Summoning Paired Weapons

[Forn Clakes]

Could the Melee Charm Summoning the Loyal Steel (Exalted, p.164) be used to summon paired weapons, for example, short daiklaves, sai, hook swords, etc?


The only reason I ask is because the Charm's description states that "Exalted must have an extremely close relationship with a single weapon to use Summoning the Loyal Steel on it..."


Just seems a tad annoying that if your character has paired weapons, then they can send one to Elsewhere while the other stays.


Cheers


~FC.

 

[Flagg]

I'd allow it. Then again, I allow pretty much any request that sounds reasonable.


-S

 

[Jakk Bey]

I would say that an ST would have to be pretty damn petty and anal to rule against it.

 

[Solfi]

... dunno about any official rulings, butI would rule 'yes' (no-brainer really)


Weapons like the Dual Hooked Daiklaves from CB: Night would be kinda pointless otherwise...

 

[Forn Clakes]

Excellent, cheers.


~FC.

 

[DarkProphet]

I'd allow it as long as the weapons were designed to be paired.

 

[Flagg]

If the ST decides to be an asshole about it, you can always use Many Pockets Method instead


-S

 

[Solfi]

... true, but using that charm means that you're disarmable (at least that's how I interpret it).

 

[Flagg]

... true, but using that charm means that you're disarmable (at least that's how I interpret it).

Que?


-S

 

[Solfi]

Many pockets method functions without a relationship to the object in question. Thus I assume physical contact is necessary (besides StLS is sorta obsolete otherwise).


Summoning the Loyal Steel functions without physical contact. So if you are disarmed, you can always call back your weapon, reflexively.

 

[Viragos]

Just because its a related mechanics question. Does being stored in elsewhere break attunement?

 

[Solfi]

No

 

[Flagg]

Many pockets method functions without a relationship to the object in question. Thus I assume physical contact is necessary (besides StLS is sorta obsolete otherwise).
Summoning the Loyal Steel functions without physical contact. So if you are disarmed, you can always call back your weapon, reflexively.

You are corect.


Edit: As a side note, StLS DOESN'T work this way. Void Sheath Technique, the Abyssal version does. I've always assumed that this is how they MEANT to write the Solar version, but it doesn't explictly say so.


-S

 

[Solfi]

?


... If by "this way" you mean the fact that you may reflexively summon the "bonded" weapon from wherever, whenever, then StLS functions that way according to the core book, and Void Sheath Technique does not.


Void Sheath:


"... may banish a weapon from his grasp and the world .... bla bla ...  until the character reflexively ends the charm and draws his weapon forth.


StLS:


"... appearing instantly in his grasp regardless of its previous location ... bla ... can


also banish it (etc)


Also, I believe (and I can't corroborate this right now, but I'll try to find it) I have seen a discussion by one of the authors that this difference was intentional.

 

[Solfi]

Found it on the Exalted Wiki in the Thus Spake Zaranephilpal section:

StLS costs one mote per use and it's reflexive. So at any time you want, you can call your weapon to your hand, and if you have it in your hand, you can banish it to Elsewhere. VST also costs a mote per use, but that mote is committed. It's also a Simple Charm instead of reflexive. When you use the Charm, you banish your held weapon Elsewhere until you reflexively end the Charm and recall it.


Here's what this means. For a cost of one mote, the Solar can reflexively retrieve his weapon from anywhere. If disarmed, he can infallibly trump that disarm. If his weapon is stolen and locked away in a hidden vault in the heart of the Labyrinth or the far reaches of the Wyld or transported back to Autocthonia for study by magitech savants, the blade will come back to him for the most measly expenditure of Essence. The Abyssal doesn't get that advantage. The Abyssal has to have the weapon, and then gets to banish the weapon. Recalling is reflexive, but still, if you lose your weapon... if you get disarmed or someone robs your house, you're screwed. Sure, you could keep your weapon Elsewhere when not in use, but that reduces your pool by a mote. The Solar spent Essence, regained it and didn't lose the mote in the process to maintain the Charm. Now, obviously the Abyssal gets one advantage in that he can recall the blade without using a Charm, thereby allowing awesome Combo-like devastation in conjunction with Ebon Lightning Prana (which is COMPLETELY deliberate).

 

[Flagg]

I'll have to wait until I have my books.


-S

 

[Solfi]

bump for Still. Suspect he missed my last post (see previous page) while posting.

 

[Flagg]

I re-read the StLS from my PDF copy. I admit I was confused.


Unfortunately, I only read all of these Charms in detail once, when I got the book several years ago, so my memory's bound to be a bit rusty.


-S

 

[Solfi]

Well, this seems to have been a point of contention for others as well, so it's good to have a discussion on it to refer to. Neph's comments on the Wiki was helpful too.

 

[random5000uk]

Found it on the Exalted Wiki in the Thus Spake Zaranephilpal section:

StLS costs one mote per use and it's reflexive. So at any time you want, you can call your weapon to your hand, and if you have it in your hand, you can banish it to Elsewhere. VST also costs a mote per use, but that mote is committed. It's also a Simple Charm instead of reflexive. When you use the Charm, you banish your held weapon Elsewhere until you reflexively end the Charm and recall it.


Here's what this means. For a cost of one mote, the Solar can reflexively retrieve his weapon from anywhere. If disarmed, he can infallibly trump that disarm. If his weapon is stolen and locked away in a hidden vault in the heart of the Labyrinth or the far reaches of the Wyld or transported back to Autocthonia for study by magitech savants, the blade will come back to him for the most measly expenditure of Essence. The Abyssal doesn't get that advantage. The Abyssal has to have the weapon, and then gets to banish the weapon. Recalling is reflexive, but still, if you lose your weapon... if you get disarmed or someone robs your house, you're screwed. Sure, you could keep your weapon Elsewhere when not in use, but that reduces your pool by a mote. The Solar spent Essence, regained it and didn't lose the mote in the process to maintain the Charm. Now, obviously the Abyssal gets one advantage in that he can recall the blade without using a Charm, thereby allowing awesome Combo-like devastation in conjunction with Ebon Lightning Prana (which is COMPLETELY deliberate).

Just another viewpoint to the StlS v's VST debate


Lets assume that the solar and abyssal were walking down the street together and get jumped by some muggers...


the solar uses StlS, he has used a charm this turn and hence cannot activate his mega-kill-every-in-the-area combo of doom...


the abyssal reflexively ends VST, which has not used the abyssals one charm usage for the turn...

 

[memesis]

Just another viewpoint to the StlS v's VST debate
Lets assume that the solar and abyssal were walking down the street together and get jumped by some muggers...


the solar uses StlS, he has used a charm this turn and hence cannot activate his mega-kill-every-in-the-area combo of doom...


the abyssal reflexively ends VST, which has not used the abyssals one charm usage for the turn...

This is the usual reason for Combos like Surprise Anticipation Method, Summoning the Loyal Steel and Heavenly Guardian Defense.  If you absolutely must have a Combo that lets you go from "unarmed schmuck" to "everything within 30 yards of me is dead", you're probably paying a very small price to have STLS in your Combo compared to everything else that goes in, and you still get all the benefits STLS provides.

 

[Solfi]

... unless the Solar has the charm in a Combo of course.

 

[Hand of Destiny]

I think you should be able to call paired weapons if you have a strong link to them.  Its the spirit of the thing and an ST would be an ass to play it the other way.