Aren't you a ray of sunshine
.We are an insanely large community, getting people on the same page is often hard, but that doesn't mean we will stop trying
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News The Helpers of The Nation
- Thread starter The Dark Wizard
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Aren't you a ray of sunshine
.We are an insanely large community, getting people on the same page is often hard, but that doesn't mean we will stop trying
!.
Beckoncall
World-Weaver and servant to the most-holy PC
Step one, donate. Step two, investigate this seriously!
Oceo Frose
Apprentice Magician
Anyway, could anyone give me the link to the Discord Server? ^^;
welian
#BlackLivesMatter
I never did get a chance to be a fellow.
deer
sul sul
I'm actually really interested!
Captain Hesperus
Harbinger of the End Times and Apostle of Ghan
We have what's known as 'the benefits of hindsight'. Of course, if you are predicting a disaster even at this early state, then we obviously won't be getting an application from you and your participation in this thread is at an end, yes?
Captain Hesperus
JustNicole
Member
Aren't you a ray of sunshine
We are an insanely large community, getting people on the same page is often hard, but that doesn't mean we will stop trying
I mean, I'm not the only one left who remembers how badly that went. I just see no real open dialogue here with the community. "Oh hey, we did try this in the past. Yes, it didn't work. These are the clear reasons why it failed. Here's how we're going to fix that and ensure that it doesn't end like it did last time."
Instead, there's no mention of the previous system nor how badly it ended, and there wasn't for the Discord either. I'm not opposed to trying again after you fail, but I'm going to skeptical when it doesn't seem like steps are being made to address what caused the problem last time.
I'm predicting a disaster when we're not even talking about the last one or why it failed. If we aren't going to be open about the problems that the Fellowship and Helper system had in the past, what reason should there to be to believe this time will be any different, even with hindsight? There was zero mention to the old system nor how it failed from any staff members, which doesn't exactly inspire confidence as a member of the community that this time is going to turn out much better. The staff could have a great plan to make this work, and I'd be happy if it does, but I don't see any serious talk of that plan or learning from that hindsight on how we're changing the system this time around yet from the staff.
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Captain Hesperus
Harbinger of the End Times and Apostle of Ghan
We don't want to dredge up the past, simple as that. The Staff as a whole have been far more integrated from the site owner down to the newest Moderator. We feel that we can integrate the Helpers into this without the issues that we had previously. I'm not saying it'll be perfect from day 0, but I'm also not saying that we aren't willing to adapt based on the input of those we accept as Helpers.
Captain Hesperus
Captain Hesperus
JustNicole
Member
Guess I'll go stick my head in the sand then. That would seem to be about as effective. Since when did we try to censor the past? This site's past is not all rainbows and sunshine. There's been mistakes and screw-ups, and we should acknowledge them and learn from them.
If we can't have a little transparency and honest discussion on the mistakes of the past, we're only doomed to repeat them, and that's why this program is likely going to fail again is because of that very "let's not talk about the past" attitude.
Assailant
The SHSL Shadow Alchemy Stand Using Lab Member
Well, what if the problems ARE the helpers? I mean, if you're adapting the system to the input of the helpers, and the helpers ARE the problem, things just get worse and worse.
If you don't acknowlege the past, you're doomed to repeat it. An entire plan can't be based on "we'll cross that bridge when we get there," especially with so many people suddenly gaining very large says in the wellbeing of the community.
If you don't acknowlege the past, you're doomed to repeat it. An entire plan can't be based on "we'll cross that bridge when we get there," especially with so many people suddenly gaining very large says in the wellbeing of the community.
Captain Hesperus
Harbinger of the End Times and Apostle of Ghan
If you feel so strongly about this issue, then I invite you to post your concerns in Admin Contact where they can be properly addressed. It isn't your place to bring up the problems of the previous Helper system, and certainly not here. Now, if you have no interest in joining the Helpers, your participation in this thread is no longer necessary.
Captain Hesperus
Captain Hesperus
Not sure how they are gaining large says in the community. They are regular users who get to help out staff with the site they love, they aren't staff.
The J
I'm trying, damn it
Why on earth not? This is a thread about the new helpers system that you're planning to put in place, and Nicole is asking some very relevant questions that would affect how this new one plays out.
Meredith
of Fiendish Intent
Well, the helper system went down at least partially because of a lack of responsibility that we are now addressing.
Seeing as the past, despite not being all 'sunshine and rainbows', has been taken into account it doesn't seem practical to discuss this in a thread that (overall) is meant to speak about something being changed and redone and to hype the community up because this has the potential to be awesome.
