The 3rd Camp

[greasy golem gunk]

Cult of the illuminated describes 2 camps, one a very relgious Martial arts school, the other a more Warrior training camp in the desert, and leaves open a 3rd option.  


Each camp is supposed to focus on an aspect of the solars; Holy servants of the Unconqoured Sun, Warriors of the sun, and ____?


I was thinking about making a 3rd camp teach solars to be the middle step between mortals and the little gods, but I havn't thought of a "how" that I like so far.  Everything I come up with just seems as hazordous to the siderials work place as the bronze factions's Immaculate order.  


I was thinking of borrowing from Jade Empire (a really slick Bioware RPG on the Xbox that I absolutly recommend to anyone that plays exalted; they clearly stem from a lot of the same source material) and implementing another group of Spirit monks, utilizing ghost cesti (storytellers companion) and thamaturgy, but it doesn't sound right to me.  


Thoughts anyone?  Your own "3rd camp", ideas to make my idea work better?  Recipes for cookies?  mmm cookies.


-g3

 

[MOK]

The way I figure it, each of the two camps outlined were made around strong overlying theories of how a Solar Exalt could be made into the perfect Sidereal Approved Leader of Creatoin, independent of the other two theories.  Thus, your concept would have to hold weight on its own, not allowing for slack to be picked up by the other two camps/philosophies.


With that said, can you think of a mental mechanism taught within your camp that would turn a Solar into 'the perfect leader'?  Now off the top of my head, I don't have any ideas how your concept would work, but then, I don't know for sure what you have in mind.


As I understood them to work, the Tabernacle accomplished this by instilling a sense of moral obligation via showing how spiritually greater the Solars were.  


In turn, Kether Rock did this through instilling a sense of value in mortals through a perception of ownership, kinda.  Both are sorta hard to define.


Will your Solars maintain their ascended, but benevolent, position through:  Fear of reprocutions?  Regret for something?  Anticipation for reward?  Something else?  In the end, the mind of a Solar is potentially just as fallible as the mind of a mortal, and there has to be a common thought that makes a Solar want to be the leaders the Sidereals mold them into.  I'd venture to think that the honor of leadership as it's own reward doesn't quite hold enough weight to keep people in line.  


The problem of finding a viable philosophy is a bit of a doozy


I'll bet, however, that after you have a fleshed out this mental mechanism, everything else will fall into place on its own.


If this convoluted mess I've just typed even helps, I'll be amazed.  =op


Good luck.


MOK

 

[Flagg]

A school of Sorcery.


-S

 

[Joseph]

Diplomacy and leadership focused.

 

[The Scorp]

A school of Sorcery.
-S

I was thinking this as well.

 

[greasy golem gunk]

Or Leaders that supliment their diplomacy with sorcery?


Heh heh, future leaders of Creation club...  


DUnno.  Maybe I already had enough on my plate, and should just have a wandering gold faction teacher that's constantly getting his students hired out for side jobs.  "Good practice" he'll say.  


Thanks for the input, but I'm dropping the idea for now.  


-g3

 

[Andrew02]

Both schools already do all they can to teach sorcery to those who show the affinity and desire. The leader of the Gold Faction personally teaches Sorcery to a handful of the Solars.

 

[The Scorp]

Both schools already do all they can to teach sorcery to those who show the affinity and desire. The leader of the Gold Faction personally teaches Sorcery to a handful of the Solars.

Oh? Well then I change it to what Joe said.  Or some sort architecture/making things like artifacts...y'know Crafting.


Im purely going by caste affinity here.  Dawn for Warrior, Zenith for Holy Servant, Twilight for Sorcery or Crafting, Night for Espionage/Information, and Eclispe for Diplomacy.  


Im getting the book soon, so hopefully after reading it I can get a better idea about the camps.

 

[MOK]

I'm pretty sure thats not how it works.  The Sid's set up these camps neutral to caste, as evidence to the varying ability emphasis seen in both camps.  


For instance, theres a very heavy emphasis of survival and endurance at Kether Rock, the more martial school, while the Tabernacle has a comparatively huge emphasis on the Presence ability and a more occult slant as well.  In the end, Leadership is the sought after result of both schools.  Leadership was the entire point.  Some are better at it than others, mostly sub-divided through 'Calling', but through all of them, Leadership is the point of the whole exercise.


Bringing up craft gave me an idea though - a place that emphasized Craft, Lore, Bureaucracy, and Socialize could find a good niche.  They could be the more socially slanted city-keeper type of build.


