The new Mask of Winters is...

[Sorrow]

... a Dawn Caste? I just read his abilities scores and his highest ones belong all to dawn caste. This might explain why he has no Medicine and Lore score.


Do you like this change? I myself do not. After all I have connected Mask of Winters with the twilight caste Larquen Quen in my game and I would hate to change his backstory after the PC's found his true identity(and a very intresting clue to the nature of deathlords).  


Apart form that I always imagined Mask of Winters as the mad-power-hungry-sorcerer sort of a deathlord with him summoning-animating Juggernaut and all that and the Lion as the authoritan-brutal-combat one.

 

[Solfi]

... Do they come out and say he was a Dawn Caste? Or is it the actual array of Abilities he has at his disposal that annoys you?


If neither is the case, don't fall into the stereotype-trap (which was always the problem with the old WoD). WW has done a great job to let you bypass that particular can of worms in Exalted; but it still happens from time to time.


... if the latter offends you; I can't help you. Golden Rule yourself out of your own hole.

 

[Cthulhu_Wakes]

He was always a Twilight, unless Second Ed has changed his backstory completely, but we won't know until they release more about him Personally, I give him his Lore, it was just a simple goof.

 

[Persell]

A twilight caste can have a higher melee skill than lore skill. doesn't make him a dawn.

 

[Silence In Daylight]

Also, Larquen Quen died. And got turned into a Deathlord.


 That just might affect his ability spread a bit...

 

[Cthulhu_Wakes]

True, they could have spread out what he needed more, ala Akuma tizing someone Yozi style. That's what a Deathlord is if you think about it. An Akuma for a Malfean, just a little different stock you have to use.

 

[Gtroc]

the lack of lore must be a mistake, or else he cannot read. and then I would feel bad for him, and I am not sure I could punch him in his face. I mean, what with all the harsh mockery. poor guy, over three thousand years old, and he never learned to read.

 

[Sorrow]

... Do they come out and say he was a Dawn Caste? Or is it the actual array of Abilities he has at his disposal that annoys you?
If neither is the case, don't fall into the stereotype-trap (which was always the problem with the old WoD). WW has done a great job to let you bypass that particular can of worms in Exalted; but it still happens from time to time.


... if the latter offends you; I can't help you. Golden Rule yourself out of your own hole.

I agree with you, I also don't like stereotypes but i am thinking they might have gone out too far this time... :roll:


They didn't actually say he was a dawn caste, but still all the dawn abilities at +6 plus other 3 non-twilight abilities at +6and no twilight abilitiy more than 5(2 at zero) and his Physical Attributes far far above his mental ... makes him seem more like a stereotypical dawn

 

[Sorrow]

True' date=' they could have spread out what he needed more, ala Akuma tizing someone Yozi style. That's what a Deathlord is if you think about it. An Akuma for a Malfean, just a little different stock you have to use.[/quote']
That is a cool idea, after all the deathlords were created to destroy Creation and what better than the dawn caste abilities.


I hope though not all malfeans had in mind what MoW's one had because then all the deathlords will end up as an amagalm of Conan and Hulk :wink: .

 

[Silence In Daylight]

Something tells me Lover, Bishop, and that other female one (with the one kid Abyssal--not Princess) are likely to be just a tad different...

 

[wordman]

...all the deathlords will end up as an amagalm of Conan and Hulk

Somehow "Dowager of the Irreverent Vulgate in Unrent Veils smash!" doesn't have the same ring to it.

 

[Guest]

I chuck this up to the usual "New White Wolf Developer Dick Swinging Syndrome", and the idiot in charge not actually having read the VOLUMES of material on Mask of Winters already available.


Unless he's meant to represent a generic Deathlord, of which there should not be stats for ever, and they should have in any case clearly labeled as such.


It's things like this (and tics, and incompatability) that make me glad I both can't afford and don't want 2E....

 

[Flagg]

It's things like (and tics, and incompatability) that make me glad Ibothcan't afford and don't want 2E....

What's incompatible?


-S

 

[Guest]

The $400 dollars of books that the bastards already sold me?


More than that when you consider I had to get three copies of the core before I got one that the pages didn't fall out of.

 

[Flagg]

The $400 dollars of books that the bastards already sold me?

They're incompatible? How?


-S

 

[Jakk Bey]

Considering some of ass reaming House Rules that aren't going to applicable to fix things that are now fixed in canon, I don't see why you can't just modify your game.  


Heck, as soon as I finish reading through the material, I'm going to convert over my game to 2E, because the fixes work pretty well--most of which were in line with my own fixes, but I think I'll keep my Craft Ability the same rather than the flavorful, but less useful Craft from 2E.


You don't have to use 2E if you don't like the fixes, but it's not bad, in the least.  Makes things flow a lot smoother, the Core Book is a LOT more useful now, with a lot of good information that was spread out amongst a ton of books now in one handy place--in part because they wento to a smaller type face and more useful sidebars. I don't think it's incompatible, and as soon as I digest it all, I'm probably going to resubmit the Modernis setting for 2E.


