Mesenterium
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Opinion thread no longer active
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Melpomene
Writer of Tragedy|Art by ROYTHEART|
By this years Oscars: Uncut Gems. It was a masterfully directed and acted movie, one which I felt so immersed in that I legitimately felt anxiety while watching it. Seriously, that movie is like eating anxiety for breakfast. I don't see it talked about that much, and I think like Lighthouse it was one of the greats from this year that went unrecognized. They both were wonderfully acted, immersive, and had you at the edge of the seat as you watched them. Unfortunately, they seem to have gotten lost in the shadows of the likes of Joker and 1924.
Treasure Planet and Atlantis are definitely some of the most underrated Disney films. Both of them were incredibly fun and atmospheric. Atlantis had absolutely stunning animation and has such a lovable cast. Same can be said for Treasure Planet.
Hercules is an often forgotten gem in Disney, I find, and I think it is just a lovable hot mess that I cannot stop watching.
Treasure Planet and Atlantis are definitely some of the most underrated Disney films. Both of them were incredibly fun and atmospheric. Atlantis had absolutely stunning animation and has such a lovable cast. Same can be said for Treasure Planet.
Hercules is an often forgotten gem in Disney, I find, and I think it is just a lovable hot mess that I cannot stop watching.
M.J. Saulnier
Semi-Retired User
Batman vs Superman.
"While I was eating my hero cake, their horses were drowning."
-Johnathan Kent
"It has to be me."
-Clark Kent
SPOILERS AHEAD
Basically every DC movie is ruthlessly destroyed with the exception of Wonder Woman and Aquaman. Personally, I enjoyed the DCEU when it began. Man of Steel set the bar for what a super hero adaptation should look like. Depth, substance, accuracy and break neck action. BvS provided a superb follow-up that not only picked up where MoS left off, but it set up Wonder Woman and Justice League.
For this first time since they began adapting comic characters to the screen, we got a genuine, objectively solid and accurate Bruce Wayne. He was decidedly dark, but it wasn't at random. The story is there in plain sight. Batman stories have never consisted of sunshine and rainbows. He is a man burdened at his very core by darkness and mental complexes. This is made very clear within the first twenty minutes of the film for those who don't know how messed up Bruce really is. It's strongly insinuated that Joker has killed Robin. If you understand Batman at all, you'll know how big of a deal something like that would be to Bruce. It has the potential to destroy him. We find him in a very dark place in this film, going so far as to brand the criminals he's taken down. Beyond that, the destruction caused by the fight with Zod has perverted Bruce's image of Superman.
Enter Clark Kent. This isn't the 1940s. Superman isn't beloved by virtually everyone. There is a very stark, realistic portrayal of the world's reaction to a being like Superman. They are terrified. That scope of power being wielded by one alien is terrifying notion. These people have never been to the Kent farm. They don't know Clark. It's very easy to understand this type of reaction, because it's how we would react to a Kryptonian living among us.
The thing that destroyed this film was actually one of the best parts, and the culmination of every payoff that had been building since Man of Steel. The notorious Martha scene.
Why did Superman call his mother Martha?
Because at this point in the timeline, Kal knows his mother is Lara. Martha is the human mother who raised him. Now I'm not suggesting he doesn't think of Martha as his mother, that's not at all what's happening here. Consider for a moment that Batman's foot is on his neck. Is it easier to say "my mother" or "Martha" when your windpipe is being constricted? Would the man trying to kill you care if you said "my mother"? Probably not. But if you say "Martha" you might just buy yourself enough time to explain who Martha is.
Why did hearing his mother's name stop Batman from doing what he worked so hard to do when he was so close?
I'm not a psychologist, but if you know a bit about mental complexes, you know that major trauma can create legitimate triggers. Batman witnessed the brutal slaying of his parents at a rather tender age. The film establishes that his father's last word was "Martha" and even flashes back to it during the Martha scene. When Lois arrives and explains that it is his mother's name, it does two things. It humanizes Clark for that brief second, and reminds Bruce of why he became Batman. Hence his tossing of the Kryptonite spear. As a fan of Batman, this scene had me in tears.
Now I know Marvel has never made you think this much, but this is a good comic adaptation. You won't smile and laugh the entire time with a few "awwww" moments sprinkled about.
In summary: It was a smart, deep film that portrayed the characters phenomenally. Lex was questionable but he was based on classic Lex, not the 80s+ Lex you know and love. And it had consistency. Between coming out of Man of Steel, and going into Justice League, there were no sloppy gaps or awkward transitions.
"While I was eating my hero cake, their horses were drowning."
-Johnathan Kent
"It has to be me."
-Clark Kent
SPOILERS AHEAD
Basically every DC movie is ruthlessly destroyed with the exception of Wonder Woman and Aquaman. Personally, I enjoyed the DCEU when it began. Man of Steel set the bar for what a super hero adaptation should look like. Depth, substance, accuracy and break neck action. BvS provided a superb follow-up that not only picked up where MoS left off, but it set up Wonder Woman and Justice League.
