Viewpoint Unpopular roleplay opinions?

[rae2nerdy]

"Make your world more diverse"? Look, you do you, but don't force other people to do what they're not comfortable with. I don't insist that every role play has a nationalist just so I feel included, I don't insist that each one has an age gap just because my partner is older than me. If it's included, fine, if it's not, oh well.

With your example with the book, it reminds me of the whole "Hermione Granger could be black". She's a character. Even if in canon she's white, you can imagine her as a black character if you want. In fact, I'd support your right to do so. Imagine her as an aro latino girl if you want, but don't force other people to accept your vision of her. If your boss wants to imagine the character as white, so what? I could imagine the character is asian, black, white or gay because I'm the one experiencing the story. But that doesn't mean that I can force that to be the new canon.

My point is. Why are you so defensive about this? Why does it matter so much to you as a person? Most likely it is because of some kind of implicit bias. So rather than someone like the OP saying "Oh this is happening for no reason. It's just people shoving diversity down my throat." Stop and ask yourself... why do I feel that way? Why does having someone be a different color or sexuality or identity make me so uncomfortable? Why does it make me so defensive?

And explain that to your partner. I can promise you I am not forcing you to view the world in any particular way. I am telling you that I view it as diverse because that is a choice I made. I am aware of the reasoning behind it and I will happily share that with you. I am merely asking for the same courtesy in return.

Don't just shut me down by dismissing my reasoning as just "oh well Rae wants to shove her agenda down my throat." Because that is not what I said. I said that a lot of people have thoughts they don't realize that lead them to making assumptions about their world. And it's better for them to express those thoughts than just assume that everyone else is attacking them when they ask for a little change.

 

[SP3CT3R]

"All witches are women" is bad worldbuilding, it's 2020 and we support male witches.

 

[BackSet]

"It's not Witch, it's Warlock!" -Doofenshmirtz, 2010

 

[defenderofberk]

My point is. Why are you so defensive about this? Why does it matter so much to you as a person? Most likely it is because of some kind of implicit bias. So rather than someone like the OP saying "Oh this is happening for no reason. It's just people shoving diversity down my throat." Stop and ask yourself... why do I feel that way? Why does having someone be a different color or sexuality or identity make me so uncomfortable? Why does it make me so defensive?

And explain that to your partner. I can promise you I am not forcing you to view the world in any particular way. I am telling you that I view it as diverse because that is a choice I made. I am aware of the reasoning behind it and I will happily share that with you. I am merely asking for the same courtesy in return.

Don't just shut me down by dismissing my reasoning as just "oh well Rae wants to shove her agenda down my throat." Because that is not what I said. I said that a lot of people have thoughts they don't realize that lead them to making assumptions about their world. And it's better for them to express those thoughts than just assume that everyone else is attacking them when they ask for a little change.

Well actually, it's you that's got the problem and who's asking people to change. People get defensive because it feels forced, like "oh, we have to have a bunch of diverse people in this story". By making race and sexuality matter like this you're making people less likely to want to get involved with those characters because it feels like they have been created just for the sake of being diverse, rather than because they'll be an interesting addition to the story.

So you ask why does having someone of a different colour or sexuality make me uncomfortable? Because you've made it that they're not just another character, they're a "gay black man" for example.

You said that it's easy to contain diversity because you just need to think of them as another character. But by pointing out how these characteristics make them different, you're already drawing up lines between these characters. It's not "a group of people", it's a group of people but four of them are of colour and one of them is transgender. You are the one defining "diversity" as skin colour and sexuality, when it should just be about personality and backstory.

Take if you had a story of all black characters, and for argument's sake just say they're all straight. They're not all the same person. They have their own dreams, experiences, goals and skills. But they're all straight black people. Which by your logic, really isn't very diverse at all. But the truth is, no one really has a problem with that. Hell, if I joined that story, I would play a black character. Why? Because not every story needs to contain a person from all over the globe. Every story would then just become "gay people and people of colour deal with x problem" rather than a true sense of diversity. Let's have stories with mostly gay, black or disabled characters. But there's nothing wrong with having stories with mostly white straight characters too because not everything needs to contain everyone.

 

[Crenando]

This feels on-topic, given the 'race' thing, and the 'politics' thing and the 'agenda' thing. I'd say this little tale is closer to pushing an agenda than what's been said so far.

I've had an awkward experience on the site where someone tried to argue that the Filipino character in my friend's comic should face more discrimination based on the fact that she's part-Filipino and a Lesbian.
For reference, my friend is also Filipino, and this person was trying to argue what the life experiences of a Filipino character should be to him based on the fact that they aren't white or straight.
They also wanted to cut the one character that does face (fantastical) racism based on the character's (fantasy) race because they personally associated it with bad RPs and not the culture and mythology that birthed it.

 

[defenderofberk]

This feels on-topic, given the 'race' thing, and the 'politics' thing and the 'agenda' thing. I'd say this little tale is closer to pushing an agenda than what's been said so far.