Their training could take a similar form as Kether Rock's, with their granting of a personal crew of Tiger Warriors.  They are given to do with as the Solar sees fit.  However, Kether Rock students will be judged with how they use their assets, and are taught to value the mortals they are given.  


In a similar way, these civil lords could be tasked with the prosperity of a town or something like that, and allowed to do with them what he wants.  He could milk them for veneration and pampering and extravagant debauchery, or he could spend every ounce of his being on their safety, happiness, and productivity.  In this way the Solar creates something larger from his leadership, through their work.  The lessons are remembered through a sense of pride and ownership from the process of creation that he influences.


That might work.  Good for Zeniths, Twilights, and Eclipses.


One flaw I can think of, however, is that it leaves the Night Caste as the odd man out, since only one camp - Kether - allows him to really excel, rather than having two potent options.


Or maybe Night Castes could have good applicability here with a little more elaboration of leadership styles?


I dont know.  Thats an idea.


** PS, part of the idea of this camp is that it's not necesarially a 'camp' at all - the students, when done with early training and are ready for their tasks, are spread out, and would have to be checked by roaming sidereals and cultists.  Kinda interesting.  It reminds me of Isaac Asimov's Second Foundation.


**PPS, One piece you could concievably guide from was the description of that one Gold Faction Sidereal lady who used to be bronze faction, then went renegade, then joined gold just for the sake of perspective.  I think they mentioned something about her and some other sidereal intent on making a camp?  If that's the case, she could definately be tapped for a bonafide agenda.  With her, you could make some kind of RENEGADE camp!  It's ripe with possibility!

 

[Flagg]

One flaw I can think of, however, is that it leaves the Night Caste as the odd man out, since only one camp - Kether - allows him to really excel, rather than having two potent options.

Maybe there's another camp, just for the Night Caste, that's so well hidden, even the WW authors don't know about it.


-S

 

[MOK]

lol

 

[greasy golem gunk]

One flaw I can think of, however, is that it leaves the Night Caste as the odd man out, since only one camp - Kether - allows him to really excel, rather than having two potent options.

Maybe there's another camp, just for the Night Caste, that's so well hidden, even the WW authors don't know about it.


-S

They're obviously in league with an Adamant-centered alchemical outpost.  The secret city has a secret connection to creation, you see.  


Project: Glass houses perhaps?


-g3

 

[The Scorp]

Has anyone thought where this third (or fourth) camp would be?


I was thinking Rathas.

 

[Andrew02]

Has anyone thought where this third (or fourth) camp would be?

I think the West has some opportunities. Find a nice little island with a decent patch of fertile land and you'd be set.

I was thinking Rathas.

Why so?


Rathess seems like a poor choice to me, given the proximity of an imperial garrison (or, if I am misremembering whether there is a garrison nearby, a city with Realm agents who can and will alert the Wyld Hunt to any suspicious people); the Nameless Lair of Ma-Ha-Suchi; the current occupation by Fair Folk, Filial Wisdom, the feral Dragon Kings, the strange maggot gods beneath Rathess. That's a lot of shit to deal with. Rathess may be remote and have significance to the Solars, but it's stomping grounds for all kinds of bad things.

 

[wordman]

Thoughts anyone?  Your own "3rd camp"' date=' ideas to make my idea work better?[/quote']
A camp dedicated to mitigation and, ultimately, destruction of the Great Curse. At least one sidereal would have figured out that it was the curse that made solars a threat in the first place, not the solars themselves. The camp would teach solars to recognize the curse in themselves and techniques to mitigate it. It would also train an arm of solars dedicated to tracking down and controling or destroying solars who had succumbed to the great curse.


IMO, dispelling this curse is the true goal of the Gold Faction. (Also, IMO, the only way they will be able to do this with Autochthon's help, or perhaps his Eye. It may also be possible for really advanced sidereal martial arts -- since they can affect things outside fate -- to help; for example, maybe charms that reduce or manipulate limit in some way).

 

[Halfdead Frodi]

One problem...the Sidereals are UNAWARE of the Great Curse...true, they saw the First Age Solars go nuts...but generally, they either think it is just something wrong with the Solars, or more likely as a Gold Faction member, they think that something in the First Age was the cause... more the environement than the actual Solars.

 

[Andrew02]

One problem...the Sidereals are UNAWARE of the Great Curse...true' date=' they saw the First Age Solars go nuts...but generally, they either think it is just something wrong with the Solars, or more likely as a Gold Faction member, they think that something in the First Age was the cause... more the environement than the actual Solars.[/quote']
I think both camps are trying to work against the Curse even if they only recognize the symptoms thereof.


