TV & Film The Last Jedi Discussion [Spoilers]

[Hall Kervean]

Given that the film is coming out soon (and, indeed, already has in some parts of the world), I figured it was time to congregate and bring the film's discussion into one central location so that people who wanted to avoid spoilers would be able to see. Anything about the movie is ok to say on this thread, spoilers or not. And, again, please keep any spoilers discussion to this thread alone.

Read at your own risk.

 

[Puca_Sprite]

oooh I am so excited for this one! Does anyone have any predictions before they see it? Any theories?

 

[Funkybub]

They wasted a few characters

But oh my god that was fucking good

 

[WolfsbaneRain]

I'm so excited for it!!! Sadly I won't be able to see it until Wednesday because of college finals.... Sad. But I do have a couple theories. I hope we finally find out who Ray's parents are. Personally, I think she's Obi Wan's granddaughter. I mean it would be perfect! She acts a lot like him already. Not to mention the idea of having the correlation of Kilo & Ray vs. Anakin & Obi Wan. I mean it's exactly the same!! Kilo has trouble controlling his emotions just like Anakin did and now it's make him make horrible decisions. While Ray is really in control of her emotions. She even draws peace from the force when fighting to help center her, just like Obi Wan did in the Phantom Menace.

Ugh, they are exactly the same!!! And she even had a vision of Obi Wan talking to her when she first picked up Luke's light saber. I swear. She is Obi Wan's granddaughter. I call it now.

 

[MsPolite]

I'm sorry, but this movie was an insult to starwars lore, and to its fan. This movie was garbage, I hated it

 

[RNDM]

Probably one of the best films I've seen in recent years, for me it was perfect. There was loads of juicy character development (some had more than others) and any time I predicted something would happen, typically my prediction just got spun around. Packed to the brim with great scenes and acting, and something was constantly happening - action, emotional, etc. Like someone else said, a few characters got wasted, but that's nearly one of the only things I disliked about it. Definitely better than The Force Awakens (which was a great film too) in my opinion, HIGHLY recommend it. 9.5/10

 

[Suggy]

Just came back from the cinema literally 5 minutes ago, loved this film.
New characters are awesome, old characters are awesome. Lots of stuff I ddn't expect (Snoke's death, Luke, Yoda fucking with Luke)
Some of the characters weren't as great as I thought they'd be, Phasma could've easily not been there and the movie would be no different, those Porg things annoyed me. Rey is fine, nothing great, just fine

Some parts were excellent. Snoke's death I did not see coming, I knew he'd die, but I thought it'd be in thenext film. The contast between Kylo Ren and Hux I found very interesting, glad Hux is still alive because he might be my favourite (idk why). Casino Land is awesome.

Rose is a cutie and if she dies I will cry forever. Finn and Poe are cool dudes. Leia (rest in peace Carrie Fisher *cry*) is beautiful. Luke is also a cool dude. Yoda is a legend. Admiral Holdo is a legend. Force boy at the end is a cool dude.

I am so fricking glad that they didn't do a cliché thing of making Rey Luke's daughter or some dumb bullshit like that, I'm glad they didn't relate her to any of the characters, rather just make her a cool abandoned force girl

Those Vulptices (The crystal foxes) are my favourite things in the world and I want one.

If I think of anything else about the film I will post here

 

[Suggy]

I'm sorry, but this movie was an insult to starwars lore, and to its fan. This movie was garbage, I hated it

What did you hate about it?

 

[Hall Kervean]

I think it was a rollercoaster; the highs, like Kylo overthrowing the FO and having to jointly run it with Hux, are having to fight against the lows, like the distracting humor, Finn and Rose's arc, and the Porgs being basically Minions and serving no role but marketing and pointless humor. I'm not sure if the movie was pulled down by all of its lows yet; because the lows were low.

