The Swiss army Eclipse

[Telum]

I’ve been toying with the idea of bring in an npc eclipse that mostly knows charms form other groups. The reason behind this is he is a Sidereal experiment on what impact the use of solar charms has on the length of time before the great curse takes full hold again.


That said other than the ones stated in the Eclipse section are there any stipulations to what charms he could learn. Also what would a good spread of charms be, and can you combo charms from different groups?

 

[Tsuranis]

Yes, you can combo charms from different groups. An eclipse can learn pretty much any charm that doesn't specifically declare they can't learn it, as far as I'm aware. It's going to be a downright expensive character if you don't intend on taking any solar charms though! I recommend taking the prerequisites to any abyssal charms you want as the solar mirrors.

 

[Arrghus]

Your Sidereals know of the Great Curse? Who told them that? I have to kill them for giving the Sidereals an actual chance to save Creation, otherwise my plan is doomed.


But yeah, pretty much what Tsuranis said. I don't know the exact rules for Spirit och Alchemical Charms, but so long as you don't add non-Reflexives from different Abilities (Lunar Charms can be added at will), you should be fine.


As for Charms, the Lunar Excellencies are nice for flexibility, and Infernal Excellencies rock. Lunars have the best Ox-Body (four -2 AND extra dying health levels in case something happens). Spirits have Essence Plethora, which is Immanent Solar Glory, only with lower requirements and you can refill it normally, Reserve of Will, which gives extra Willpower for big Combos, Measure the Wind which is a cheap, weak form of All-Encompassing Sorcerer's Sight, and Principle of Motion, which is an Extra Action Charm that you pay for ahead of time and doesn't count as a Charm activation.


Both Lunars and Abyssals have their own versions of Immanent Solar Glory, which when combined with Essence Plethora and Immanent Solar Glory itself means you have a pool on par with the Deathlords (There are four Charms, giving 10 motes each, and can (presumably, don't know about Essence Plethora) be bought once per point of Essence. At Essence 5 that's 4*5*10=200 extra motes in addition to your normal pool). Though someone might have figured that out and set up some kind of rule against it.


Since it's Sidereals we're talking though, I guess you're going to have to aim for lots of Martial Arts (Siderals are better at Sidereal Charms anyway) and since I don't have Scroll of the Monk, I can't help you there.


Abyssal and Infernal charms are pretty much the only ones that really rival Solar ones in terms of sheer power. With Abyssal Charms you're pretty much going to end up with the Mirror's of what you'd have taken normally, and with Infernals... I dunno'.


Lots of stuff, and yet I feel as though I haven't really said anything at all. Weird.

 

[Tsuranis]

How do people tend to run similar charms like that anyway? Personally as a GM I would frown upon people "breaking the limit" using Immanent Solar Glory and its mirror - I'd say they both count towards the same limit. Equally I wouldn't let someone take every ox-body technique a number of times equal to resistance/stamina, but have the total number of similar charms add up towards it.

 

[Dracogryff]

The only clear limitation that I've seen so far that isn't explicitly stated in Core is that you can't ignore prerequisites, or 'cherry pick' if you will, from another Exalt's Charm trees. And at 16 XP a Charm...it's about as bad as being Brigid's Heir, cost-wise. Dang. And I also personally wonder how those Sids are getting a Lunar, Infernal, or whatever, to willingly teach this guy all their dirty little secrets. Most people don't just go, 'You want to learn all my awesome secret powers? Sure, no problem!' after all. And how they learned of the existence of the Great Curse, too. O.o


Other people are doing better jobs of listing off good Charms, though Relentless Lunar Fury and some Fury-OK Charms would surely not be amiss, and something to look into if there are people giving out all their dirty secrets. Good luck with this idea.