I may also submit another Exalted setting later on.  A Third Age Exalted, where the Wheel of Ages has moved, but the World of Darkness doesn't evolve.  More mundane, but still with magic and an alternate history that will be similar to our own, but decidedly different in other respects.

 

[Guest]

It's largely matters of personal taste.


Most of the setting is fine, but crunch from books I have is now pretty much useless. I have played in games with tick systems, and I hated em. To me they make it work less like an RPG and more like a CCG.


And, well, frankly, I still feel lied to, as before the developer switch, we were frequently told that if there was a second edition, it owuld only be the core and to clean up charms and remove speedbumps. Now, we have a WoTC style rebuild of the whole series coming, with 5 books for magic alone...


I know they are out to make money, but come on. Some of us are feeding kids. (And myself. I like food.) I'll stick with 1E, and save my money. The only "fix" I really liked and stole was the way the anima's come up at 11+ motes. Was pretty easy to engineer that into a 1E game.

 

[Flagg]

I still don't unserstand what's "incompatible".


-S

 

[Jakk Bey]

While the books have the full color illustrations littered around the book, and smaller type, it's far from a WotC rebuild.


The book looks a lot like a WotC book, but it's still a very comparable system. And it's still WW material, despite the look of the book being different than the last.  The packing of more material into the Core is a huge plus in my book, as well as clear, concise Charm lists, and a centering of material.  It's a good job, and the way the Core is set up, you don't need the other magic books--it will be nice to have, if you feel the neccessity to collect things together, and for noobs to the system, the graphic change is going to be welcome to make them feel more at home, but the material is WW.  


If you have a buddy who has it, pick it up, and give it a good read through.  They did a decent job here, and tossing it out on rumor and hearsay isn't terribly fair.

 

[Silence In Daylight]

Speaking of rumor and hearsay, I'm a bit conflicted about how the Solar slant in the original core book got tossed out in favor of a non-partisan approach...and what that likely indicates for the Manuals of Power.


 On one hand, it makes for far less confusing reading later on by newbies. On the other hand, it just doesn't feel WW-fy without the different slants, perspectives, and points of view...

 

[lowguppy]

I get the impression that WW is trying actively to distinguish Exalted from their WoD stuff.

 

[Cthulhu_Wakes]

It's largely matters of personal taste.
Most of the setting is fine, but crunch from books I have is now pretty much useless. I have played in games with tick systems, and I hated em. To me they make it work less like an RPG and more like a CCG.


And, well, frankly, I still feel lied to, as before the developer switch, we were frequently told that if there was a second edition, it owuld only be the core and to clean up charms and remove speedbumps. Now, we have a WoTC style rebuild of the whole series coming, with 5 books for magic alone...


I know they are out to make money, but come on. Some of us are feeding kids. (And myself. I like food.) I'll stick with 1E, and save my money. The only "fix" I really liked and stole was the way the anima's come up at 11+ motes. Was pretty easy to engineer that into a 1E game.

Where on earth did you here a second edition game would ONLY be a core book? Have you not kept track of the last three editions they did for the WoD games? It was assumed by all it would be a complete re-hash of the system.

 

[Jakk Bey]

I think they're trying to appeal to the fantasy gamer, and with that, WotC did a great job with production values, and price points.  


Your typical D&D player isn't that put out by the cost of the book--but they demand full color and bang for their buck. While WW has done a fair job in the past at providing content at a price, they just never did compete for the pretty that WotC put into their books.  


Add to it, the sheer amount of information and build mechanics that they drop into their books--and you've got a situation like Mac versus PCs.


Macs give you lots of doo dads, but not as the same degree of customization for hardware.  PCs allow you a lot of freedom to play with the hardware, not as well thought out with their software.  


WotC give you lots of customizable possibility with the system, but not huge amounts of material on plot and background.  WW gives you lots of background, and funkey cool abilities, but less about the actual build to create your own--it is more inferred.  But WotC give you a very pretty package.  WW has traditionally been more stylized in their packaging, and long on info.


WW is learning that you can do both, and you need to do both if you want to woo new players who have been raised on the WotC product now.  Been years since the WotC editions came out, and its time to get them into a new system.

 

[Solfi]

About the "pretty" part, I've always thought the art in WW:s books were far superior to that of WotC. Just not in colour...

 

[Jakk Bey]

The WotC books are more polished.  Design wise, WW tries a lot neat stuff. Not all of it works--the somewhat distracting backgrounds, the heaps of sometimes bad art, the odd and jarring, sometimes inappropriate illustrations more for effect than theme--sometimes just plain awful stuff used as space filler even.


The WotC books are laid out better, and their indexes actually work.  They have much better editors in that respect, and they can do layout much better--all that experience with cards, gave them some very good graphics editors, and keeping track of all their information, across how many decks of crap, made them good at organizing.  It's not a bad thing to admit that WotC does some things well.