 

[Hall Kervean]

Things I liked: The hair-dyed admiral; we'd been faked out about whether or not she was a coward, so when she stayed behind, we realized she had not been the entire time, and that that idea had come subjectively from Poe's perspective. While it is at the cost of logic, her decision to stay behind, something done often pointlessly in movies, actually holds weight here, and seems to be in-character. That's good.
Acting.
Kylo and Rey's force bond.
Praetorian guard fight
Ramming the Mega Star Destroyer
the sail barges
The message from the casino (which is the only good thing in that part of the movie and, ironically enough, was best presented after they'd left the casino world) of "the people who benefit, the bankrollers, don't choose sides." That's a message touched on in TCW and even, to a very small extent with the Selkath, in KOTOR. And it's presented well. They never touch on it later, ofc, because animal cruelty is bad, but what little attention they do give is good.
Kylo leading a coup and overthrowing the First Order and having to jointly rule with Hux is freaking awesome.
The Mega Star Destroyer not being overused.
The ice foxes, despite them technically having no roll other than a deus ex machina. They're visually stunning.
Luke's force ghost, to an extent.
Luke's death, kind of. By that I mean they actually put effort into it, unlike they did with Han's death.
Rey having a power cap of "Rey = Kylo"
The elements of yin-yang beyond just "good and evil;" the idea that even the best have a seed of evil (Rey jumping into the dark side hole) and even the worst have a seed of good inside them (Kylo's reluctance).

Major missed opportunities:
The dark side hole could have had an ancient Sith inside of it. I think all of us would have preferred Rey coming across a holocron of, say, Darth Traya over the long line of Reys.
The kid at the end. They should not have done the ring with the Resistance on it. Why? Because he should have been force sensitive. It would have shown that, no matter what happens, the force will live on.
Snoke's death could have come as a surprise if they hadn't had a camera shot of the lightsaber moving towards him. As soon as that happened, we knew what was going to happen.

What I didn't like: To varying degrees the entire rest of the movie. Luke was not Luke, Leia had the worst case of Deus ex Machina I've ever seen, Poe's arc was empty, the chase scene went on so long in-universe that it became a plot hole, Phasma was wasted, Finn should not have woken up in this film, Luke's death didn't make sense, the humor was haphazardly placed, the casino planet was completely wasted, Yoda's cameo looked ugly and was nothing but fan service, the Porgs were Star Wars's attempts at minions, the ice foxes served no purpose other than deus ex machina, there was more swearing in this Star Wars films than I think any other Star Wars film combined, one of the Praetorian guards was shoved into a fan and chunks of him flew back out for all the young child star wars fans in the audience to see, they had a direct Biblical reference in the movie (Snoke says "Well done, my good and faithful apprentice; a slight twist on "Well done my good and faithful servant"), the divide between the First Order's power and the Resistance's power has been shattered beyond repair in this film to the point where episode 9 will need to have a third party help the Resistance if they want to have a movie beyond a few minutes, and the mega star destroyer's mere existence.


Also I'm upset because Rose looked, acted, and sounded kind of like someone I know irl and so I cheered for her the whole time solely for that reason.

 

[1xp]

I had some problems with it, like in the beginning, the amount of parts that were supposed to be "funny". I mean it's ok to add a few laughs, I just thought there were a bit too many for them to be enjoyable. It just doesn't fit Star Wars. That's just me anyway. Also, I found Finn's fight with Phasma to be quite underwhelming. Despite these, I really did enjoy the movie! I think much has improved from TFA.

 

[Funkybub]

I think it was a rollercoaster; the highs, like Kylo overthrowing the FO and having to jointly run it with Hux, are having to fight against the lows, like the distracting humor, Finn and Rose's arc, and the Porgs being basically Minions and serving no role but marketing and pointless humor. I'm not sure if the movie was pulled down by all of its lows yet; because the lows were low.

I don't ink he's running it in joint it's Hux, he's declared himself supreme leader

 

[Hall Kervean]

I don't ink he's running it in joint it's Hux, he's declared himself supreme leader

Hux has more respect from the military than Kylo. Hux has the power.

 

[Puca_Sprite]

I was unfortunately very disappointed with this...and I had been very excited to see it. =C I like comic relief, but the worst part to me was the poor use of humor and just the general forced feeling of all the jokes.

I didn't feel like Luke was true to character. Snoke seemed pointless and worthless, I still know nothing about him and I don't even particularly care that he was killed. I never felt threatened by him.

