The Death Penalty: Your Thoughts?

Ember Spark

Ember Spark

Sparky AKA Flint
Okay. I wanted to post this to see what everyone's view about this is.


Capital punishment or the death penalty is a legal process whereby a person is put to death by the state as a punishment for a crime. The judicial decree that someone be punished in this manner is a death sentence, while the actual process of killing the person is an execution. Crimes that can result in a death penalty are known as capital crimes or capital offences.


VVV CAPITAL CRIMES VVV


Federal Offenses

  • At the federal level, all crimes punished by death penalty include murder in combination with other offenses, such as the smuggling of aliens; drug-related shootings; destruction of aircraft, vehicles or facilities; civil rights offenses; transportation of explosives, destruction of government property or destruction of property related to foreign or interstate commerce; mailing of injurious articles with intent to kill; and offenses against maritime navigation or maritime fixed platforms. Offenses like bank-robbery, torture, racketeering, wrecking a train, carjacking, rape or child molestation, sexual exploitation of children, use of weapons of mass destruction and aircraft hijacking are also included in the death penalty federal laws.


Other Federal Offenses

  • Federal laws provide for death penalty for the murder of law enforcement officials or retaliatory murder of their immediate family members; murder of an executive official, a Supreme Court justice, a witness, victim or informant; first-degree murder and genocide; murder of a federal, state or local law enforcement official aiding in a federal investigation; murder of a U.S. official in a foreign country; and assassination or kidnapping resulting in the death of the president or vice-president. Treason, terrorism and espionage are also added to the list of crimes punishable by death.


State Laws

  • The most recent data available with the Bureau of Justice Statistics of the U.S. Department of Justice are for capital punishment laws existing in 2008; at present, New Mexico (2009) and Illinois (2011) should be excepted from these statistics, as having abolished death penalty to this date. State laws vary from state to state and include several types of murder such as capital murder, aggravated murder and first-degree murder. They constitute the only capital punishment offenses in some states; in others, they are accompanied by up to 16 aggravating factors or circumstances and/or by other criminal offenses, depending on the state.


Other State Offenses

  • Under the 2008 state laws released by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, other offenses in combination with murder include sabotage, train wrecking causing death, treason, perjury causing execution of an innocent person, fatal assault by a prisoner serving a life sentence, felony murder, capital drug trafficking, capital sexual battery, aircraft hijacking, perjury resulting in death, killing of a law enforcement officer, murder for hire, murder by an inmate while serving a sentence of life without parole, sex crimes against a child under 14 or under 16 (varies with state), arson, robbery, escape and resisting arrest. First-degree kidnapping resulting in death and murder committed in the course of sexual assault, rape, kidnapping or drug-related crimes are also capital punishment crimes.
 
Death Penalty ? Vhy not Surgery Penalty.. vizout.. Anesthesia :3


Well here are my thoughts. No matter how bad a person commits his crimes, they still do not deserve a death penalty. It is just wrong, and I'm not talking about " We don't own our lives but God owns it " stuff. What I'm saying is, we do not have the right to kill others even though they did the same. We can't help a person's state of mind if he has gone crazy or insane. But we can make them stop. Death Penalty is just like murder, killing someone.
 
All I am saying is, death penalty is murder. It's the killing of another person. And the government says murder is wrong? Murdering someone... Because they.. Murdered someone? (Just one example.) Just my thoughts, all though I do believe in life sentences.
 
Although that is true @CloudyDay I believe that if someone murders a person they should be put to death. We should not sit here and pay for them to live in a prison and get fed 3 meals a day and have a bed to sleep on and a roof over their heads.
 
Exactly. Ember, you'll find my thoughts on this subject in that other thread.


One small addition. In the matter of murder for hire. I feel the person who contracts a murder - pays a contract killer - should also suffer the same penalty .... death.
 
I agree Mit


I also think that if someone is protecting them self from someone who is trying to hurt them, and they end up killing the person that is trying to hurt them by protecting themselves, I think they should not be put to death or in jail.
 
