System/Mechanics Thoughts on melding RPG/game-like systems into RP combat?

[Rose-Chan]

So, one big thing I feel like bounces around in my head alot when i want to make a combat oriented Roleplay is the idea of melding in a stats system, with maybe mild hints of equipment in the form of weapon choice, and armor/clothing choices. Keeping things simple enough for most people to understand, while making the choices for their characters weaponry, stat spread, and armor to affect their actual combat. Using dice rolls to determine the chance you hit the other player, or creature or anything really. And simply having a simple Stamina system in place to determine when you;re character is effectively unable to continue fighting.

At that point though, it's just an over simplified game, and would it even be enjoyable to most? I've always thought that answer was no. I haven't tried it yet, because i don;t know how people will think. I'm sure there's a niche out there for that kind of meld of descriptive roleplay with game mechanics, without going to the extensive lengths of something like DnD, simply having a system which has rules, easy to understand and follow. I'm not a good writer by any means, so i feel like that's why this idea comes back into my head all the time. It's something i know and could manage or create myself, with enough time, care and testing.

I'm on the fence about even roleplaying again but this idea has never quit on me, especially when i think up a combat oriented rp.

What are everyone's thoughts on the matter?

 

[The Explorer]

You could try the following if you get what i'm talking about:

Kingdom Hearts Re: Chain of Memories Card System x Persona's Fusion system x The freedom of an open system like Gurps or Savage Worlds.


Basically every OC has a card like system for actions, and can fuse those actions into Combos or Special/Limit Break attacks.

You'd have to write a basic story, but not too basic that it feels dull.

Each card could only be used based on meeting milestones in either story progression, or combat success, like the success of an attack.

I can further elaborate if you want.

 

[Rose-Chan]

I know of Persona's Persona Fusion system, and i generally understand the ideas of comboing actions. I would like to hear more about your idea, as that actually has a nice sound to it. I have never heard of Gurps or Savage world, and i'm not familiar with Kingdom Hearts's system. So i wouldn't mind if you elaborate a little. Let's chat in PM about it.

 

[The Explorer]

In KH: CoM each attack was a card, onced used would be reshuffled into the deck, if i remember correctly.

The way my idea works, You could fuse three low level cards you were dealt, and permanently a better card at the cost of making your deck smaller.

Run out of actions or use all of your actions you can and your OC becomes fatigued and can no longer battle.

Gurps and Savage Worlds are RP Systems, not actually RPs. You could do pretty much anything, and be done really fast with SW. Gurps had better stuff though.

If you meet a milestone, it resets after you use it once. But you can use a special attack, so you have to choose when you want to use it, or not.

 

[Rose-Chan]

Gurps and Savage Worlds are RP Systems, not actually RPs. You could do pretty much anything, and be done really fast with SW. Gurps had better stuff though.

I'll check them out here in a moment, then!

In terms of everything else, I understand more of what you're saying now. I like it.

 

[The Explorer]

Also, yes. If done right, and done well, we could make it work with Play by Post or even a descriptive post RP.

 

[The Explorer]

I'll check them out here in a moment, then!

In terms of everything else, I understand more of what you're saying now. I like it.

You have to remember, without a good and dedicated GM, it will fail. And this is without using Dice, so...Your GM better know what they are doing.

 

[Rose-Chan]

I'm 100% aware a good GM makes the rp or game, because i had a friend who gmed with me and a couple friends and she was pretty bad and everyone really dropped out fast. Also, im reading up about GURPS, it's generic, which is what i was looking around to meld with. I was gonna make my own simple generic system, but im still gonna read about GURPS

Currently reading a wiki about it

 

[Alteras]

So it sounds like you have an idea of what stats/mechanics you want brought into the RP. I have a few suggestions of my own, but it mostly depends on your setting. I'll just give advice on how to set up such an RP to make your (and your players lives) easier.

It can work. The entire Dice section of RPN is a proof of that. On the other side, there are a lot of normal RPs that have some stats sprinkled into it. A common example is the "VRMMORPG" themed ones. Most of these RPs tend to have the players themselves do their own calculations and make guesstimates for things that are more "RP-sided," such as "barely nicking someone in your attack." You generally want to lay out a lot of rules and systems of calculations for things you might come across in your RP. Of course, it'll never be perfect as roleplaying is unlimited, but setting such guidelines will help you come to quick decisions as a GM when you gotta do some combat management in your RP.

If your RP is gonna be stats heavy but you don't want your players to become spreadsheet machines, you can handle the calculations yourself. Have your players make the stats, and you do every single stat math yourself. Of course this is kinda ridiculous, so if you have some coding background or some gsheet familiarity, you can build a calculator yourself. That way your players can just plug in numbers, checkbox a few things, and it'll give you some numbers.