 

[MsPolite]

I was unfortunately very disappointed with this...and I had been very excited to see it. =C I like comic relief, but the worst part to me was the poor use of humor and just the general forced feeling of all the jokes.

I didn't feel like Luke was true to character. Snoke seemed pointless and worthless, I still know nothing about him and I don't even particularly care that he was killed. I never felt threatened by him.

welcome back

 

[Hall Kervean]

I was unfortunately very disappointed with this...and I had been very excited to see it. =C I like comic relief, but the worst part to me was the poor use of humor and just the general forced feeling of all the jokes.

I didn't feel like Luke was true to character. Snoke seemed pointless and worthless, I still know nothing about him and I don't even particularly care that he was killed. I never felt threatened by him.

I'm sorry to hear you were disappointed by it. I came in with no expectations, so I liked some of the things they did and disliked, to varying degrees, other things.
Did you have high expectations going into it?

 

[Puca_Sprite]

I'm sorry to hear you were disappointed by it. I came in with no expectations, so I liked some of the things they did and disliked, to varying degrees, other things.
Did you have high expectations going into it?

I did have high expectations, and that is probably why the movie fell short.

I will say I don't think the entire movie was pointless, as I've seen some people say. There were great PARTS. I didn't care for it overall, but there were certain scenes I am glad I went to see.

 

[CastoffCaptain]

I kind of liked it. I'm in agreement about the humor. So much of it was forced. No pun.

To all of those complaining about a non-Luke Luke. Uh, how long has it been since Luke was part of the storyline? He's aged. He's experienced things. If any of us doesn't change after what, forty years, we're living in a bubble. If he was the "same" Luke as when he was basically in his teens, that would be shitty writing.

I was glad there was no Death Star in this one because good Lord, lean much on a concept?

It did feel a lot more like a giant excuse to make political and social statements than "space pirate rebels fight Space Nazis", so... Overall, this one felt less like Star Wars.

But it was pretty, and hurrah for gender/racial diversity!

But the space penguins were horrible.

 

[MsPolite]

but the whole movie was pointless, im not saying u cant like it, but lets call it out for what it is, crap. Also poe did nothing wrong, leia wasnt a good leader in this, luke wanst luke, puple hair admiral chick was a horrible chaacter and reallly stupid, the whole premise hinged on the fact the the 1st order were extremely incompetent, rey really didnt learn anything about being a jedi, and the list goes on and on and on. People Disney doesnt care about us or the franchise, all the movie had was "pretty pictures" but like graphics dont make the game, pretty scenes dont make the movie. and again to reiderate u can like a "bad" movie, i like some bad movies too, but just because u like a movie doent make it good. Lastly if they really wanted more diversity, WHERE ARE THE ALIENS!??!?!?

 

[Borkus Lazorus]

Yeah, kay.

The dark side hole could have had an ancient Sith inside of it. I think all of us would have preferred Rey coming across a holocron of, say, Darth Traya over the long line of Reys.
The kid at the end. They should not have done the ring with the Resistance on it. Why? Because he should have been force sensitive. It would have shown that, no matter what happens, the force will live on.
Snoke's death could have come as a surprise if they hadn't had a camera shot of the lightsaber moving towards him. As soon as that happened, we knew what was going to happen.

but the whole movie was pointless, im not saying u cant like it, but lets call it out for what it is, crap. Also poe did nothing wrong, leia wasnt a good leader in this, luke wanst luke, puple hair admiral chick was a horrible chaacter and reallly stupid, the whole premise hinged on the fact the the 1st order were extremely incompetent, rey really didnt learn anything about being a jedi, and the list goes on and on and on. People Disney doesnt care about us or the franchise, all the movie had was "pretty pictures" but like graphics dont make the game, pretty scenes dont make the movie. and again to reiderate u can like a "bad" movie, i like some bad movies too, but just because u like a movie doent make it good. Lastly if they really wanted more diversity, WHERE ARE THE ALIENS!??!?!?