I've had an awkward experience on the site where someone tried to argue that the Filipino character in my friend's comic should face more discrimination based on the fact that she's part-Filipino and a Lesbian.
For reference, my friend is also Filipino, and this person was trying to argue what the life experiences of a Filipino character should be to him based on the fact that they aren't white or straight.
They also wanted to cut the one character that does face (fantastical) racism based on the character's (fantasy) race because they personally associated it with bad RPs and not the culture and mythology that birthed it.

I think it honestly depends on the story, because what's believable to one person is ludicrous to another. In one of my role plays we basically had telepathic British white supremacists and I was arguing with a person whether a member would be allowed to be an open lesbian. I found it completely implausible given they often put their own kids up for selected breeding programs but she insisted, so the story died off.

I do find it annoying when you read something you've experienced and it's not remotely close to being accurate (the way age gap relationships are portrayed honestly makes me cringe sometimes) but I remember that it's meant to be fun. If I really can't buy into it, I stop reading and do something else.

Oppression and racism can be a double edged sword in stories. If it's a bit dark and gritter you often don't want to just ignore it, but you also don't want their character running around crying and making it out like they can't walk down the street without twenty people trying to kill them. Then again, this is true for all forms of bullying in role plays. So some people just avoid it all together.

 

[rae2nerdy]

This feels on-topic, given the 'race' thing, and the 'politics' thing and the 'agenda' thing. I'd say this little tale is closer to pushing an agenda than what's been said so far.

I've had an awkward experience on the site where someone tried to argue that the Filipino character in my friend's comic should face more discrimination based on the fact that she's part-Filipino and a Lesbian.
For reference, my friend is also Filipino, and this person was trying to argue what the life experiences of a Filipino character should be to him based on the fact that they aren't white or straight.
They also wanted to cut the one character that does face (fantastical) racism based on the character's (fantasy) race because they personally associated it with bad RPs and not the culture and mythology that birthed it.

Yeah. I think we can all get stuck in that kind of thinking. Like oh this group must all act in a way that fits my narrative cuz that’s all I know. It helps to have push back and people be like “This is my life so don’t tell me I’m writing my characters wrong.”

Also big fan of racism metaphors in fantasy. But I’m a nerd.

 

[rae2nerdy]

"All witches are women" is bad worldbuilding, it's 2020 and we support male witches.

I never got that thought. Is it like a genetic thing? Or do these twits think it’s like rooster/hen. Witch is lady and Wizard is dude. I mean HP sets up that dichotomy but in most other fantasy works they are both distinct magical races.

 

[defenderofberk]

Yeah. I think we can all get stuck in that kind of thinking. Like oh this group must all act in a way that fits my narrative cuz that’s all I know. It helps to have push back and people be like “This is my life so don’t tell me I’m writing my characters wrong.”

Also big fan of racism metaphors in fantasy. But I’m a nerd.

Yeah, but personal experiences don't always translate into the story. I can't really take my experiences being at an affluent British school and put those on a character that's grown up in the Bronx or in China.

I never got that thought. Is it like a genetic thing? Or do these twits think it’s like rooster/hen. Witch is lady and Wizard is dude. I mean HP sets up that dichotomy but in most other fantasy works they are both distinct magical races.

I always got the impression that a male witch was generally either a wizard, sorcerer or warlock.

 

[SP3CT3R]

I never got that thought. Is it like a genetic thing? Or do these twits think it’s like rooster/hen. Witch is lady and Wizard is dude. I mean HP sets up that dichotomy but in most other fantasy works they are both distinct magical races.

I meant in the terms of "witchcraft is a thing only women can do" but having gendered words for magic users is dumb too.

 

[rae2nerdy]

I meant in the terms of "witchcraft is a thing only women can do" but having gendered words for magic users is dumb too.

I mean I’m all for crushing the gendered norms via magic. I can at least sort of see if it’s just a genetic thing. I have some magical talents that show up only in women but it’s usually cuz the talent was given by a virgin goddess figure. Like granny saved the sacred deer of Artemis and got magical powers. It is passed down through the female line cuz fuck dudes.

But that’s more of a specific family thing. Your right it’s silly that men can’t do witchcraft as a magical craft.

Or for that matter women can’t be wizards or mages or whatever.

 

[defenderofberk]

I mean I’m all for crushing the gendered norms via magic. I can at least sort of see if it’s just a genetic thing. I have some magical talents that show up only in women but it’s usually cuz the talent was given by a virgin goddess figure. Like granny saved the sacred deer of Artemis and got magical powers. It is passed down through the female line cuz fuck dudes.

But that’s more of a specific family thing. Your right it’s silly that men can’t do witchcraft as a magical craft.

Or for that matter women can’t be wizards or mages or whatever.

Personally I quite like the distinction as why shouldn't there be differences between the sexes? Most (nearly all) of people burned in my country for witchcraft were women, so to suddenly let men hop on the bandwagon seems a bit... odd? Not exactly disrespectful as you get stories with medieval female soldiers, but just a bit strange when they can already be wizards, druids, sorcerers, necromancers... I guess it just feels unnecessary. That's not to say you can't have female wizards, but things like sorcerers and necromancers are nearly always male. But by having the distinction there in the first place, it makes those female necromancers and male witches more interesting.