And, noting the new question, personally, I'm generally rather inclined, particularly in the case of Ox Body, to limit them to their own or bust. But then, I've also been tempted to take Ox Body out as a buyable charm and just give a PC their Essence or Stamina/Resistance, whichever is lower, in Ox Bodies, just automatically, since it's an almost needed charm, but nobody in my group ever buys it outside of chargen because of the expense if they don't have the ability/attribute favored...and even if so, generally have too many other Charms they want more.


Plethora-type Charms, I'd be inclined to limit it to cap at wherever the Solar's plethroa-ish Charm's cap is, if anything. Considering it's 16 XP to add 10 to their pool however, and will have to obey whatever rules that particular pool adder has...I haven't worried as much on this one, personally.

 

[Plague of Hats]

It's not actually been done yet, but there will definitely be errata limiting the stacking of health level and Essence pool boosters.


Anyway, Dematerialize is always a great idea. Some form of Affinity (Element) Control is good, especially Air and Earth, and Landscape Travel.

 

[Virjigorm]

First, regarding Ox Body and the essence pool boosters, I would say that each essence increase charm is different from the others and buying them this way (along with any prerequisites) is so ridiculously expensive that I wouldn't restrict it. Ox Body is a bit different, since it is really the same charm for everyone, it just works slightly differently for each exalt type. I would allow the purchase of different types of Ox-Body, but count them all toward the normal max.


That said...


You should look at Lunar Stamina charms like Hide Toughening Essence, Bruise Relief Method, and Frenzied Bear Fortification (plus the trees that follow them). A Strength Excellency (1 or 2) is a cheap way to buy extra damage on any type of attack. Lunars just plain own combat, so look to their charmset for these kinds of things.


Sidereals do Martial Arts in a big way, but the training is a bit prohibitive (learning a complete Celestial style first). I would look to their charms for manipulative abilities. The Sidereal Investigation tree is amazing... Ride has some cool familiar enhancing stuff you can't get anywhere else. Efficient Secretary Technique and Terminal Sanction are great, as well as any Fateful (Ability) Excellency.


Spirit charms are generally not as powerful as Celestial Exalted charms, but Measure the Wind and Principle of Motion are useful. Boons and Curses are cool, but remember you have to learn them the way the teacher knows them. Dematerialize and Donning the Spiritual Armor are nice as well.


Dragon-Blooded charms are one area I'm just not very well-read in, so I've got nothing there.


If you're training under Sidereals, figuring out how to get Abyssal or Infernal charms would be tricky. I doubt that you'd find anything in those charmsets that is super-useful to a "swiss-army" concept though, since Abyssal charms are just the same types of things Solars get, but with more angst. Infernal charms...are strange.


Hope something in there helps.

 

[Telum]

Thanks for the help, I think any Ox Bodies will and should all count toward the normal max. I had forgotten about essence pool boosting charms the best I had come up with before for essence cost mitigation were Abyssal essence gaining charms.


About some of the logistical issues. It's not that they know about the Great Curse it's more that they saw the solars go crazy and the want to know what part if any solar charms played. Second the training it would come from Sidereal with a Dragon-blooded and spirit aid, if he gets lunar stuff the most likely source would be his lunar mate, as for any other groups they would come from shady Eclipse deals.

 

[Telum]

Quick question: which of the two solar essence pools does Essence Plethora add to?

 

[Tsuranis]

Neither - they officially can no longer learn it


MoeP: Alchemicals says that eclipses can't learn foreign charms that mimic effects that solars already have, such as ox-bodies and essence pool expanders.

 

[Persell]

Stealth errata for the win!

 

[Telum]

OK, White Wolfs RetConing aside which one would it have increased?

 

[Tsuranis]

It would have increased peripheral.

 

[Dracogryff]

Neither - they officially can no longer learn it
MoeP: Alchemicals says that eclipses can't learn foreign charms that mimic effects that solars already have, such as ox-bodies and essence pool expanders.

In-ter-est-ing.


It seems that they cannot learn First, Second or Third (Ability) Excellencies, either. I would assume that having their own would count as the prerequisite for a Charm of another Exalt that did require such, then.


Good to know.