What I didn't like: To varying degrees the entire rest of the movie. Luke was not Luke, Leia had the worst case of Deus ex Machina I've ever seen, Poe's arc was empty, the chase scene went on so long in-universe that it became a plot hole, Phasma was wasted, Finn should not have woken up in this film, Luke's death didn't make sense, the humor was haphazardly placed, the casino planet was completely wasted, Yoda's cameo looked ugly and was nothing but fan service, the Porgs were Star Wars's attempts at minions, the ice foxes served no purpose other than deus ex machina, there was more swearing in this Star Wars films than I think any other Star Wars film combined, one of the Praetorian guards was shoved into a fan and chunks of him flew back out for all the young child star wars fans in the audience to see, they had a direct Biblical reference in the movie (Snoke says "Well done, my good and faithful apprentice; a slight twist on "Well done my good and faithful servant"), the divide between the First Order's power and the Resistance's power has been shattered beyond repair in this film to the point where episode 9 will need to have a third party help the Resistance if they want to have a movie beyond a few minutes, and the mega star destroyer's mere existence.

Addressing Criticisms
1. A common criticism is Luke's characterization and how it totally buttfuck's his characterisation in the Original Trilogy except that I prefer to believe that it evolves his character. Keep in mind that this is a Luke Skywalker who had the ambition of building a new Jedi Order and when he looked into Ben's mind and saw visions of Ben bringing down everything that he had worked for, it's an incredibly human moment when he draws his saber because he's just that horrified at what Ben will become. If you remember the scene, Luke was shameful at having to nearly kill Ben.

Luke was in the process of recovering and only through Yoda appearing as a Force Ghost, could he recover back to his true self. Luke's characterisation at the final fight scene between him and Ben was true to his nature as a Jedi. He never fought back directly. He never harmed Ben. He uses Ben's anger and conflict to fuck him over and make a decisive win for the Resistance over the First Order.

Because that's how motherfucking Jedi do it.

2. There have been also numerous complaints about how this movie doesn't use enough of the EU. Yeah, no, screw that Darth Traya holocron crap. One theme of this movie is that you don't need bloodlines or need to be related to a super special somebody to be good in the Force. The next generation of force-users will be composed of people and the Force doesn't choose you based on who you were related to.

One thing I am glad for is that this movie fucks over the idea of dynasties and bloodlines in the Force and I'm glad for it. Literally, no one except hardcore EU fanboys will go 'REEEEEEEEEEE' at the idea that Shan Satale, Darth Revan or some other obscure EU character won't be in this movie.

Nitpicks
1. The kid was shown to be Force Sensitive. If you remember the scene correctly, you can spot him telkentically pulling the broom to himself.

2. If you're dissing puppet Yoda's look from the Original Trilogy, then, you must prefer the Prequel's take on Yoda far more than the old trilogy.

3. You use the word 'Deus Ex Machina' but don't really know how to use it correctly.

4. Star Wars has always been violent and gruesome, with the directors growing ever more creative on ways to decorate flesh with lightsabers.

5. Movies are a different type of medium than video games. In video games, there's that aspect of player control while in the movies, you can't tangibly interact with it.

Of course, a better analogy would be style over substance which I can gladly argue over.

 

[MsPolite]

ok first im no a super eu fangirl
2. if luke saved darth vader someone who was already evil, then y not ben who hasnt even commited a crime
3. Deus ex machina means hand of god and describes when some event out of no were saves the protagonist. there were alot of DEM's in this
4. the #1 rule in world building is BE CONSISTENT! and this movies takes all the rules of the older movies and throws it into a bonfire. Not any one could be force sensitive, not any could be a super power badass, and most improtantly if they wanted to show anyone can be great the should have made rey WORK FOR IT TO SHOW THAT WITH HARD WORK ANYONE COULD BE GREAT!.
5. .

Movies are a different type of medium than video games. In video games, there's that aspect of player control while in the movies, you can't tangibly interact with it.

, u missed the point, a good looking movie, although fun, can still be empty, shallow and/or trash.

 

[Hall Kervean]

Yeah, kay.







