The last scene from MoEP:Sidereals

[Quchu]

You guys are being silly. The Ebon Dragon would scribble "Mrs. Scarlet Empress " a thousand times on the bones and innards of still-alive Immaculate monks and him thinking of her would cause all mortal beings around him to bleed their brain matter out the nose.

 

[strawberryleaves]

Just occurred to me...why is everyone saying 'Mrs. Scarlett Empress' instead of 'Mr. Scarlett Empress?'


And of course we're being silly. Placing Exalted's metaplot into a high school setting--that's gotta be silly.


[faraway look] Hmm, I wonder how that would work...

 

[Quchu]

Somewhat like this?

 

[strawberryleaves]

Oh...my.


My players are going to love their next campaign... =)

 

[Heaven's Thunder Hammer]

Which book?!?!

The gist of the idea came mostly from the 1E Dragon Blooded book, but it's all basically hints. Throughout canon, these include:

• When the Empress decides to mutiny in order to find the Sword of Creation, she does so after locating First Age knowledge. There are several versions of this story in canon that at slightly different. One of them, for example, says the key is in "several tattered books and an ancient map". Given a couple of the other hints, many suspect that one of these books is the Broken-Winged Crane.
  
• All of the versions of this story go out of their way to avoid naming "the officer" that becomes the Scarlet Empress. Similar to Abyssals, its considered that she had to sacrifice her name to become an Infernal, and thus it got erased from history.
  
• The story of Mnemon interrogating a demon towards the end of the 1E DB book is more clear than most about the involvement of the Ebon Dragon.

There are other bits around. Singly, they don't amount to much, but they start to add up.


There are, however, some other choices

Very helpful. Yeah, the 1E DB hardcover along with the splats paints a very clear picture. Any other books I should look up?

 

[RedMantis]

Yeah, my ST basically takes it for granted that none of us are up on the meta-plot, not really canon, not actually stated in the book, but generally thought to be true, opinions formed by developer hints information. I find it highly annoying, especially when he berates us for making in game decisions based on in character information that is completely wrong out of game.


Anyway, in our game we've actually managed to find out when/where the Empress was when she left Creation and there happened to be a tear in reality leading to Yozi. Then again, our ST has gone deeeeeeep into the meta-plot with his Creation spanning/creation destroying plots and conveniently ignored huge portions of the books that he didn't bother reading until we put the book in front of his face.


As for the vision in the OP, just go with Flagg's theories. He hates it when he has nobody to contradict.

 

[Gtroc]

Weird side thought: Why are the Yozis and there minions outside of fate? I mean they lost and were forced, by the collected forces of the exalts and the gods, into imprisonment. wouldn't there have been a few of those guys who would have asked for the concessions to include inclusion in fate? as I said, just a weird thought.

 

[Quchu]

I think it's because a Primordial is bigger than the Loom of Fate. They just can't fit in. :|

 

[Jukashi]

Weird side thought: Why are the Yozis and there minions outside of fate? I mean they lost and were forced, by the collected forces of the exalts and the gods, into imprisonment. wouldn't there have been a few of those guys who would have asked for the concessions to include inclusion in fate? as I said, just a weird thought.

No primordial can be part of Fate, nor can anything else that existed before the Loom of Fate was started.

 

[FluffySquirrel]

That actually canon somewhere?.. never heard that one before

 

[MrMephistopheles]

And as Quchu said..

I think it's because a Primordial is bigger than the Loom of Fate.

The Primordials and their component souls the Loom is just a an artifact that twitches and goes can't compute!!! can't compute!! when they stick their nose into Creation.

 

[Kyeudo]

Actually, the component souls of a Yozi, the Third and Second Circle Demons, can become tied to the Loom of Fate if they spend too much time in Creation. It breaks quickly once they leave, but for a time they become part of Fate. The same could theoretically be true for the Yozis, now that they are no longer the same beings that once ruled Creation (and the Five Maidens did have Autobot change the Loom a bit just after the war), but that would require that a Yozi be set free in Creation for quite a time. No one wants to do experiments.

