Tree-totem Lunar?

[Kyeudo]

One thing that recently occurred to me while reading the revised Char-Gen rules the Ink Monkeys put forth is that it is now possible (with a few dots of Flaws) to have a Lunar with Laurels-and-Ivy Technique at the start of the game. Since your spirit shape can be anything that qualifies for the sacred hunt at Character Creation, would this not mean that you can have a Lunar who's totem is an oak tree or a rose? Does such a Lunar violate some inherent assumption of the setting?

 

[magnificentmomo]

I say no because I have always wanted this. Too bad you have to dig so deep to get it.

 

[rattleingpython]

I see no reason why it wouldnt be possible. Granted if it is then at the same teir (Int requried instead of Per) You could have a demon as your spirit shape. So maybe there is a problem their.

 

[Brickwall]

Technicality: Only Knacks that explicitly say they grant you an additional selection of Spirit Shapes are able to do so. This is to prevent people from doing things like taking a person as a Spirit Shape, or using Emerald Grasshopper Form to take a fly spirit shape.


So, RAW, you can't.


But if you feel like changing the rules, go ahead.

 

[Moonstone Spider]

I can't see anything wrong with a deadly mushroom transformation going on, but on the other hand no image or illustration I'm aware of has a tree-totem so you could argue against it. I just don't see that it'd be problematic in any way.


I would be inclined to rule against any totem that would be a creature of darkness, such as fair folk or demons.

 

[rattleingpython]

Players may only choose creatures that are valid targets


for the sacred hunt as a character’s spirit shape. In order to


create a character with a mouse or yeddim totem, the character


must take the appropriate Knacks (see p. 131).

Actually the knack only has to make the charecter able to hunt the creature at charecter creation. In theory, the lunar could use a plant or demon. Granted i tend to agree that a demon doesnt make alot of sense. The plant one could be alot of fun though .

 

[Vikingnewt]

the evil sheriff returns to find the cell empty but for a great big massive oak tree that definately wasnt there before...

 

[Kyeudo]

One of the implications of a plant-totem Lunar is in Charms. Currently, all Lunar Charms draw from animal inspirations. Claws, predatory instincts, goat-like surefootedness, and so on are all currently things that Lunar Charms emulate. A plant totem Lunar might grow bark armor, be as immovable as a redwood, or subsist on sunlight and rain.

 

[Thanqol]

One of the implications of a plant-totem Lunar is in Charms. Currently, all Lunar Charms draw from animal inspirations. Claws, predatory instincts, goat-like surefootedness, and so on are all currently things that Lunar Charms emulate. A plant totem Lunar might grow bark armor, be as immovable as a redwood, or subsist on sunlight and rain.

Pshaw, just reflavor existing charms to be plant based. There are so many types of plants there's always something.


Cobra and Toad > Poison plants


Claws > Thorns


Territory marking > Wide spread roots


Add to some custom charms and really, you're fine. Dexterity ones might be harder, but I'm seeing a tree being No Moon favouring Stamina anyway.


EDIT: Also, turtle Lunars can take Unshakeable Bloodhound Pursuit so I don't see anything wrong with a tree doing a tightrope walk.

 

[Kyeudo]

I wasn't saying that a plant totem Lunar wouldn't be able to use normal Lunar Charms, but instead that a plant totem Lunar would aproach Charms from an unusual angle for a Lunar. Such Lunars, due to the Essence requirement, would be exceptionally rare amoung the Silver Pact.

 

[Captain Hesperus]

Ents......


Captain Hesperus

 

[Virjigorm]

Lunar-Akuma with demon spirit shape? uh oh...

 

[rattleingpython]

Demon totem form being the the TOMESCU the demon with dozens of clawed and weapon arms + Malfeases mutation mob of tenetacals and extra arms and legs. + Octopus and spider barrage= Dead exalts in one action.


In other news I want to make an Ent lunar now. I just wish someone was willing to run exalted in my area. So I could breed ent plantmen children and attack a wizard in a tower burning down my people...okay im done now.

 

[Captain Hesperus]

Demon totem form being the the TOMESCU the demon with dozens of clawed and weapon arms + Malfeases mutation mob of tenetacals and extra arms and legs. + Octopus and spider barrage= Dead exalts in one action.
In other news I want to make an Ent lunar now. I just wish someone was willing to run exalted in my area. So I could breed ent plantmen children and attack a wizard in a tower burning down my people...okay im done now.