Addressing Criticisms
1. A common criticism is Luke's characterization and how it totally buttfuck's his characterisation in the Original Trilogy except that I prefer to believe that it evolves his character. Keep in mind that this is a Luke Skywalker who had the ambition of building a new Jedi Order and when he looked into Ben's mind and saw visions of Ben bringing down everything that he had worked for, it's an incredibly human moment when he draws his saber because he's just that horrified at what Ben will become. If you remember the scene, Luke was shameful at having to nearly kill Ben.

Luke was in the process of recovering and only through Yoda appearing as a Force Ghost, could he recover back to his true self. Luke's characterisation at the final fight scene between him and Ben was true to his nature as a Jedi. He never fought back directly. He never harmed Ben. He uses Ben's anger and conflict to fuck him over and make a decisive win for the Resistance over the First Order.

Because that's how motherfucking Jedi do it.

2. There have been also numerous complaints about how this movie doesn't use enough of the EU. Yeah, no, screw that Darth Traya holocron crap. One theme of this movie is that you don't need bloodlines or need to be related to a super special somebody to be good in the Force. The next generation of force-users will be composed of people and the Force doesn't choose you based on who you were related to.

One thing I am glad for is that this movie fucks over the idea of dynasties and bloodlines in the Force and I'm glad for it. Literally, no one except hardcore EU fanboys will go 'REEEEEEEEEEE' at the idea that Shan Satale, Darth Revan or some other obscure EU character won't be in this movie.

Nitpicks
1. The kid was shown to be Force Sensitive. If you remember the scene correctly, you can spot him telkentically pulling the broom to himself.

2. If you're dissing puppet Yoda's look from the Original Trilogy, then, you must prefer the Prequel's take on Yoda far more than the old trilogy.

3. You use the word 'Deus Ex Machina' but don't really know how to use it correctly.

4. Star Wars has always been violent and gruesome, with the directors growing ever more creative on ways to decorate flesh with lightsabers.

5. Movies are a different type of medium than video games. In video games, there's that aspect of player control while in the movies, you can't tangibly interact with it.

Of course, a better analogy would be style over substance which I can gladly argue over.

1. Luke would not have flicked that lightsaber on in the first place. He gave Darth Vader, a man wholly on the dark side, multiple chances. He was ready to kill Ben in an instant. It's not Luke, nor is it Luke^2.
2. Yeah, the theme of the movie was pointless because it's the same theme the rest of the movies have. Aside from Luke, Leia, and Ben Solo, nobody in the entirety of Star Wars comes out of greatness. And as opposed to what you seem to believe, I think that this was the perfect opportunity to reintroduce some EU elements while simultaneously actually developing Rey's character.
[Edit] This is instead of the long line of Reys. The long line of Reys served absolutely no purpose in the long run, and they didn't develop her character. If you replaced them with something cool from the EU, then you could develop her character, have a purpose, and make EU fans happy.

1. This is Star Wars; the shot isn't clear or long enough to be sure that wasn't just how the broom worked.
2. No. I'm dissing the puppet Yoda that has a blue aura around him. The aura makes him look awful, unlike the ghost in ROTJ.
3. Deus Ex Machina. Super flying Leia. Amazing hole-sensing ice-foxes. Surprise BB-8 walker-piloting. Whatever term you use, it means stuff that shouldn't happen that did because plot.
4. Vibroswords are fine. I never complained about those. But what I did complain about was the target demographic of Star Wars; young children; and the fact that they just watched something that is very gruesome.
5. Yes.

 

[MsPolite]

1. Luke would not have flicked that lightsaber on in the first place. He gave Darth Vader, a man wholly on the dark side, multiple chances. He was ready to kill Ben in an instant. It's not Luke, nor is it Luke^2.
2. Yeah, the theme of the movie was pointless because it's the same theme the rest of the movies have. Aside from Luke, Leia, and Ben Solo, nobody in the entirety of Star Wars comes out of greatness. And as opposed to what you seem to believe, I think that this was the perfect opportunity to reintroduce some EU elements while simultaneously actually developing Rey's character.