 

[MrMephistopheles]

Got a page number on that.

 

[Kyeudo]

Got a page number on that.

MoEP: Sidereals, Page 60: "The longer such a being remains within Creation, the greater the chance that being follows Creation's patterns of cause and effect, and so becomes subject to the Loom."


I think there are other such references, but they are buried in the text and not so easy to pick out.

 

[MrMephistopheles]

In the case of demons, that passage applies to First Circle demons.


I'm 90% sure that 2nd Circle Demons, and 100% sure that 3rd Circle Demons are not. To quote that section "...and some creatures are so powerful, and so strongly tied to alien fates, that the Loom never registers the creature's presence."

 

[Nemal]

Weird side thought: Why are the Yozis and there minions outside of fate? I mean they lost and were forced, by the collected forces of the exalts and the gods, into imprisonment. wouldn't there have been a few of those guys who would have asked for the concessions to include inclusion in fate? as I said, just a weird thought.

Think of it like this.


The Loom of Fate is basically an Artifact that enforces the natural laws that we all know and love.


Such as: things fall down, actions have consequences, things happen one after another, objects occupy different spaces.


As such, as human beings, the Loom of Fate is necessary for us to live.


The big secret, though, the one Sidereals would never, ever, ever admit, is that the Loom of Fate is also unimportant. -We- need these things. It doesn't mean everyone does. The Loom of Fate is to the natural order of the cosmology what, say, farms are to human civilization. Yes, there need to be farms. Yes, if farms are messed up, everyone else in the big cities is going to have a bad day. Nevertheless, the really important stuff in civilization happens at the top- what are the government leaders doing? Is there a war going on? Etc. etc.


This only becomes more pointed because there are people out there that -don't- need farms. In this case, the Primordials. They don't really care if things fall or if causality applies all the time or not, because they came from an environment where these things didn't (the Wyld). Sure, they find it -comfortable- that these rules apply, which is why they made Creation the way it is, but if yesterday came after today, they really wouldn't care all that much.


Which is why the Loom can't keep up with them. If a yozi flexes his causality-breaking muscle, the Loom goes "WTF?" and crashes. And then tries to cover up for it and pretend like it was its own idea all along.


-That- is why they are Outside of Fate. It means that they don't follow the rules, don't need to follow the rules, and thus the rules don't apply to them. The Loom cannot control their fate because they behave in ways that defy its rules. Only beings that are made to follow the rules can be Fated like that.

 

[Malekith]

I read a posting from Melissa Uran [though i cant find the posting =/] and this is how i understand part of it:


2. Who was Chejop Kejak talking to? Righteous Tsunami using incomparable body arsenal. Note the eyepatch.


4. Who was this Akuma woman who was leading the assault? She seemed to know Evaja and Evaja recognized her saying, "you're dead!?". the empress


The woman wearing the armor is Memnon, using the armor that was given to the Empress by Kejak back in the day. Oddly, I dont see Ejava in the toon. this is one of the most confusing cartoons ever written. I think the plan changed from the time the artist was commissioned until the words were finally filled in.

 

[Virjigorm]

It seems pretty straight-forward to me.


Kejak is talking to Mnemon, who is wearing Incomparable Body Arsenal. You know that because he calls her by name.


The warstrider is piloted by Tepet Ejava. You know that because the demon queen calls her by name.


Implied/assumed is also that this demon queen is the Scarlett Empress since there are oblique references to this elsewhere.


My speculation is that when Kejak says "Isn't this what we've been working so hard for?" he means either getting the demon tainted Empress off the throne by killing her in this battle, or a second chance to kill the Ebon Dragon. It is possible that the Ebon Dragon is more dangerous, in Kejak's mind, as he is than he would be as a Neverborn and Kejak wants this chance to slay the Yozi once and for all.


If this seems absurd, remember one thing about Sidereals...their Great Curse is blinding hubris, and Kejak is the oldest of them.