Let's not forget that the Wizard is actually a Raksha who has brought a large force of Hobgoblins with him and he has also dammed a local river to use for power....


Damn, I want to do Tree-totem Lunar now.


Captain Hesperus

 

[Dracogryff]

Players may only choose creatures that are valid targets


for the sacred hunt as a character’s spirit shape. In order to


create a character with a mouse or yeddim totem, the character


must take the appropriate Knacks (see p. 131).

Actually the knack only has to make the charecter able to hunt the creature at charecter creation. In theory, the lunar could use a plant or demon. Granted i tend to agree that a demon doesnt make alot of sense. The plant one could be alot of fun though .

And if you look in the Knacks, two Knacks (Humble Mouse and Towering Beast) explicitly state: "This Knack expands the range of possible spirit shapes for a starting character." Not a single other knack has this text. So, either they're the only ones that do, because they're the ones that state that they do, or redundant text was placed in the Knacks themselves.


It's all in how you want to interpret it in the end. *shrug* Personally, don't have a problem with plant totems, but I don't approve of people getting demons or something as their totem.

 

[Gamage]

"Players may only choose creatures that are valid targets


for the sacred hunt as a character’s spirit shape"


This only applies to a lunar with no knacks, with only two knacks being able to expand this list. As it's been said, that the rules are open to be changed as much as you want. but as far as the rules go you can't have a plant for a spirit animals. Also note that it says "players may only choose creatures that are valid targets for the sacred hunt".

 

[rattleingpython]

"Players may only choose creatures that are valid targets
for the sacred hunt as a character’s spirit shape"


This only applies to a lunar with no knacks, with only two knacks being able to expand this list. As it's been said, that the rules are open to be changed as much as you want. but as far as the rules go you can't have a plant for a spirit animals. Also note that it says "players may only choose creatures that are valid targets for the sacred hunt".

Why does the statement only apply to people who have no knacks? Is there any non-circumstantial proof for the statement. The fact that two knacks have possibly redundant text in it is not necessarily proof that one reading is wrong.


The statement on choosing spirit shape states that one may chose any creature that is a valid target for the sacred hunt. The simplest reading of it is any creature that qualifies for the sacred hunt is eligible.


Your reading requires an assumption that that this only applies to characters with no knacks. Which is not stated anywhere and if we assume that is the case then the text must also be totaly overwritten or it still allows any spirit shape you could hunt. This means you can only have a spirit shape your knacks claim you can hunt can be your spirit shape. This means someone who want to be able to hunt mice but wants a panther spirit shape is out of luck because they picked up a knack that opens up new option for there spirit shape. Otherwise the orginal statement is still in effect so the text is redundant anyway and any spirit shape viable for the sacred hunt is legal.


On the point of creature there are several definitions, one is anything that is created. So plants demons and elementals all fit that definition.


The simplist reading supports not only the tree totem lunar, but also the demon totem lunar, and the elemental totem lunar. Truthfully I think essence should be limited to 2 for choosing a spirit shape with lunar character creation after all thats what you are when you exalt.

 

[Ledaal Kajiri]

The simplist reading supports not only the tree totem lunar, but also the demon totem lunar, and the elemental totem lunar. Truthfully I think essence should be limited to 2 for choosing a spirit shape with lunar character creation after all thats what you are when you exalt.

Actually, it's possible for an Enlightened Mortal to already have an Essence 3 before they Exalt, if they do so. So the 'Essence 2 at Exaltation' is not guaranteed. Any Exalt who was formerly an Enlightened Mortal Terrestrial Martial Artist, Sorceror or Necromancer is guaranteed to have an Essence 3 before gaining Exaltation, actually.

 

[Gamage]

This means you can only have a spirit shape your knacks claim you can hunt can be your spirit shape. This means someone who want to be able to hunt mice but wants a panther spirit shape is out of luck because they picked up a knack that opens up new option for there spirit shape.

"This Knack expands the range of possible spirit


shapes for a starting character."