1. This is Star Wars; the shot isn't clear or long enough to be sure that wasn't just how the broom worked.
2. No. I'm dissing the puppet Yoda that has a blue aura around him. The aura makes him look awful, unlike the ghost in ROTJ.
3. Deus Ex Machina. Super flying Leia. Amazing hole-sensing ice-foxes. Surprise BB-8 walker-piloting. Whatever term you use, it means stuff that shouldn't happen that did because plot.
4. Vibroswords are fine. I never complained about those. But what I did complain about was the target demographic of Star Wars; young children; and the fact that they just watched something that is very gruesome.
5. Yes.

lol ima be honest, when i saw reveiws for the movie after i watched i felt so alone, it was like i saw a completly differnt movie than everyone else. so glad i found someone who gets where im coming from x3

 

[RNDM]

ok first im no a super eu fangirl
2. if luke saved darth vader someone who was already evil, then y not ben who hasnt even commited a crime
3. Deus ex machina means hand of god and describes when some event out of no were saves the protagonist. there were alot of DEM's in this
4. the #1 rule in world building is BE CONSISTENT! and this movies takes all the rules of the older movies and throws it into a bonfire. Not any one could be force sensitive, not any could be a super power badass, and most improtantly if they wanted to show anyone can be great the should have made rey WORK FOR IT TO SHOW THAT WITH HARD WORK ANYONE COULD BE GREAT!.
5. . , u missed the point, a good looking movie, although fun, can still be empty, shallow and/or trash.

2.You cannot compare the two. Darth Vader and Kylo Ren had completely separate circumstances.

4.This doesn't make sense. They didn't want to show 'anyone can be great', they wanted to continue the story of Star Wars. While I do agree that Rey could be better, they're not using her as a symbol. They're using her as a character, someone who changes things, not represent them.

 

[Archdemon]

Honestly... The movie was just utter garbage. I didn't like it at all.

Spoiler

1. You know how The First Order wasn't as big in the force awakens and in the end they had the Star Killer base destroyed? You know that should've been a setback but no, they somehow managed to become all powerful, defeat the republic, and has now basically become the empire again. It's almost like the force awakens never happened. This is basically a redo that is horrible.

2. Destroyed Subplots from TFA. Yep all those cool plots J.J. Suggested at like Rey's parents and why she's so good at the force. It was this cool mystery that suddenly we are told that her parents are nobodies, pretty much making her a Mary Sue. Then we have Phasma and Snoke who could've been actually good villains but well they only appeared like ten minutes of screen time and are basically killed off. I bet there are so many more but those are from the top of my head.

3. Terrible writing: Yep, the writing was horrendous. I mean they took Hux who was supposed to be this serious and badass admiral of The First Order, and just made him into a fucking joke character, Literally. Many of the situations that happened could've been resolved differently and were very illogical, like vice admiral not telling Poe and everyone her plan. Like why? Why hold a plan like that a secret? They literally could have made the movie better by ignoring the casino bit and adding the thing to the main story.

4. Space Leia: Now I wouldn't mind this part of it wasn't for the fact that they don't explain how she uses the force nor is this incident ever spoken about again. If they had explained it like "Oh my brother taught me" or something along those lines I'd forgive it, but they don't.

5. Illogical space stuff: this goes in with technology and its use. Like how when the First Order is chasing the rebel fleet, I noticed that when they fired the occasional blasts from the ship that it had an arcing effect. Like how you fired a cannon yet they were in space and the blast was a laser so... It doesn't work that way. Then we have the light speed Kamikaze while I'll admit was cool, it's still illogical. The reason for it is because, if this happened why has nobody ever thought if it before, and also it can't actually work. The reason why is because it goes into the fourth Dimension to travel from Point A-B so they're not exactly traveling on the same dimension (This point may be invalid because I'm not exactly sure I'm right, if I'm wrong I will admit so.) Let's talk about them Bombers at the beginning! You can't drop bombs in space because there is no gravity, and they literally fall as if there was gravity. Also there is no protection from sucking the air out when the Baydoors open, so when the last bomber goes over the dreadnought and the chick is at the bottom near the Baydoors which are open, she doesn't die even though she should be dead.

There are just so many things wrong with this movie, in my honest opinion if you haven't watched it yet please don't. It's not worth it at all.