The Economics of Hell

[Flagg]

What do you suppose the currency is in Malfeas, assuming they have one?


I'd be inclined to think it's similar to Yu-Shan's use of Quintessence/Ambrosia, but I'm not sure that the Yozi can receive Essence from prayer.


What do you guys think?


-S

 

[Jakk Bey]

Damned souls. Lots and lots of damned souls. And the services of someone else's demons--because sometimes you just want someone else to play fetch and carry, rather than rely on extensions of your own will...

 

[Flagg]

Damned souls. Lots and lots of damned souls.

Since when? This isn't some kind of Christian hell, its Yozi-land. I don't remember reading anything about souls being damned, much less going to Malfeas.


-S

 

[Zophim]

I don't see a currency neccessary as it would probably evolve into a caste system where the bigger guy always get what he wants.

 

[Flagg]

I don't see a currency neccessary as it would probably evolve into a caste system where the bigger guy always get what he wants.

Perhaps... but why wouldn't it work the same way in Yu-Shan then? And what about trade amongst equals?


-S

 

[Jakk Bey]

I thought that was the whole point of sending demons out. Getting folks to sign away their chances at reincarnation as free agents, and into the service of the Yozi. Well, it's part of it--it's a nice way to use the "servitude" clause of their imprisonment.


Yeah, I've got three cults down the river there. They'll kick you back some sacrifices and work on that little problem you've got with that Lunar.


--That's swell. The sacrifices will scare the boogum out of the locals. Consider that whole Threshold incident that I bailed you out on with my Blood Apes forgetten.


I'm not sure that I like the idea of Yozi trading back and forth with anything like Ambrosia. Favors and use of servants who don't have a lot free will, that seems better than some kind of Hell Arbitrage house...


Deathlords profiting from death, I can see sacrifices as directly benifiting them, but not the Yozi so much, unless you count the sacrifice of free will or services. Yozi are about corruption, so the more folks they can get their whispers into, the better.

 

[Flagg]

I thought that was the whole point of sending demons out. Getting folks to sign away their chances at reincarnation as free agents' date=' and into the service of the Yozi. [/quote']
Did you read that somewhere, or are you just making it up?


-S

 

[Zophim]

Perhaps... but why wouldn't it work the same way in Yu-Shan then? And what about trade amongst equals?
-S

When you get to the higher levels in Yu-Shan doesn't it really work that way as those that have power have so much that they really don't want anything. What could the Unconquered Sun want that he couldn't just make himself? Upper souls have tons of rank and file first circle to get what they need from and i can see first circle fighting with each other all the time for resources.

 

[riven5]

There is a barter system in place in Malfeas, specifically bartering items of some mystic potency, such as wards against Adorjan.  However, as far as Quintessence and Ambrosia goes, I can't help but assume the Yozis cannot be utterly deprived of such things.  After all, Kimberry sent her favored Infernal Exalt into Creation (and continues to do so) so as to teach the Lintha how to properly worship her.  After they began doing so, Dukantha began showering the Lintha with gifts from their imprisoned god.


Perhaps it is because Kimberry is an arrogant bitch who refuses to pay attention to anyone who does not worship her appropriately...or perhaps it is because she derives some manner of "wealth" from it.  Either seems possible to me, though I'm just speculating.

 

[Flagg]

What could the Unconquered Sun want that he couldn't just make himself?

Why does Bill Gates feel the need to keep making money?


Whether the Unconquered Sun needs the "money" or not, he still taxes the shit out of everyone in Heaven. There's still a currency-based economy in place. I don't see any reason why Malfeas wouldn't have a similar system. Fuck, I mean, the Primordials probably invented the concept of money in the first place.


-S

 

[memesis]

This is wildly non-canon, but fuck, who cares about that.  There's another "musings about Malfeas" thread over there, regarding demon's fates, and we have this one, so...


Let's say that the economy of Malfeas was based on souls, and that the reason for that was that souls carry some measure of destiny with them - they allow demons, at least for a short time, to stretch (if not YET break) the bonds that hold them.  Demons are then sent out to collect souls and bring them back, either turning them over to their masters, or to use them in accomplishing future goals within Creation.


Eventually these may probably reach the Ebon Dragon, who is most interested in escaping his prison.  Some will go elsewhere, because being able to mess with the hold the Exalted have on the Yozis and their minions is a very useful thing.  A Second Circle demon breaking loose on poor surprised Mnemon, for example, may be something a lot of people are saving up for eagerly.


Frequently-Asked Questions/Comments:


"This is stupid" - Stupid is an opinion, go away or be constructive.


"How do demons collect souls?" - By making bargains with mortal sorcerers, or by finding victims they can work on.  Sorcerers will usually have much better destinies and often can't be trivially killed/eaten/sucked-down, which is why demons make bargains at all.


"How do souls have destinies?" - The way they did before.  The process demons use to extract them does not sever the souls from the weave of fate, which is why they just don't hang around dark alleys and catch souls as they depart.


