The implications of the Essence Flow charm[2nd E]

[Solfi]

It doesn't say "established OR permanent". It says "established effects OF ongoing or permanent".


Essence flow is permanent, yes... but what does Essence flow do? It allows you to *activate* the *Excellencies*... which are not (permanent I mean). You don't go around with bonuses to your dice pools at all time. They have to be *activated* for each roll. They are not *established* before the time of casting. The ability to use the excellencies outside of normal Charm rules is permanent. The actual usage, is not.

 

[Gtroc]

It doesn't say "established OR permanent". It says "established effects OF ongoing or permanent".

wich can be interperetted as either:


"established effects of ongoing charms, or established effects of permanent charms"


or


"established effects of ongoing charms, or permanent charms"


I am not really making a statement one way or the other, just pointing out haw that line can be interpretted.


(how the hell is interpretted spelled any way?)

 

[Solfi]

Actually, the second interpretation would be grammatically incorrect. I suppose that *could* be how they meant it. But if it was, they have constructed the sentence incorrectly.

 

[Silence In Daylight]

(how the hell is interpretted spelled any way?)

 'Interpreted.'

 

[Gtroc]

Actually, the second interpretation would be grammatically incorrect. I suppose that *could* be how they meant it. But if it was, they have constructed the sentence incorrectly.

I am not claiming it is following the rules of proper grammar. I mearly claimed that it was a possible interpretation. I did not express an opinion on the specific problem. I merely pointed out a possible snarl in the debate. I mean, is isn't as if White Wolf is the pinnacle of grammer, or even proper editing.

'Interpreted.'

thank you.

 

[Solfi]

I am not claiming it is following the rules of proper grammar. I mearly claimed that it was a possible interpretation. I did not express an opinion on the specific problem. I merely pointed out a possible snarl in the debate. I mean, is isn't as if White Wolf is the pinnacle of grammer, or even proper editing.

That is true, but "as it is written, I'm not right. But if you rewrite this sentence like so, *then* I'm right" is hardly a sound argument in a discussion about rules.


Still, in the end, play however the hell you want. I'll be interested to see what WW says about it, but I already know how I'll be using it anyway.

 

[Bodhisattva]

A need for errata already?   :lol:

 

[Persell]

But, the Essence Flow charm speficially overrides the standard permancy rule, flat out telling you that these effects "are the effects of a charm in all ways" except that they violate combo rules. This is a charm-specific exception to the standard permanent rule. This line has no other purpose.

Wrong. It nowhere in the charm text says flat out that what you think it does. nowhere.

Actually: "The effects are the effects of a Charm used by the character in all ways, save that they can be used with other Charms from the Ability without being placed in a Combo." It's right there at the end of the second paragraph in the charm write-up on page 187.


I usually go with the "it can run either way" argument, but not in this case. The text is pretty clear: you can't activate powerz when you're shaping sorcery, and adding dice as an innate power is banned, just like adding dice with a Charm. It doesn't matter that you can take advantage of the benefits of permanent charms while shaping sorcery, because woah hey, the effect you can take advantage of is that you can active Excellencies as an innate power... but they're reflexive, and voluntary reflexive actions are banned (aside from your anima power and that's it).


The duration, mote cost, and grammar of (A)EF are all beside the point, for the reasons Wordman brought up. If anyone disagrees with the arguments Wordman presented on the previous page, they just need to think a bit more clearly is all. And pay attention to the fact that the things Wordman quoted do actually exist.


Bah.

 

[Persell]

Rereading everything I have to admit that I was wrong.

 

[Persell]

Good on you. Takes a big person to be able to not only see past their own mistakes, but immediately front up to them. Especially on the internet where you can avoid ever taking responsibility for yourself. Respect.

 

[wordman]

Now that's settled, countdown to an errata stating just the opposite in 3... 2... 1...