 

[wordman]

It is possible that the Ebon Dragon is more dangerous, in Kejak's mind, as he is than he would be as a Neverborn and Kejak wants this chance to slay the Yozi once and for all.
If this seems absurd, remember one thing about Sidereals...their Great Curse is blinding hubris, and Kejak is the oldest of them.

Historically, their blinding hubris tends to manifest specifically around things that are outside fate (such as the Great Contagion). It's possible that Kejak has a great plan for the Empress, but is totally blindsided by the presence of the Ebon Dragon. A typical manifestation of the Great Curse would be a sidereal saying something like "what if the Ebon Dragon has figured out a way to escape" and the idea dismissed with a "that's impossible, we don't have to worry about that" sort of remark.

 

[lordofthestorm]

It is possible that the Ebon Dragon is more dangerous, in Kejak's mind, as he is than he would be as a Neverborn and Kejak wants this chance to slay the Yozi once and for all.
If this seems absurd, remember one thing about Sidereals...their Great Curse is blinding hubris, and Kejak is the oldest of them.

Historically, their blinding hubris tends to manifest specifically around things that are outside fate (such as the Great Contagion). It's possible that Kejak has a great plan for the Empress, but is totally blindsided by the presence of the Ebon Dragon. A typical manifestation of the Great Curse would be a sidereal saying something like "what if the Ebon Dragon has figured out a way to escape" and the idea dismissed with a "that's impossible, we don't have to worry about that" sort of remark.

That and the fact that they also believe that their way is the best way. And that appears to be going swell.

 

[Malekith]

I was thinking the same, but then I started having some doubts,


Why does Memnon look nothing like Memnon, and has an eyepatch, like Rightious Tsunami?


How did Memnon cast Incomparable Body Arsenal, a celestial spell [her magic item only allows her to cast summoning spells, I think.


then there is the quote from Melissa Uran when asked who is standing next to Kejak "I honestly don't know"


I think the orginal quote I referenced earlier was on the old WW forums =/

It seems pretty straight-forward to me.
Kejak is talking to Mnemon, who is wearing Incomparable Body Arsenal. You know that because he calls her by name.


The warstrider is piloted by Tepet Ejava. You know that because the demon queen calls her by name.


Implied/assumed is also that this demon queen is the Scarlett Empress since there are oblique references to this elsewhere.


My speculation is that when Kejak says "Isn't this what we've been working so hard for?" he means either getting the demon tainted Empress off the throne by killing her in this battle, or a second chance to kill the Ebon Dragon. It is possible that the Ebon Dragon is more dangerous, in Kejak's mind, as he is than he would be as a Neverborn and Kejak wants this chance to slay the Yozi once and for all.


If this seems absurd, remember one thing about Sidereals...their Great Curse is blinding hubris, and Kejak is the oldest of them.

 

[Virjigorm]

How did Memnon cast Incomparable Body Arsenal, a celestial spell [her magic item only allows her to cast summoning spells, I think.
then there is the quote from Melissa Uran when asked who is standing next to Kejak

As to the first part, it was suggested at some point that the Empress had in her possession the Mantle of Brigid, which opens up one circle above what you can cast normally. If they have her warstrider, maybe Kejak thieved the Mantle as well and gave it to his favorite caster. It's also possible that the spell is Invulnerable Skin of Bronze with some artistic license.


As to the artist not knowing, maybe she was given a written brief of the scene, describing what it should look like, but without the specific reference to the spell. Heck, maybe she doesn't even play Exalted or know the in-game meaning of the parts of that scene.

 

[Quchu]

Uran is pretty into Exalted herself, if I'm not mistaken. The explanation I remember hearing was that she lost her art notes and couldn't recall the exact details when asked.

 

[Sherwood]

There is a reference in the White and Black Treatise that Memnon is able to cast a few Celestial level spells just like her mother.

 

[Kyeudo]

If I remember correctly, Memnon got her sorcerous upgrade in the accident that destroyed the Realm's first Academy of Sorcery.