For this first time since they began adapting comic characters to the screen, we got a genuine, objectively solid and accurate Bruce Wayne. He was decidedly dark, but it wasn't at random. The story is there in plain sight. Batman stories have never consisted of sunshine and rainbows. He is a man burdened at his very core by darkness and mental complexes. This is made very clear within the first twenty minutes of the film for those who don't know how messed up Bruce really is. It's strongly insinuated that Joker has killed Robin. If you understand Batman at all, you'll know how big of a deal something like that would be to Bruce. It has the potential to destroy him. We find him in a very dark place in this film, going so far as to brand the criminals he's taken down. Beyond that, the destruction caused by the fight with Zod has perverted Bruce's image of Superman.
Enter Clark Kent. This isn't the 1940s. Superman isn't beloved by virtually everyone. There is a very stark, realistic portrayal of the world's reaction to a being like Superman. They are terrified. That scope of power being wielded by one alien is terrifying notion. These people have never been to the Kent farm. They don't know Clark. It's very easy to understand this type of reaction, because it's how we would react to a Kryptonian living among us.
The thing that destroyed this film was actually one of the best parts, and the culmination of every payoff that had been building since Man of Steel. The notorious Martha scene.
Why did Superman call his mother Martha?
Because at this point in the timeline, Kal knows his mother is Lara. Martha is the human mother who raised him. Now I'm not suggesting he doesn't think of Martha as his mother, that's not at all what's happening here. Consider for a moment that Batman's foot is on his neck. Is it easier to say "my mother" or "Martha" when your windpipe is being constricted? Would the man trying to kill you care if you said "my mother"? Probably not. But if you say "Martha" you might just buy yourself enough time to explain who Martha is.
Why did hearing his mother's name stop Batman from doing what he worked so hard to do when he was so close?
I'm not a psychologist, but if you know a bit about mental complexes, you know that major trauma can create legitimate triggers. Batman witnessed the brutal slaying of his parents at a rather tender age. The film establishes that his father's last word was "Martha" and even flashes back to it during the Martha scene. When Lois arrives and explains that it is his mother's name, it does two things. It humanizes Clark for that brief second, and reminds Bruce of why he became Batman. Hence his tossing of the Kryptonite spear. As a fan of Batman, this scene had me in tears.
Now I know Marvel has never made you think this much, but this is a good comic adaptation. You won't smile and laugh the entire time with a few "awwww" moments sprinkled about.
In summary: It was a smart, deep film that portrayed the characters phenomenally. Lex was questionable but he was based on classic Lex, not the 80s+ Lex you know and love. And it had consistency. Between coming out of Man of Steel, and going into Justice League, there were no sloppy gaps or awkward transitions.
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olive
don't expect it to tango, it has a broken back
i totally agree about hercules, treasure planet, and atlantis: the lost empire. milo was the first disney character i was able to empathize with as a child; i never enjoyed the princess movies, and while i didn't understand why, then, i think now it's because the end goal is to meet prince charming (with the exceptions of some movies, like aladdin, pocahontas and mulan). i really wanted to be an archaeologist, even before i saw the movie, so i really loved him right off the bat, and he sort of became an idol for elementary school me. milo's just a good guy who's fascinated by the ancient world and wants to be taken seriously. i also had some very confusing feelings about why i wouldn't mind being in his place, romantic relationship with kida included. i didn't know i was gay, but i knew kida was hot. long story short, that movie was a big part of my childhood. if we're still talking disney, i find that the hunchback is severely underrated. now, onto newer movies! i found that knives out was pretty underrated, despite receiving nomination for an academy award i had absolutely no idea what it was or what it was about until i saw it up for rent on direct tv. i absolutely loved it. it's a beautiful satire on muder mystery tropes with a good message and a sweet revenge ending. it constantly keeps you engaged as the plot thickens, just like a non-satire murder mystery.
M.J. Saulnier
Semi-Retired User
No Disney movie has ever been underrated. You were probably just too young to recall exactly how popular it was, or you weren't born yet. All of the Atlantis movies were huge, they just came out in a time when people moved on quickly because good films were being released on a steady basis.
Hercules was insanely popular. MacDonald's ran that Happy Meal toy line for what seemed like 2 years. Disney's Hades is literally a pop culture icon.
Also, view your post via mobile and tell me that format isn't the worst thing since Season 5 of Community. The fact that you don't bother to capitalize has somehow amplified the illegibility.
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Emotional Enigma
Empathetic Empress
The Ginger Snaps franchise
SCSaya06
Observer
You say that but I don't recall BvS being underrated either. The marketing was massive. Trailers were playing all over convenience stores here. Giant banners and billboards on the highway. Every brand whether it's a Telcom company or a phone brand was releasing BvS themed merch. This continued long after the film was out of the theaters as well. Plus the film made bank despite the negative reviews. (As for what I thought of that movie...yeah. Super underwhelming movie.)
On my end...I think I'd throw in the 1979 Tourist Trap. Reviews were on the lukewarm side but I really found it to be a genuinely creepy and unnerving film. Likewise, the Salem's Lot series in 1979 also seems to be overlooked when discussing movies based on Stephen King's works. Everyone seems to be all about Carrie or IT but I'd personally place this miniseries as the best King adaptation to date.