 

[The Explorer]

I'm 100% aware a good GM makes the rp or game, because i had a friend who gmed with me and a couple friends and she was pretty bad and everyone really dropped out fast. Also, im reading up about GURPS, it's generic, which is what i was looking around to meld with. I was gonna make my own simple generic system, but im still gonna read about GURPS

Currently reading a wiki about it

Well, my idea was for a generic combat system. To fit in with pretty much any RP. Without the use of Dice, might i add.

 

[The Explorer]

So it sounds like you have an idea of what stats/mechanics you want brought into the RP. I have a few suggestions of my own, but it mostly depends on your setting. I'll just give advice on how to set up such an RP to make your (and your players lives) easier.

It can work. The entire Dice section of RPN is a proof of that. On the other side, there are a lot of normal RPs that have some stats sprinkled into it. A common example is the "VRMMORPG" themed ones. Most of these RPs tend to have the players themselves do their own calculations and make guesstimates for things that are more "RP-sided," such as "barely nicking someone in your attack." You generally want to lay out a lot of rules and systems of calculations for things you might come across in your RP. Of course, it'll never be perfect as roleplaying is unlimited, but setting such guidelines will help you come to quick decisions as a GM when you gotta do some combat management in your RP.

If your RP is gonna be stats heavy but you don't want your players to become spreadsheet machines, you can handle the calculations yourself. Have your players make the stats, and you do every single stat math yourself. Of course this is kinda ridiculous, so if you have some coding background or some gsheet familiarity, you can build a calculator yourself. That way your players can just plug in numbers, checkbox a few things, and it'll give you some numbers.

This is a great reply!

A Milestone Combat System like mine, you'd only have to manage story and combat progress. Instead of stats, you make your OCs with their possible and eventual actions. So that everyone knows how their skill progression from the beginning to end.

Each deck would start with around 35 actions.

But by the end if you meet milestones and use them to unlock more cards. You would have more.

It requires every OC to be planned out from the beginning.

 

[Rose-Chan]

So it sounds like you have an idea of what stats/mechanics you want brought into the RP. I have a few suggestions of my own, but it mostly depends on your setting. I'll just give advice on how to set up such an RP to make your (and your players lives) easier.

It can work. The entire Dice section of RPN is a proof of that. On the other side, there are a lot of normal RPs that have some stats sprinkled into it. A common example is the "VRMMORPG" themed ones. Most of these RPs tend to have the players themselves do their own calculations and make guesstimates for things that are more "RP-sided," such as "barely nicking someone in your attack." You generally want to lay out a lot of rules and systems of calculations for things you might come across in your RP. Of course, it'll never be perfect as roleplaying is unlimited, but setting such guidelines will help you come to quick decisions as a GM when you gotta do some combat management in your RP.

Currently i'm feeling more inspired by JRPGs and their stats systems, but simplifying the numbers to more manageable levels that would make the math much easier to deal with. I've seen a ton of those VRMMORPG roleplays and know a friend of mine working on one. They were another source of inspiration as well, but i guess i'd want more guidelines into it, like actually specifying what "barely nicking them" or "hitting a weak point" would actually do. Giving actual calculations, even if simple. Or things like having your character's vision obstructed and such would be considered. Of course, i would want it to be *fun* first and foremost, so i think making it easy to understand overall would be the goal.

If your RP is gonna be stats heavy but you don't want your players to become spreadsheet machines, you can handle the calculations yourself. Have your players make the stats, and you do every single stat math yourself. Of course this is kinda ridiculous, so if you have some coding background or some gsheet familiarity, you can build a calculator yourself. That way your players can just plug in numbers, checkbox a few things, and it'll give you some numbers.

Not gonna lie, i was preparing myself to bear that kind of work. I don't have Gsheet knowledge or coding knowledge. though im sure tutorials out there exist which i could use to help make it in Gsheet. If it;s simple enough, i wouldn't need more than a few variables saying things like their attack and defense values, and include other info like barely hitting, weak points, and resistances. maybe i'm over simplifying it, but i hope the idea comes across.

A Milestone Combat System like mine, you'd only have to manage story and combat progress. Instead of stats, you make your OCs with their possible and eventual actions. So that everyone knows how their skill progression from the beginning to end.

Each deck would start with around 35 actions.

But by the end if you meet milestones and use them to unlock more cards. You would have more.

It requires every OC to be planned out from the beginning.

Now i understand what you meant more clearly by a milestones system, and it sounds great. In conjunction with some simple stats, i think it would allow for players to get as complex or as simple as they want. Which is a huge thing i wanted in a system. I actually have a few old power ideas in mind that might work amazingly in a system like that. That's honestly very cool, with some management i think it'd work really well. Awesome idea.