Self defense, or defense of another ... not murder. Sadly, this can be hard to prove if one is too efficient in how they defend themselves.


Conversely, one must never abuse self defense a means to justify killing another. If a non lethal means is available it should be used - however one might wish otherwise. For example, if you manage to blow a hole on an assailant's foot and can get away, then you don't go and empty the gun into him ... reload and shoot several more times. That is still murder.
 

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Personally, i believe the death penalty is fine depending on the crime. The way it is set up in law, however, is a bit strange. A small bank robbery can be punished by death? I can understand mass murder, hijacking government weapons, etc, but a robber is a bit too harsh. The laws should be constrained a bit more, as it's rather stupid to just murder someone when they didn't do something as bad as something, for example, molesting children or murdering many. Overall death penalty is fine as long as it's deserved. Torture however... That's a different story :) Good luck on finding information!


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The reasoning in favor of a death penalty is backward and teeters close to a logical fallacy.


To me it is about showing the criminal, the local community and thr nation that the state is better than the criminals. The state must be morally superior to the criminals it imprisons. If they're not, they are, logically, criminals themselves.


This is 1+1=2 level logic. If you deem act A a crime then commiting it yourself is still a crime. The death penalty logically demands that any one person who carries out the swntence is guilty of the same fact and should be put to death also. Obviously this is not feasible. There are only two ways out of the paradox, avoiding it alltogether by abandoning the backward reasoning that started it or, and this is the current policy, allowing a loophole to exist and suspending the law for those who put others to death in the name of that very same law.


The universal declaration of the human rights grants the right to live. The US directly violates this law (even though it didn't sign the universal declaration of the human rights).


In the words of Charles Dickens: "Americans can't bear to be told their faults."


Other countries can learn from America, I have no doubt about that, but on this matter the US should look to the overwhelming majority of other developed countries and adapt their stance on the death penalty. It is wicked to kill another human being. Particularly if you've come to realize that people only live once. Thers no afterlife or redemption. This is it.
 
Ok so my thoughts kind of start off a little off focus but bear with me I bring it back to the main subject.


Prisons are where keep people that arent crazy enough for insane asylums. A lot of people would think of the worst person in a prison (someone on death row?) is worse than the craziest person in an insane asylum. You ask someone if they'd put a crazy person to death, most would quickly say no. Its because they dont know what they are doing right? Crazy people dont process their environment in a healthy manner. Why is a prison inmate different? I would think people would assert that someone who knowingly commits a crime is more damaged than someone who just thought they were removing the head from a stuffed animal rather than a person. With the "crazy" one all you have to do is teach them to stop seeing people as stuffed animals, with the inmate you have to reprogram their conscience. At most I would expect people to argue on this to the point of not seeing any difference between the two. To me they are all the same varying degree of messed up, therefore, all deserving of rehabilitation.


That backstory on my opinion having been explained, because of the current state of our laws governing the rights of offenders that is in place, I say kill the worst offenders all across the board. Allowing someone that messed up to live without giving them treatment is just like allowing a lame horse to try and gallop. Its inhumane. I believe our personalities are a product of our environments so if anything we should kill all the people that made that person who they are.


If, however, we were to make vast changes to our laws I would say we have no right to take the lives of anyone. If anything from the greatest tragedies comes the greatest character, it should be our duty to spare no expense in healing these people.


I realize this is all pretty general but I hope it conveys a little bit of what i had in my head.


This train of thought brought to you by Psycho-Pass
 
If prisoners didn't get such good treatment for murder and stuff, then I would find it wrong. But unfortunately, the guy who murders a kid goes to jail for his life, workouts, yard time, even can get paid! Free healthcare, etc.... I just don't think they deserve it. Then again, if they aren't afraid of death or don't care then they should be put in at least not comfortable conditions.
 