Also isn't a lot of witchcraft to do with fertility and the circle of life?

 

[rae2nerdy]

Personally I quite like the distinction as why shouldn't there be differences between the sexes? Most (nearly all) of people burned in my country for witchcraft were women, so to suddenly let men hop on the bandwagon seems a bit... odd? Not exactly disrespectful as you get stories with medieval female soldiers, but just a bit strange when they can already be wizards, druids, sorcerers, necromancers... I guess it just feels unnecessary. That's not to say you can't have female wizards, but things like sorcerers and necromancers are nearly always male. But by having the distinction there in the first place, it makes those female necromancers and male witches more interesting.

Also isn't a lot of witchcraft to do with fertility and the circle of life?

So I think you and I are not going to reach any kind of civil agreement on this.

1. Because that was a joke
2. Because you seem very firm on your interpretation of the world and I don’t have the time or inclination to argue.

So to that end believe whatever you want about fantasy systems.

 

[defenderofberk]

So I think you and I are not going to reach any kind of civil agreement on this.

1. Because that was a joke
2. Because you seem very firm on your interpretation of the world and I don’t have the time or inclination to argue.

So to that end believe whatever you want about fantasy systems.

Eh, fine. You never did respond to my point on diversity though, so I guess you didn't like having your world interpretation challenged too much.

 

[rae2nerdy]

Eh, fine. You never did respond to my point on diversity though, so I guess you didn't like having your world interpretation challenged too much.

No I’m just not going to educate someone who doesn’t want to learn. You have clearly shown you are not ready to do any kind of soul searching about the bias in your world views.

It is not my job to hand hold you through that process.

 

[defenderofberk]

No I’m just not going to educate someone who doesn’t want to learn. You have clearly shown you are not ready to do any kind of soul searching about the bias in your world views.

It is not my job to hand hold you through that process.

I don't want every story to be the exact same so I'm biased. Ok-ay, I think you might be the one who needs to learn that there's more to life than constantly noticing sexuality and race and worrying about inherent prejudice.

 

[PanOtterPus]

I believe it's time to drop this guys. You've said your piece, different opinions are valid and noone needs to explain themselves.
Please move on.

 

[rae2nerdy]

To get back on topic, I never got the idea of magic just being this narrow thing? Like don't get me wrong I will throw my keyboard through the computer screen if you give me that "It's fantasy so whatever goes." B.S. Um no. There have to be rules. But those rules don't have to be exactly the same every single time you tell a magical story.

Like again realistically why can't men be witches? Why do witches always have to mean the exact same thing in every story? I mean maybe if your doing fandom stuff than sure, you gotta stick to whatever rules the canon came up with.

But if your just making up a world why not get creative? I have witches whose power come from puns. I have witches whose power comes from nature. Or witches whose power come from magical animals (sort of like pokemon trainers).

It doesn't always have to be the same old same old. It's the beauty of fantasy. It can be whatever you want as long as it follows consistent rules within the universe.

Also side tangent - what even is medieval times? Seriously. I rebuke it. My witches are chilling out in modern times or in a world that has no concept of real world time periods.

 

[BackSet]

what even is medieval times?

476 CE – 1453 CE, according to the internet.

 

[Crenando]

It doesn't always have to be the same old same old. It's the beauty of fantasy. It can be whatever you want as long as it follows consistent rules within the universe.

I don't think people look far enough outside their comfort zone in the genre. People would rather read the Harry Potter books over again than go out of their way to get something from the SF new wave, or the age of the pulps, or really any fantasy book from before the 80's that doesn't have the cultural relevance of the works of Tolkien or CS Lewis.

I'm not even sure what crazy new fantasy literature is coming because I don't really hear anyone talk about it.

 

[Grey]

I'm not even sure what crazy new fantasy literature is coming because I don't really hear anyone talk about it.

If you ever want a list, I keep my finger firmly on that particular pulse.

 

[The One Eyed Bandit]

generally speaking long posts are dumb

if your word count is at four digits im raising eyebrows

 

[BackSet]

If your word count is at four digits I am not reading your post. Call me lazy but I have the attention span of a hamster.

Actually, that's an insult to hamsters.

 

[rae2nerdy]

I don't think people look far enough outside their comfort zone in the genre. People would rather read the Harry Potter books over again than go out of their way to get something from the SF new wave, or the age of the pulps, or really any fantasy book from before the 80's that doesn't have the cultural relevance of the works of Tolkien or CS Lewis.

I'm not even sure what crazy new fantasy literature is coming because I don't really hear anyone talk about it.

I mean I am a huge potter head and I listen to all kinds of podcasts that go through the books. But it's usually from a nerdy perspective. i.e. a queer perspective, a black perspective, a married couple perspective, a new fans perspective. so even if you are going over the same material your getting a different read out of it each time. I don't have enough time to read a lot of fantasy books now but I will always try to snag an interesting book if it crosses my desk at the library.

 

[BackSet]

I know a couple of pretty neat fantasy book series that aren't all that mainstream.