M.J. Saulnier
Semi-Retired User
Marketing has nothing to do with the consensus formed by the viewer after the fact. The consensus on BvS, was that it was underwhelming, broken, disjointed, overtly depressing, the list goes on and on. It was called anything but a good DC movie because, you know, no one actually reads comics anymore.
Let me ask you this: What did you think of Captain America: Civil War?
SCSaya06
Observer
Alright. Fair point on marketing. I'm just saying that I don't think it's underrated since it earned a lot and people are still talking about it until today.
Lastly, I don't exactly see how my thoughts on Civil War would affect my thoughts on BvS?
Antlered
New Member
Polar. Honestly, I'm still surprised so many people haven't even heard of this movie when it's literally a Netflix original. John Wick-esque neo noir aesthetic & action sequences, awesome soundtrack, dumb humor intertwined with ungodly amount of violence, starring Vanessa Hudgens, Katheryn Winnick, and God himself Mads Mikkelsen – what else can you ask for?!
M.J. Saulnier
Semi-Retired User
Fair point. I suppose it has a certain innate advantage being a Batman, Superman, and even Wonder Woman film. It does have a very large DC Fan following, we're just far from that majority.
I was curious how you felt about a Disney/Marvel version of a similar film, similar premise, that actually had way more characters shoehorned in, and much less action. Furthermore I always like to know where people sit on the DCEU-MCU spectrum. There's this magic thing that happens when you go to see a Disney movie. I don't know if it's in the air vents, the sodas, popcorn or nanites in the chair fabric, but people just change. Intricate plot work is no longer needed. You can't actually feel anything but happiness for more than a few fleeting (forgettable) seconds. And even if you're overly emotional, some side character like Draxx is always there to shattered the tension with a good pun. It makes people love every last second of every last thing they see and hear, no matter what it is. No matter how underdeveloped, generic, and boring it is.
Maybe it's because I'm no stranger to psychoactive chemicals and have built up a superhuman level of tolerance, but Disney's crack has no affect on me. I was dragged to all three new Star Wars in theaters. Not because I wanted to. Not even because I had expressed interest in passing and was later held accountable in some sort of 'cool clique' bit. No. It was because in 1999, I made the fatal mistake of going to see The Phantom Menace with my friends in theaters. And when Attack of The Clones began releasing trailers, I made a decision that came back to haunt me. I knew Hayden Christensen would shit the bed...ruining Vader forever!
I tried to warm them, but they wouldn't listen. They didn't understand Hayden like I did. They didn't know he'd reduce Vader to a skulking whiny bitch. And so they went without me. Anyone else would have simply moved on, but not my boys. I was never permitted to live it down. Never able to outrun it. Until Force Awakens was announced.
I was forced to sit through every agonizing minute of all three Star Wars Junior movies.
tr;dr: This lock down is getting the best of me. I feel like a zoo animal must feel. Every. Single. Day.
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SCSaya06
Observer
I'd explain why I prefer Civil War but this is not the thread for it. Just know that I'm not a comic book reader and I'm not particularly loyal to either franchise so I just take their films on their own merits.
M.J. Saulnier
Semi-Retired User
I love Marvel comics and DC comics. I take both brands films for their merits. MCU has good production quality, bullet-proof marketing. But the script-work is sub-par, and the long-term organization was just amatuer. They brought in Panther just to die, and return for the last battle scene. They brought in Strange to hold up a finger, let's not even talk about whatever Captain Marvel was. Phase 4 was a mess that wasted every character they worked so hard to bring in during the 4th quarter. But glaring flaws and shortcomings like this aren't even recognized because it's Disney. Just Disney. Shhhhhh...Disney.
The merits are few and far between when it's basically an anthology by so many writers and directors over so many years, just under contract for Disney.
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Monumentalist
monumentally challenged
I came here to talk about Atlantis, but looks like you already did it for me
Sybela
Bear 🐻
The Black Cauldron; the movie that almost bankrupted Disney. It has acquired a cult following now but many people still are like “what’s that?” It’s such a good movie!
AnimeGenork
The Duck Overlord
Ever since I was a kid, I've loved Lion King 2. I know next to nothing about how it was received in comparison to the original, but sometimes people ask me, "There was a SEQUEL?" with those looks on their faces that you know must come from only watching what's considered popular at the time. YES, THERE WAS A SEQUEL TO LION KING. TWO IN FACT.
I've never been able to trace my hopeless romantic side, but I highly suspect that movie had something to do with it. It might also be the reason I get highly nostalgic whenever I watch Young Justice and Jason Marsden is voicing Bart Allen/Kid Flash... -.- (Yes, yes, he also played Goofy's son Max, but I don't have a DVD of The Goofy Movie, so I've only seen it about a fifth as many times as I've seen Lion King 2.)
I've never been able to trace my hopeless romantic side, but I highly suspect that movie had something to do with it. It might also be the reason I get highly nostalgic whenever I watch Young Justice and Jason Marsden is voicing Bart Allen/Kid Flash... -.- (Yes, yes, he also played Goofy's son Max, but I don't have a DVD of The Goofy Movie, so I've only seen it about a fifth as many times as I've seen Lion King 2.)