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Macaberz said:
The reasoning in favor of a death penalty is backward and teeters close to a logical fallacy.
The universal declaration of the human rights grants the right to live. The US directly violates this law (even though it didn't sign the universal declaration of the human rights).


Other countries can learn from America, I have no doubt about that, but on this matter the US should look to the overwhelming majority of other developed countries and adapt their stance on the death penalty. It is wicked to kill another human being. Particularly if you've come to realize that people only live once. Thers no afterlife or redemption. This is it.
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While the initial idea of the death penalty may seem backwards, is the continuation of someone who has murdered a bigger paradox? Why keep the agent of demise alive while the innocent suffer? It would be as if you let every Nazi go and "rehibilitated" what you could. It's sad, but sometimes people have to be let go for the better of others. If he had been captured, would you honestly "rehabilitate" Hitler? If you had found Bin Laden, would you have spoken logically with him? Sometimes there are people that need to go. You can use a mental illness to justify murder, but if the illness cannot be remedied and the killer feels no remorse, then is there really any rehabilitation? It is a right to live, but it should also be a right to seek justice. Is death the only answer? No, but sometimes it is the right one.


Also, there is a fallacy in your assumption of no afterlife.
 
The death penalty is too flawed and humanizing. By giving someone the death penalty, you expect that they are actually afraid of death. A majority of murderers and other felons already display sociopathic tendencies, so they don't think the way a "normal" human being thinks. They aren't being punished, they are receiving a ticket of freedom from responsibility for their actions. Prison time is no better. Feed them and shelter them? Give them time to live out fulfilling (albeit restricted) lives without actually punishing them? Ridiculous.


People who have chosen to act like beasts should be made to live as beast. Set aside a bit of land in the wild, stick them in with nothing but their underwear. Instead of killing for pleasure or profit, they will for survival, to adapt and mature, to respect life and what they had before they chose to live like beasts. If they can't do these things, they will die as they lived. Cheap, effective, and more humane than simply killing them. Deny them the privileges that they once enjoyed, in an environment they aren't used to.


My thought process may be harsh and flawed on this topic, not sure, and there are probably better ways to do things, but I personally believe that imprisonment and the death penalty are even more flawed. Humans who murder other humans have given up their right to live AS humans.
 
CloudyDay said:
All I am saying is, death penalty is murder. It's the killing of another person. And the government says murder is wrong? Murdering someone... Because they.. Murdered someone? (Just one example.) Just my thoughts, all though I do believe in life sentences.
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It's not murder, it's justice. Quite frankly, if ever I was accused and found guilty of a crime, I would opt for the death penalty any day. I'd much rather die than live life in prison. Imagine the suffering in prison, the insanity and the everlasting boredom. No change, no life. 


Makira said:
Death Penalty ? Vhy not Surgery Penalty.. vizout.. Anesthesia :3
Well here are my thoughts. No matter how bad a person commits his crimes, they still do not deserve a death penalty. It is just wrong, and I'm not talking about " We don't own our lives but God owns it " stuff. What I'm saying is, we do not have the right to kill others even though they did the same. We can't help a person's state of mind if he has gone crazy or insane. But we can make them stop. Death Penalty is just like murder, killing someone.
Click to expand...
It's not wrong, if anything it's more just. Quite frankly, if ever I was accused and found guilty of a crime, I would opt for the death penalty any day. I'd much rather die than live life in prison. Imagine the suffering in prison, the insanity and the everlasting boredom. No change, no life.
 
[QUOTE="The Cobalt Killer]It's not murder, it's justice. Quite frankly, if ever I was accused and found guilty of a crime, I would opt for the death penalty any day. I'd much rather die than live life in prison. Imagine the suffering in prison, the insanity and the everlasting boredom. No change, no life.

[/QUOTE]
This is part of why I feel like the death penalty is flawed. So a killer who obviously shows no remorse for killing or for his own life is executed? How does that come out has justice? In the thousands of years where humanity has had the chance to develop a satisfactory punishment system, but instead, they just give the criminals what they want. It's an easy way out and there is no satisfaction left to the families who were scarred. That's not justice. That just tells me the people in charge are too lazy to come up with a better solution.