 

[Grey]

I'll be back in the morning because this is my jam, but for now: Tutorial - Dice & You

 

[The Explorer]

Currently i'm feeling more inspired by JRPGs and their stats systems, but simplifying the numbers to more manageable levels that would make the math much easier to deal with. I've seen a ton of those VRMMORPG roleplays and know a friend of mine working on one. They were another source of inspiration as well, but i guess i'd want more guidelines into it, like actually specifying what "barely nicking them" or "hitting a weak point" would actually do. Giving actual calculations, even if simple. Or things like having your character's vision obstructed and such would be considered. Of course, i would want it to be *fun* first and foremost, so i think making it easy to understand overall would be the goal.



Not gonna lie, i was preparing myself to bear that kind of work. I don't have Gsheet knowledge or coding knowledge. though im sure tutorials out there exist which i could use to help make it in Gsheet. If it;s simple enough, i wouldn't need more than a few variables saying things like their attack and defense values, and include other info like barely hitting, weak points, and resistances. maybe i'm over simplifying it, but i hope the idea comes across.



Now i understand what you meant more clearly by a milestones system, and it sounds great. In conjunction with some simple stats, i think it would allow for players to get as complex or as simple as they want. Which is a huge thing i wanted in a system. I actually have a few old power ideas in mind that might work amazingly in a system like that. That's honestly very cool, with some management i think it'd work really well. Awesome idea.

Well the reason I opted for no stats, is that it would rely on story progression as well.

Anything you could have stats for, you may simply write as an action. Make it a card and the GM deals you randomly five cards you can use in the battle.

You don't need stats at all, but if you want them, by all means go right ahead.

Instead of Dexterity 5

You would write actions for the stuff you would need to do with Dexterity 5.

Then when you are not in battle, you can change your deck to suit the next battle you will face.

 

[Rose-Chan]

Okay, so my big question is, assuming stats are not used on the cards, would that mean instead that the cards themselves show numbers for their damage values (or values for anything for that matter) or are the cards/actions only entirely *text*? There is also a flaw i see, in that a system like that would definitely be fun, but for a text based roleplay, im unsure about how easily someone could grasp onto it. Or how easily it could be implemented into more freeform roleplay. (Thanks to Grey's tutorial for giving me a good word to use.)

I feel like i would honestly have to see it/try it working in action to fully grasp it myself, that's the kind of learner i am.

I'll be back in the morning because this is my jam, but for now: Tutorial - Dice & You

Amazing tutorial, and i'm checking out Risus right now to see what it's on about. I hope to talk with you sometime!

 

[The Explorer]

Okay, so my big question is, assuming stats are not used on the cards, would that mean instead that the cards themselves show numbers for their damage values (or values for anything for that matter) or are the cards/actions only entirely *text*? There is also a flaw i see, in that a system like that would definitely be fun, but for a text based roleplay, im unsure about how easily someone could grasp onto it. Or how easily it could be implemented into more freeform roleplay. (Thanks to Grey's tutorial for giving me a good word to use.)

I feel like i would honestly have to see it/try it working in action to fully grasp it myself, that's the kind of learner i am.




Amazing tutorial, and i'm checking out Risus right now to see what it's on about. I hope to talk with you sometime!

That is a big problem, isn't it?

Unfortunately i'm just making stuff up as i go along.

Hm...I'm sure i could come up with a proper solution if given the time.

 

[The Explorer]

That is a big problem, isn't it?

Unfortunately i'm just making stuff up as i go along.

Hm...I'm sure i could come up with a proper solution if given the time.

I came up with all of those ideas on the fly, so give me some time.

 

[Rose-Chan]

Yeah, i kind of understood that. I'm just expressing possible some concerns. Im more concerned about the limits of what can be done with Text-based roleplay in a system with cards versus using dice rolls and numbers. Im sure there'd be a way to make it work.

The Milestones idea is definitely good, and applicable to more than just "cards", as well. It's the part i'm actually most intrigued with.

 

[The Explorer]

Yeah, i kind of understood that. I'm just expressing possible some concerns. Im more concerned about the limits of what can be done with Text-based roleplay in a system with cards versus using dice rolls and numbers. Im sure there'd be a way to make it work.

I thought about it, what if we had a thread in the Extra Page dedicated to just explaining how the Combat System works?

The way I imagine it working is without numbers.

Example:

Cloud Strife vs Hulk

Cloud's Rper lands the first hit and gains a milestone for it, uses that milestone to chain it into a combo.

Hulk's Rper uses the "Thunderclap" action that he or she had been saving, and bursts Cloud's eardrums leading to his defeat.

HOWEVER!

This would be written descriptively as possible, using at least a paragraph for this fight, from each RPer.

Of course longer battles would be longer.

Example 2:

OC vs OC- Early or First fight.

The first Rper uses a milestone to initiate a first attack on the enemy OC and uses a basic attack action before proceeding to step back.

The enemy OC uses a counter action he or she gained from Act Fusion, and sends the first OC flying.

