wisdom not to anger the Iroquois and have ingratiated themselves to the Loyalists and Fenians by hiring themselves out to settle the occasional feud in particularly messy ways. They get by mostly by feeding on Animal talkers.
Leanan sidhe - Vicious rivals of the vampires as they both sustain themselves on the living. While they are feared, they are less hated than vampires as they are considered less violent, more benevolent and quite simply better company. Less physically imposing than vampires, they are still quite dangerous and an experienced Leanan sidhe can drain an average human of their life quite rapidly if they are inclined to. Wikipedia suggests they are strictly female but I'm fine with the idea of male Leanan sidhe if anyone is interested.
Fairy Collective - A collective of various kinds of generally benevolent fairy folk. While generally not malignant, members of the Fairy Collective are considered fickle and spiteful when offended. Not much is known of them and they tend to avoid the human politics of Toronto Below, however, they are rumoured to have an affection for the Fenians who are quite reverent to the Collective.
Wulver - Mysterious wolfmen of the underworld. Usually peaceful but isolationist. They rarely leave their small patch of territory, which most people don't even know how to locate. While not liking outsiders the Wulvers have taken a strong affinity for the Mohawk people and look forward to their visits when they occur.
I'm also currently in the process of working out how the magic system will work. What I have is mind is that magic for humans will have extremely specialized users. Think seers and healers, not catch all mages. Most magics will be hereditary but there are some types that can be learned by anyone willing to put the effort to it. Regardless, mastery of magic takes extreme commitment and time. Even a gifted 30 year old is often considered a novice.
Broken-Angel
~Your favorite Badass Tsundere Boom Queen~
Ooh I'm all excited now 
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Project Brazen II
Qi Collector
Yay 
Also a couple afterthoughts to my last post.
First, looking over the article on the Iroquois I'm happy that some of my limited knowledge on First Nations seems to be accurate. Specifically, they were a matrilineal matriarchy. While wisewomen took a prominent role in society, men were charged with foreign relations, trade, hunting and warfare allowing for the appearance of a patriarchal society to outsiders unfamiliar with the social structure. All this to say, I would be perfectly happy to see someone play a female hunter or warrior in the Iroquois or Mohawk tribes. However, my expectation that such a character's mother might be disappointed that her daughter has opted to do lowly men's work as opposed to taking a more appropriate leadership role in the community.
Also for the purposes of immortal races allowable to players I think a roughly 500 year age limit would be reasonable as I don't want such a character to be overly powerful. It should be noted that Toronto is only 280 years old as a city and Toronto Below would be less old. That being said if you do want to submit such a character you may want to put some thought as to where your character was before they joined this specific underworld and what brought them to the region.
Also a couple afterthoughts to my last post.
First, looking over the article on the Iroquois I'm happy that some of my limited knowledge on First Nations seems to be accurate. Specifically, they were a matrilineal matriarchy. While wisewomen took a prominent role in society, men were charged with foreign relations, trade, hunting and warfare allowing for the appearance of a patriarchal society to outsiders unfamiliar with the social structure. All this to say, I would be perfectly happy to see someone play a female hunter or warrior in the Iroquois or Mohawk tribes. However, my expectation that such a character's mother might be disappointed that her daughter has opted to do lowly men's work as opposed to taking a more appropriate leadership role in the community.
Also for the purposes of immortal races allowable to players I think a roughly 500 year age limit would be reasonable as I don't want such a character to be overly powerful. It should be noted that Toronto is only 280 years old as a city and Toronto Below would be less old. That being said if you do want to submit such a character you may want to put some thought as to where your character was before they joined this specific underworld and what brought them to the region.
The Pooka
Resident Hobgoblin
This is great. This is really really good. I love the categories you've made.
Although, some things. Leanan Sidhe and Wulvers are both faery beings anywise, so you ought to fold them into the Faery Collective. Leanan Sidhe are most definitely all female. The closest masculine equivalent would be a kind of Leprechaun called a Gean Canach (Ganconer). You might also want to mention a connection between the Fenians and the Fae, since they're both Irish immigrants just as the Iroquois and Mohawks are both indigenous tribes.
Although, some things. Leanan Sidhe and Wulvers are both faery beings anywise, so you ought to fold them into the Faery Collective. Leanan Sidhe are most definitely all female. The closest masculine equivalent would be a kind of Leprechaun called a Gean Canach (Ganconer). You might also want to mention a connection between the Fenians and the Fae, since they're both Irish immigrants just as the Iroquois and Mohawks are both indigenous tribes.