Edit: Put it this way, if you were arrested, tried, and convicted in a case severe enough to call for the death penalty, why should anyone care what you want? You rescinded your right to want things your way when you committed the act, so the criminal system should have not yield to your desires.
 
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Saturnity said:
This is part of why I feel like the death penalty is flawed. So a killer who obviously shows no remorse for killing or for his own life is executed? How does that come out has justice? In the thousands of years where humanity has had the chance to develop a satisfactory punishment system, but instead, they just give the criminals what they want. It's an easy way out and there is no satisfaction left to the families who were scarred. That's not justice. That just tells me the people in charge are too lazy to come up with a better solution.
Edit: Put it this way, if you were arrested, tried, and convicted in a case severe enough to call for the death penalty, why should anyone care what you want? You rescinded your right to want things your way when you committed the act, so the criminal system should have not yield to your desires.
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No, no. Put it this way; in a murder case, it is decided that the culprit should be hanged. The deceased's family want revenge, and the culprit's death. Justice for them, and peace of mind. The culprit doesn't get a life to come but doesn't get driven to insanity. Justice, even if he was a murderer.


And who said anything about no remorse?
 
Simply killing the culprit doesn't do anything for the family. They are still left bitter and helpless knowing their loved one who died will never come back. No, executing a killer is too humanizing. It may be brutal, but I feel they should be stripped of their humanity in some way, since they chose to act inhuman. Death is too easy, imprisonment is too easy. The accused should be made to suffer, not given a free ticket out. Throw them into nature, force them to suffer the elements away from society, with no connection to it. Psychological punishment is more effective than anything they already have.


And who cares if the convicted is driven insane? Why should anyone HAVE to care about that? Whatever the criminal would endure in prison, the family of their victim has already endured tenfold. That family will be forever destroyed, regardless of whether the perpetrator is imprisoned or executed, and even if it does provide some satisfaction, the death penalty cannot mend shattered lives.


Don't get me wrong though. I'm not saying the convicted shouldn't die for their crimes. What I'm getting at is that they shouldn't be allowed to die on their terms, and they should be made to suffer and feel the consequences of their actions before they do die.


And there is no such thing as peace of mind when your son, daughter, wife, or husband has been killed. Nothing can fill that emptiness.
 
Saturnity said:
Simply killing the culprit doesn't do anything for the family. They are still left bitter and helpless knowing their loved one who died will never come back. No, executing a killer is too humanizing. It may be brutal, but I feel they should be stripped of their humanity in some way, since they chose to act inhuman. Death is too easy, imprisonment is too easy. The accused should be made to suffer, not given a free ticket out. Throw them into nature, force them to suffer the elements away from society, with no connection to it. Psychological punishment is more effective than anything they already have.
And who cares if the convicted is driven insane? Why should anyone HAVE to care about that? Whatever the criminal would endure in prison, the family of their victim has already endured tenfold. That family will be forever destroyed, regardless of whether the perpetrator is imprisoned or executed, and even if it does provide some satisfaction, the death penalty cannot mend shattered lives.


Don't get me wrong though. I'm not saying the convicted shouldn't die for their crimes. What I'm getting at is that they shouldn't be allowed to die on their terms, and they should be made to suffer and feel the consequences of their actions before they do die.


And there is no such thing as peace of mind when your son, daughter, wife, or husband has been killed. Nothing can fill that emptiness.
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What are you a psycho?!


Sure maybe the criminal should suffer but imprisonment is more than enough to drive people insane. What you're saying could easily get you charged. That's the stuff of corruption. And what of the family of the culprit? They suffer loss too. The family of the victim lose them to a murder. Gruesome, inhumane. But then the family of the culprit lose them to the 'elements'. More gruesome, less humane.


At least with the death penalty, it's the end of the road for the killer. Done, finished.
 