Why are Maduka Shin and Venerable Silk worried the Solars will go insane again and tailor their training programs to keep the Solars from returning to madness? Is it just because Venerable Silk is, deep down, a submissive little worm who gets off on being commanded by a dominant commanding him to crawl around like a dog? Is Maduka Shin just an aggro bitch who likes to dominate anyone and everyone she can?


If it was simply something wrong with the First Age, which is LONG GONE, there is no need to be concerned over Solars going insane any more, ever.


And the Gold Faction has Lytek. It wouldn't be too (relatively) hard to learn from him about the Great Curse.

 

[wordman]

One problem...the Sidereals are UNAWARE of the Great Curse

See page 263 of the Sidereal book for some ways around this. The way it works in my campaign is that shortly after the Usurpation, a lone sidereal discovered how the great curse affected solars and lunars. He presented this evidence at a gathering of sidereals, but because of how the curse affects them (which this sidereal never figured out), they didn't believe him and relieved him of his duties. He founded the third camp shortly after, but only recently has he made much headway. Much of his camp is staffed by remnants of House Iselsi.

 

[MOK]

As a brief derail:  


Where can I find more info about House Iselsi?  From what I recall, theres only slight allusions to them being there, then being destroyed for some apparently ungiven reason.


"Oh.  Iselsi..  Yeah... Well, they sucked so I got rid of 'em.  Next subject?"

 

[wordman]

Where can I find more info about House Iselsi?

The Dragon-Blooded, page 96 details the house, including the minor houses who got destroyed and why. The main reason is that the house attempted an assassination of the Empress in 303. More interesting is page 97 which discusses why the Empress didn't just kill everyone in the house.

 

[Andrew02]

He founded the third camp shortly after, but only recently has he made much headway. Much of his camp is staffed by remnants of House Iselsi.

What kind of headway, and why Iselsi in particular (instead of, say, Lost Eggs)?

 

[MOK]

Seems like a good idea to me.  


Iselsi is more apt to have Water DB's in it, and Aspects of Water can be more morally flexible.   And Iselsi, like any other house, has it's ambitions.  I'd venture they care even less for the Immaculate Order than about anyone else.  If they see opportunity with the Anathema, well, they've little to lose from the risk.


Iselsi have historically held more connection with the Sidereals.  Though it would have been more with Bronze faction, things have changed in the past few years.  I'm sure they could have gotten Gold contacts.  It could work.


Are there any other places where more Iselsi info can be found?  I can't think of anything beyond the DragonBlood hardback.

 

[Persell]

Has anyone thought where this third (or fourth) camp would be?
I was thinking Rathas.

I thought that the first suggestion for a camp listed in the book (the one that focuses on old rites of worship for the UC) would make a perfect staging ground for reclaiming Rathess. It would have supplies, equipment, laborers, etc. Player groups could studay at the camp, take expeditions to Rathess, and eventually clear it out. The suggestion even says having Dragon Kings around, so players could be involved in the subduing of DKs and transporting them back for enlightenment. Eventually the city would be clear of threats and the group could focus on rebuilding it (and they'd have support).

 

[MOK]

It sounds like a fun side project, but how does this translate into a Gold Faction Training Camp?


Their direct purpose is to mold Solars into a specific vision of the correct leader.  The setting of a camp takes a really far back seat to the main objective...

 

[Andrew02]

The setting of a camp takes a really far back seat to the main objective...

The setting of the camps are tied very much with the method utilized to complete the objective and the ideology of the headmaster. Kether Rock is in one of the harshest environments of Creation because Maduka Shin thinks that making the Solars suffer and struggle is the way to accomplish the main objective. The Tabernacle is a paradise because Silk thinks that Solars need to be completely indulged and acknowledged as shit hot masters of everything to accomplish the main objective.


It seems rather clear to me that the various tasks required to reclaim Rathess would make excellent training exercizes for the Solars. The jungle warfare would be excellent for warriors, the dangerous climate would build character and help survival training, clearing out the Fair Folk and other monsters is whether by diplomacy or by daiklaive is good training too, working to bring the Dragon Kings out of savagery has got to be some good social training (I mean, if you can civilize a bunch of feral rabid dinosaur men . . . how hard could anything else be?), and so on.


Of course, I still think it's a bad idea because I don't think any of the Cult's Solars are ready to take Ma-Ha-Suchi as a team or together, either psychologically or physically. I doubt they have enough Tiger Warriors to deal with the beastmen (who could more easily wage guerilla warfare to keep the school from being reinforced and resupplied than Tiger Warriors and Solars could keep supply lines open). Plus, you know, potential Realm activity not too far up the river from Rathess.