"How do they extract the souls?" - it's probably painful and arcane.  Leave it off-camera unless you want to scare your players.

 

[Flagg]

I don't like the idea of demons being corrupters who seek to harvest human souls for their masters. It's too much of a Christian concept. I'm saturated by Christian culture. It bores me. I play Exalted to escape the mundane world, not to revel in it. That's my personal opinion and preference, of course, but I also don't see anything in print that supports such a view.


-S

 

[memesis]

I don't like the idea of demons being corrupters who seek to harvest human souls for their masters. It's too much of a Christian concept. I'm saturated by Christian culture. It bores me. I play Exalted to escape the mundane world, not to revel in it. That's my personal opinion and preference, of course, but I also don't see anything in print that supports such a view.
-S

I guess you haven't read Book of Three Circles, which has no less than a dozen spells based more or less directly on Old Testament miracles

 

[Joseph]

What do you suppose the currency is in Malfeas, assuming they have one?
I'd be inclined to think it's similar to Yu-Shan's use of Quintessence/Ambrosia, but I'm not sure that the Yozi can receive Essence from prayer.


What do you guys think?


-S

The closest thing you're likely to find to currency in Malfeas is slaves (generally being Demons of the First Circle) and favors (with unspecified favors of a given magnitude being more valuable than specified favors of that magnitude).

 

[Flagg]

I guess you haven't read Book of Three Circles, which has no less than a dozen spells based more or less directly on Old Testament miracles

I have. Doesn't mean I like them particularly. Same with the <strike>Shroud of Turin</strike> -- I mean, Mantle of Brigid. Lame.


-S

 

[Jakk Bey]

By 'damned' I don't mean that the souls go to the Yozi--though tainted for a long, long time by their association may make their next few incarnations 'interesting'--but folks who are then bound to the Yozi and their servants, without free will, and in their service.


I kind of like the idea of souls going to a Hell--even if it's the Chinese bureacratic version of hammering out the sin and punishment--in a game, but in Exalted, Hell doesn't exist yet. The Creation and the rest haven't gotten there yet, and the Yozi haven't restructured the deal yet. That comes later, in my mind. So, in the current setting, they just get servants, bound and shaped by their will, as vessels and slaves.


So, the Yozi trade servants. Services. Acts of ill will that advance their goals, or fit their whims.  Gods need worship, but do the Primordials?  Do the Primordials really need a power source?


Autocthon is outside, someplace that NO ONE is supposed to be. It has its own worries, but the Yozi live in each other, in a place that is designed especially for them, to contain their power. The Gods were designed by the Primordials and need a little juice, but I don't see the Primordials needing the worship.  It's nice, it boosts their egos, it makes them feel good, but its like frosting. Frosting is nice, but you don't live on frosting...

 

[8 Drunken Gods]

What do you suppose the currency is in Malfeas, assuming they have one?
-S

Its all about dancing.  Whether 1 circle courtesans are teaching one another the newest style and steps, or 3rd Circle artists trading their latest prize protege, dancing HAS TO BE the money of Malfeas.


....sike.

 

[Master of Malfeasance]

If souls are currency and you can't break a soul down into smaller units, why not forge the soul into a sheet of Soulsteel and mint coins of varying denominations and give them a rough equivalent to money in creation?


My players were in Skullstone most recently, and I really wanted to bring out the flavor of being stuck for a few weeks in a shadowland that didn't really mind guests.  Economic recessions aside, my players were quick to gamble in the pub and trade with the local merchants for gear made of Soulsteel.  I made sure they got a good look at how Soulsteel was made and the players had a great time combing the city for a smith who only used the souls of murderers and rapists (wasn't that hard considering the descriptions used in most of the sourcebooks) and they paid a massive amount of money to upgrade their gear.  When the smith asked them to do a job for him, he paid them in Soul Tokens.  


Soul Tokens, he explained, were the money of the damned.  I invoked my "Thousandfold Excrement Blast" charm and pulled the following economic system out of my high school education:


66 Soul tokens = 1 Damned Soul


66 Damned Souls = 1 Family


3-6 Dinars = 1 Soul Token


Now my players are fantastically wealthy -- as long as they're in a Shadowland.  My players have since found out the hard way that attempting to pass off a piece of someone's soul to any reputable merchant is a death sentence waiting to happen.  I have also decided that Mask of Winters has a collection of Soul Tokens from each shadowland, as well as each undead kingdom in the underworld as each mints their own and they are all roughly compatible.


My players have to import colon to keep up with the amount of ass I kick

 

[Master of Malfeasance]

As an aside, the above system was invented not because 6 is the "number of the beast", nor because I am a huge Iron Maiden fan, but because the ancient Babylonian system was based on 6's and it felt like it fit into the same paradigm as the madman who wrote the money system in M&C and made my life a living hell for me because of my capitalist pig players.