Project Brazen II
Qi Collector
Thanks, Pooka. If I can offer a bit of clarification to my intentions. The separation of the Collective from the Leanan sidhe and Wulvers was intentional. Just as the humans have splintered over various differences, in my mind so have the fairies. As I see it the Leanan consort with humans the most openly, which most of the other fairies consider distasteful and likewise the Wulvers represent the other extreme of the spectrum, being so isolationist that they even limit themselves from unlike fairies. It was supposed to be hinted at that there is an underlying connection between the Fenians and the Collective but perhaps I should have elaborated on that more.
On a final note, I generally prefer sticking to traditional interpretations of folklore but I am prepared to defy tradition when it seems reasonable to do so. In my mind there doesn't seem to be any reason why there can't be a male fairy that gets by on seducing women and offers them inspiration in exchange for their life energy. I hope it doesn't offend you if I decide to portray male Leanan sidhe.
On a final note, I generally prefer sticking to traditional interpretations of folklore but I am prepared to defy tradition when it seems reasonable to do so. In my mind there doesn't seem to be any reason why there can't be a male fairy that gets by on seducing women and offers them inspiration in exchange for their life energy. I hope it doesn't offend you if I decide to portray male Leanan sidhe.
The Pooka
Resident Hobgoblin
Faeries are already divided like that. Solitary Fae (of which the Wulver - there aren't many, possibly only one - is one example) and Trooping Fae.
I just think it would be funny, since Leanan is the Irish word for female lover.
Faeries don't really have 'breeds' per se. You won't see a female leprechaun and you won't see a male banshee (or a female Pooka, heehee), simply because that's how they are, they're almost like gender roles unto themselves.
I just think it would be funny, since Leanan is the Irish word for female lover.
Faeries don't really have 'breeds' per se. You won't see a female leprechaun and you won't see a male banshee (or a female Pooka, heehee), simply because that's how they are, they're almost like gender roles unto themselves.
Project Brazen II
Qi Collector
Can't say I'm surprised by the malapropism that I've created but I have to admit that I can be a bit clavier in my application of English. I suppose it was only a matter time before that same rigour was brought to another language.
And there are also incubi and succubi, which fill out the same role but for opposing genders. I suppose the spirit I am coming from is that I don't see why this specific role can't be filled out by a male even if I am ill equipped to name such a thing.
And there are also incubi and succubi, which fill out the same role but for opposing genders. I suppose the spirit I am coming from is that I don't see why this specific role can't be filled out by a male even if I am ill equipped to name such a thing.
The Pooka
Resident Hobgoblin
Mainly because Faeries are all the same species, whether dwarf or troll, and the vast and variegated variety of shapes and forms and occupations they take are inclement upon their personalities. Male commoner Fae become various kinds of goblins or even smaller sprites, whereas female Fae are of a more aery and ethereal nature, not to mention more closely connected to prophetic abilities; Sylphs, Banshees, Hags Tree Maidens and suchlike.
Then you've got your noble tribes of tall or giant Fae; the Wights, the Trolls and Elves and Merfolk and such. They are more like families or clans and have males and females, which also often differ in appearance (female trolls are quite pretty, for instance, but still have the ox tails).
I'll link ya to the stuff I wrote about the different faery races. It's not finished, but it's mostly comprehensive.
https://sites.google.com/site/thefaeryfolk/races
Then you've got your noble tribes of tall or giant Fae; the Wights, the Trolls and Elves and Merfolk and such. They are more like families or clans and have males and females, which also often differ in appearance (female trolls are quite pretty, for instance, but still have the ox tails).
I'll link ya to the stuff I wrote about the different faery races. It's not finished, but it's mostly comprehensive.
https://sites.google.com/site/thefaeryfolk/races
Project Brazen II
Qi Collector
Wow, I have to admit that I never expected the list of faery folk to be that extensive. Thanks for the link though, Pooka. I will add this to the research I need to do, though I am still aiming to have the roleplay posted within the week hopefully.
Killigrew
Magnificent Humanicorn
Leanin Sidhe..... there's a thought
Broken-Angel
~Your favorite Badass Tsundere Boom Queen~
No you can't steal my idea xD
Project Brazen II
Qi Collector
Just a heads up because I was saying that I would be moving this forward within the week. I think I have all details more or less sorted but life has been poopy the past couple days so it's been hard to find the motivation to write anything out properly. So I should be posting the roleplay some time in the near future but it's just a matter of pulling together the motivation at the moment.