Expand: "To increase the extent, number, volume or scope of (something)"

On the point of creature there are several definitions, one is anything that is created. So plants demons and elementals all fit that definition.

Creature: "A living organism characterized by voluntary movement"


Plant: "A living organism lacking the power of locomotion"


Or if that isn't good enough for you...


"At the moment of Exaltation, a Lunar gains her first animal shape"


Animal: "A living organism characterized by voluntary movement"


Animal2: "In everyday colloquial usage, the word usually refers to non-human animals."


(You should also know that Aristotle divided the living world between animals and plants.)


Additionally, although it shouldn't have to be said, animals are REAL. (That is redundant.)

 

[rattleingpython]

"This Knack expands the range of possible spirit


shapes for a starting character."


Expand: "To increase the extent, number, volume or scope of (something)"

My point is the text is unnecessary without it the knack works fine. With it the other knacks still work. Your reading has to assume the text means that only knacks that say they expand the option expand options. The Text Says, "Players may only choose creatures that are valid targets for the sacred hunt as a character’s spirit shape." Any knack that expands options for the sacred hunt works. Im saying the text in the knacks is redunant and holds no baring on the conversation. If it had a point that would have been spelled out in the section explaining how to chose a spirit shape not in the knacks themselves.

Creature: "A living organism characterized by voluntary movement"


Plant: "A living organism lacking the power of locomotion"


Or if that isn't good enough for you...


"At the moment of Exaltation, a Lunar gains her first animal shape"


Animal: "A living organism characterized by voluntary movement"


Animal2: "In everyday colloquial usage, the word usually refers to non-human animals."


(You should also know that Aristotle divided the living world between animals and plants.)


Additionally, although it shouldn't have to be said, animals are REAL. (That is redundant.)

And there is a defintion of creature that is a 'something created':


http://www.thefreedictionary.com/creature


crea·ture (krchr)


n.


1. Something created.


2.


a. A living being, especially an animal: land creatures; microscopic creatures in a drop of water.


b. A human.


The part referencing the fact that a lunar gets their first animal shape is flavor text. The mechincs in the next two paragraph are the important part. Flavor text is cool and all but just because a charm says the blows are lighting fast and no one can possibly block them. Doesnt mean the attack is unblockable by anything unless the mechincs portion says the attack is unblockable. Even if the charms flavor text says something like it blocks the attack but its mechincs say it cant block unblockable attacks then the unblockable attack still cant be blocked.

 

[Caelun_Niveus]

And there is a defintion of creature that is a 'something created':
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/creature


crea·ture (krchr)


n.


1. Something created.


2.


a. A living being, especially an animal: land creatures; microscopic creatures in a drop of water.


b. A human.

So you could have a person as your totem animal?

 

[Moonstone Spider]

As mentioned in another thread, should mankind be wiped out, the Lunar Exaltations will go exalt animals and give them all human totems so they can rebuild the species.


But I'd give a funny look to any player who wanted a human totem on his human Lunar. It reminds me of the old DnD hack somebody made of a were-bear bear. He's a bear, and by the light of the full moon, he turns into a different bear.


I mean, what would your deadly beastman transformation look like?

 

[Kyeudo]

As mentioned in another thread, should mankind be wiped out, the Lunar Exaltations will go exalt animals and give them all human totems so they can rebuild the species.

Errata specifically says no to that.

 

[Dracogryff]

As mentioned in another thread, should mankind be wiped out, the Lunar Exaltations will go exalt animals and give them all human totems so they can rebuild the species.

Errata specifically says no to that.

Shame that, after putting a whole section in the Storyteller section of the Lunar's book that suggests exactly that as the basis for a story. Of course, that section never says that this is canonically the case, just suggests that it is possible, if a ST wants to do a different sort of story, to have Luna have been smart enough to put a failsafe into her exaltations that allows them to exalt animals and give them a human alternate shape.


I thought it looked like a lot of fun, actually. And who doesn't like a section titled 'Humanity Dies?'


Edit: And I also admit to curiosity as to where the errata says this, since I've never been able to find any passage referencing that sort of thing anywhere. O.o

 

[Teln]

It's a tiny little sidebar in the most recent version of the Scroll. A sidebar which I am placing in the same trash can as the Half-Caste Exaltation rules.