[QUOTE="The Cobalt Killer]What are you a psycho?!
Sure maybe the criminal should suffer but imprisonment is more than enough to drive people insane. What you're saying could easily get you charged. That's the stuff of corruption. And what of the family of the culprit? They suffer loss too. The family of the victim lose them to a murder. Gruesome, inhumane. But then the family of the culprit lose them to the 'elements'. More gruesome, less humane.


At least with the death penalty, it's the end of the road for the killer. Done, finished.

[/QUOTE]
I'm not insulting you, so I would appreciate if you didnt insult me.


No, corruption is giving a killer a chance at a plea deal when he/she doesn't deserve it, letting them reduce their sentence. Corruption is being able to buy a felon out of prison so they don't even have to serve their sentence, or getting out on "good behavior". No amount of good behavior can replace the lost life of a loved one.


People who murder, rape, and torture others are not human. I refuse to acknowledge them as such. They gave up their life as human beings when they enacted their crimes.


Inhumane? The entire justice system is inhumane. No, humane is putting them in the wild to fend for themselves. There they only have one of two choices. Survive or die. Their remaining life will all hinge upon the decisions they make. They had the chance to live in society as normal human beings and they destroyed it.


And as for family of the criminal, I dont know about anyone else, but if I had a sibling or other relative that committed murder and that was proven beyond resonable doubt, I would disown them. They didnt care enough about me and the rest of my family and acted upon selfish desires and impulses, and ruined the lives of other people? Tell me why I should pity them? Simply because they are my FAMILY? Sure there will a part of me that cares for them, I am not heartless, but I would believe no less that they deserve any sympathy for their actions.


With my idea, at least the convicted might eventually be able to reflect acknowledge their wrongdoings. And find strength in overcoming a difficult situation. Inhumane... there are people all over the world that live off the land, and they're more respectable than a lot of people in this country.
 
Saturnity said:
I'm not insulting you, so I would appreciate if you didnt insult me.
No, corruption is giving a killer a chance at a plea deal when he/she doesn't deserve it, letting them reduce their sentence. Corruption is being able to buy a felon out of prison so they don't even have to serve their sentence, or getting out on "good behavior". No amount of good behavior can replace the lost life of a loved one.


People who murder, rape, and torture others are not human. I refuse to acknowledge them as such. They gave up their life as human beings when they enacted their crimes.


Inhumane? The entire justice system is inhumane. No, humane is putting them in the wild to fend for themselves. There they only have one of two choices. Survive or die. Their remaining life will all hinge upon the decisions they make. They had the chance to live in society as normal human beings and they destroyed it.


And as for family of the criminal, I dont know about anyone else, but if I had a sibling or other relative that committed murder and that was proven beyond resonable doubt, I would disown them. They didnt care enough about me and the rest of my family and acted upon selfish desires and impulses, and ruined the lives of other people? Tell me why I should pity them? Simply because they are my FAMILY? Sure there will a part of me that cares for them, I am not heartless, but I would believe no less that they deserve any sympathy for their actions.


With my idea, at least the convicted might eventually be able to reflect acknowledge their wrongdoings. And find strength in overcoming a difficult situation. Inhumane... there are people all over the world that live off the land, and they're more respectable than a lot of people in this country.
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Throw them out of society and base it on survive or die?!


In this day and age anyone can vanish, they could cross the border and find a new life. In a prison sentence, the guilty can "reflect/acknowledge their wrongdoings". Your idea means they could escape. Or worse, die. Without serving a life sentence, without reflection or remorse.


Of course there are "people all over the world that live off the land", and maybe they are more respectable than most, but that has nothing to do with capital punishment. If they had to survive by killing one another or becoming cannibals, would you cast these off as aliens as well. And anyway, it is mainly in LEDCs that you will find the death penalty and corrupt government.


Moreover, what if the killer did it by accident or under a condition, and got NGRI or a lower degree verdict. Are they now not human. Are mentally 'challenged' people who might commit a crime not human?
 
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