If it doesn't work, it won't last.
Just like discord - which has, this time, persisted past its trial date (at least for now) because of adaptions we've made since last time.
Y'all have been asked to bring this to admin contact and we would really appreciate you doing so - but ultimately, if you don't have faith in our efforts to make things work, you certainly have no obligation to participate!
Seeing as the past, despite not being all 'sunshine and rainbows', has been taken into account it doesn't seem practical to discuss this in a thread that (overall) is meant to speak about something being changed and redone and to hype the community up because this has the potential to be awesome.
If it doesn't work, it won't last.
Just like discord - which has, this time, persisted past its trial date (at least for now) because of adaptions we've made since last time.
Y'all have been asked to bring this to admin contact and we would really appreciate you doing so - but ultimately, if you don't have faith in our efforts to make things work, you certainly have no obligation to participate!
ApfelSeine
Murder by Numbers 🏳️🌈🖥️
I think the reason is that the purpose of this is to answer questions on the current helper system that we are putting in place, not the previous one. It's understandable to ask "How is this system different from the previous one?", or contact the admins with concerns through Admin Contact. But to say "The last system failed and this will too" is being needlessly negative. Captain Hesperus has addressed what the differences are (better communication, and experience to improve the system), and so to continue to be the voice of doom is getting off topic
The J
I'm trying, damn it
I think you may have missed the point here - if this becomes bad in one way or another, it won't only affect those who are helpers.Y'all have been asked to bring this to admin contact and we would really appreciate you doing so - but ultimately, if you don't have faith in our efforts to make things work, you certainly have no obligation to participate!
The crux of the questioning here is what will be different. Hesperus has indeed addressed the differences but has been exceedingly vague. There's nothing concrete, and we'd just like some transparency.I think the reason is that the purpose of this is to answer questions on the current helper system that we are putting in place, not the previous one. It's understandable to ask "How is this system different from the previous one?", or contact the admins with concerns through Admin Contact. But to say "The last system failed and this will too" is being needlessly negative. Captain Hesperus has addressed what the differences are (better communication, and experience to improve the system), and so to continue to be the voice of doom is getting off topic
Meredith
of Fiendish Intent
The helpers are to have very limited powers anyhow.
Newsletters and contests are unlikely to harm anybody at all if they 'become bad' - this is just a way for exceptional users to help the staff do extra things!
We're keeping the housekeeping and moderating and things that can harm accounts to ourselves.
Giyari
Magical_Girl.exe
So, how will it function? And how will the staff ensure helpers contribute? And, how will the staff determine which helpers are held up by IRL issues temporarily and not using the title as a status symbol, as to avoid demotion and warning points by accident?
Cause if I remember last time, the helpers all kind of just... stopped doing things, and helped no one, then they were scrapped.
Lemon Boy
~Brilliantly Bitter~
So what's the actual plan for this so It just doesn't fail like last time?
I appreciate the hell out of you guys and your efforts, but being given incredibly vague answers isn't at all very inspiring or very faith inducing.
The lack of responsibility being addressed is great, but what else?
Elitism is very easily bred in initiatives such as this because It's already pretty easy to just help out users normally, but getting the opportunity to get a shiny new title can be more appealing to others than actually helping out.
I appreciate the hell out of you guys and your efforts, but being given incredibly vague answers isn't at all very inspiring or very faith inducing.
The lack of responsibility being addressed is great, but what else?
Elitism is very easily bred in initiatives such as this because It's already pretty easy to just help out users normally, but getting the opportunity to get a shiny new title can be more appealing to others than actually helping out.
The J
I'm trying, damn it
There can still be problems. If I remember correctly, the helpers were at times elitist and all the bother that follows from that, just as an example. How will you combat that?The helpers are to have very limited powers anyhow.
Newsletters and contests are unlikely to harm anybody at all if they 'become bad' - this is just a way for exceptional users to help the staff do extra things!
We're keeping the housekeeping and moderating and things that can harm accounts to ourselves.
Meredith
of Fiendish Intent
Elitism is not acceptable of any staff ranking; it will not be acceptable of the helpers, and of course our negative environment rules apply to all users.
Warnings to helpers and staff are grounds for dismissal, so as you can imagine, helpers that break rules will not hang around very long.
The J
I'm trying, damn it
Would that not have been supposed to happen last time? I know it sounds like I'm just trying to bring up bad memories with that question, but I want to see how this time will be different and hopefully better. I just want to know that the very best is being done for this site I love.
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