This goes on for a while until one of them runs out of actions and is fatigued.

If it is an RP where death is expected you could just reword fatigue to death.

Or if you want the loser to heal over time, you could make it to where after a certain amount of losses, they become injured, and have to heal up.

 

[Rose-Chan]

I thought about it, what if we had a thread in the Extra Page dedicated to just explaining how the Combat System works?

Good idea. Actually, *great* idea. it would allow us to really test everything out. I want to mention once i get a hang of it, i might see what could be done using some power ideas i've had. see how flexible it is.

 

[The Explorer]

Good idea. Actually, *great* idea. it would allow us to really test everything out. I want to mention once i get a hang of it, i might see what could be done using some power ideas i've had. see how flexible it is.

I'll get to working on it.

 

[Rose-Chan]

Alright, let me know when you;ve got things worked out on that end. Im gonna prolly relax for a bit, its getting late for me. Might work more on my own ideas tomorrow.

 

[Grey]

Looks like you have something worked out. I'm gonna share some thoughts generally, though, in case they're useful. Brace some Game Design Opinions.

Right off the bat, I'm going to counsel against building your own system - it's more work than it seems like, and getting a low number of functional mechanics is basically a game design holy grail. Particularly where you're emphasising combat, so balance counts. That said, more power to you if you try it; just make sure you read a few existing systems to try and learn what works, what doesn't, and to nick any especially good idea for further development.

The second thing is that I don't, generally, rate generic systems very highly. They can be alright as learning tools but they frequently require a fair amount of tweaking, and more importantly, they tend to have poor ludonarrative synergy. See, every system highlights different areas of play and incentivizes different behaviours and approaches. They also feel different in use, particularly where combat is involved. Apocalypse World combat has a vastly different flow and gamefeel to Exalted combat which is again a different reality entirely to something like FATE.
D&D has gotten better at non-dungeon crawling stuff, but at the end of the day it encourages a play structure that resembles analogue Diablo or Borderlands - go to place, kill monsters, get loot, somewhere in all of this plot happens and is not well-supported by the rules.

If you're looking for something reminicent of a JRPG but with stripped down numbers (smart) that's going to have some specific demands. I get that's the broad mechanical feel you're going for, biut I have a few questions.

1. How lethal do you want combat to be?
2. How fast do you want it to be?
3. Do you want it to feel gritty and grounded, or go for a more over-the-top anime vibe?
4. Do you want something more story heavy, or more combat heavy? Or a reasonably even split?
5. Is there a particular setting or settings you have in mind?

Also, if you're interested I have space in a couple of my RPs if you want to try out playing with a system on a forum.

I'm curious to see what you and Explorer come up with using this current paradigm, though - I'll be keeping eyes-on, so feel free to ping me either of you'd like some input on what you have.

 

[Rose-Chan]

If you're looking for something reminicent of a JRPG but with stripped down numbers (smart) that's going to have some specific demands. I get that's the broad mechanical feel you're going for, biut I have a few questions.

1. How lethal do you want combat to be?
2. How fast do you want it to be?
3. Do you want it to feel gritty and grounded, or go for a more over-the-top anime vibe?
4. Do you want something more story heavy, or more combat heavy? Or a reasonably even split?
5. Is there a particular setting or settings you have in mind?

1. Combat wouldn't be generally lethal for the players, i wouldn't want a person's player to die, hence why i reference Stamina, as opposed to saying health for the characters. However, i may change this.

2. I want combat to be able to flow easily, probably pretty fast. Keeping dice rolling to an actual minimum, and more like a background element for the fight. So you can type out how your character acts and works however you like, and the damage will be calculated mostly behind the scenes. Probably just shown upon request or whenever the GM posts about an enemy's status (or, you could easily hide it like most JRPGs decide to do unless someone has some analysis ability.) And, to mention your statement about creating your own system? I mean, perhaps there is some jrpg inspired system out there i could use. I'd have to do some serious searching probably.

3. Seeing as JRPGs are the inspiration, i would prefer more of the anime vibe. Especially since alot of inspiration I've drawn for character powers come from anime or anime media.The big thing is, i guess, the one part i;d have to account for is.

4. Good question, i'm still considering it. Maybe focus more on combat, because story writing isn't my strong suit. That doesn't mean i;d just make there not be one. (i mean, if all else fails an arena rp is... generic but works)

5. I'm still considering this aspect, as im kind of *too* into one game right now, being Mary Skelter. But i feel like just ripping the concept of the setting of that game. (a giant city sunken into the ground which is a living creature using mimicry to create an environment and monsters.) That is, unless i literally turn this idea i have into a fandom rp, maybe some form of AU or similar. I
In short, i'm unsure.

 

[Grey]

I'll go over that in more detail after work, but right now I get the distinct feeling you'd be well served by something that uses the Apocalypse Engine.