Spirit Courts, Buried Gods, and Yu-Shan

[Lotus1]

Alright, is a spirit the same thing as a god in exalted? because sometimes you see references to spirits, then other times to gods. ?Or maybe does Spirit mean to refer to both gods and elementals? I dont have the GoD so i cant say for sure but are their gods in creation that are more powerful then those in Yu-Shan? Why do some gods reside in creation while others dont? ARe the ones in Yu-shan the rule makers and the ones in creation the ones who follow and convey those rules to mortals?


Lastly, i am really really, really, intrigues by the who Cthilic (buried) Gods. Are Buried gods just gods that ran under the earth to hide, or are they actually gods sent to the deep as punishment or because they were forgotten? Does anyone know or have an idea how they would view the Yozi (Demons), Malfaens and their servants, The Fae, and other such beings also not of creation? I know alot of questions but then i am a curious man.

 

[Persell]

Adoes Spirit mean to refer to both gods and elementals?

Exactly.

are their gods in creation that are more powerful then those in Yu-Shan?

Some gods in Creation are more powerful than some gods in Yu-Shan, but that's not saying much. There are Essence 2 gods in Yu-Shan, there are Essence 2 gods in Creation. Generally the most powerful gods make their way to Yu-Shan because the lifestyle's so much better.


Also, the most powerful gods, the Celestial Incarna, all live in Yu shan.

Why do some gods reside in creation while others dont?

A lot of gods are stationed in Creation. Many have domains that are very local, like the gods of a road or a spring. Others have fled to Creation to avoid their role in the Celestial hierarchy. For example, it's illegal to rule humans directly, for most gods. Some desire this sort of power, so they live in Creation. Others enjoy materialising to enjoy their worship.

ARe the ones in Yu-shan the rule makers and the ones in creation the ones who follow and convey those rules to mortals?

Not really. No such clear division exists, though generally the top policy-makers spend most of their time in Yu-Shan. It's like how the top politicians spend a lot of time in Washington, but not all politicians do. It's just because that's where the power is.

Are Buried gods just gods that ran under the earth to hide, or are they actually gods sent to the deep as punishment or because they were forgotten?

Both. Some fled, others were banished. Most of the banished ones were sent their by the Primordials who decided they sucked too bad to see the light of day. And if a Primordial thinks you're ugly, I ain't gonna argue.

Does anyone know or have an idea how they would view the Yozi (Demons), Malfaens and their servants, The Fae, and other such beings also not of creation? I know alot of questions but then i am a curious man.

Well, some would resent their banishment. However, many banished gods and other creatures fought with the Primordials in the Primordial War. It depends on the spirit.

 

[Obsidian Soul]

I agree.  A lot of the banished gods probably resent the current rulers of Creation a lot more than the Primordials.  At least the Primordials let them live out their pathetic lives in peace, the gods are not so kind.

 

[Lotus1]

very interesting. I think i read somewhere that the leech gods are buried gods, do you know what book more information can be found about them? I dont have any supplements besides ST, and CotW. Also besides the Fairfolk core book is their anywhere else to find information on buried gods?

 

[Forn Clakes]

I think, and I am not entirely sure anout this, that Ruins of Rathess details a buried god, but I can't recall its name.


Not much help really.  :roll:


~FC.

 

[Persell]

I know Ruins of Rathess talks about the leech gods. I finished it yesterday so it's fresh on my brain.

 

[Forn Clakes]

I know Ruins of Rathess talks about the leech gods. I finished it yesterday so it's fresh on my brain.

That's what I was thinking of.


~FC.

 

[SagaciousAscendingHero]

Whats all this about Buried Gods? Where are they mentioned? I can't recall hearing about this before.

 

[Elcief]

They're gods who were vanished under Creation by the Primordials... I don't remember if RoR tells the cause.

 

[Lotus1]

they were like prototypes of gods, and were i guess deemed to psychotic and banished.

 

[Silence In Daylight]

Maybe it was the banishment that warped them...


 While the Primordials weren't exactly sane to begin with, they must be head and shoulders better than the Yozis, between defeat and being locked away for several millenia.

 

[Solfi]

While the Primordials weren't exactly sane...

Define sane... Given that the Primordials are the creators, wouldn't they be the definition of sanity?


btw, I've always had the impression that the Primordials were, in many ways, very similar to the Gods of Creation. But less limited in scope. They just go twisted when they were defeated (both the incarcerated ones and the 'dead' ones).

 

[Vanman]

Define sane... Given that the Primordials are the creators, wouldn't they be the definition of sanity?

Why? I don't think one necessarily has anything to do with the other. Can't creators be insane? Many of our own artists who are considered 'great' might also be considered insane.


And if they were so sane, how come the gods rose up against them? Does that mean that the gods were just petty little spirits who wanted to be top dogs? I thought they rose up because the Primordials had gone insane, or were evil, twisted, and so on. And that's assuming they were ever sane in the first place. If the Primordials were actually sane, and became twisted after their imprisonment/death, again, I ask - why did the gods rise up against them? If this is the case, then it certainly puts the gods in a new light.....

 

[Solfi]

Why? I don't think one necessarily has anything to do with the other. Can't creators be insane?

well, I am of a different opinion of whether or not they were insane in the first place, however. As I said, define "sane". Primordials would simply be so alien that one might think of them as insane.

And if they were so sane, how come the gods rose up against them? Does that mean that the gods were just petty little spirits who wanted to be top dogs?

Yepp. You got it. The texts pretty much hints at this. "Less work hours! More fun! We wanna play the GoD too! Vacations for all!"

I thought they rose up because the Primordials had gone insane, or were evil, twisted, and so on. And that's assuming they were ever sane in the first place. If the Primordials were actually sane, and became twisted after their imprisonment/death, again, I ask - why did the gods rise up against them? If this is the case, then it certainly puts the gods in a new light.....

see above. I haven't really seen anything in the texts that suggests that they were insane. And if you read flavour text from the perspective of the Solars and their ilk, of course it's going to be slanted. We always demonize our enemies.

 

[Jakk Bey]

I dunno...if I think that you can pretty much understand the pisstitude that have both the Malfeans looking for some peace and quiet, and the level of revenge on their wayward servants that the Yozi are obsessed with.


You create a universe, build it up from scratch, even create servants to help you run it, populate it, and then give those servants a bit of autonomy to insure the smooth operation, and the little bastiches conspire with some of the lowest of your Creations, wouldn't you be pissed?


Especially if the little bastiches kill you--beings that can't properly die even--which traps you in a state where you'd really just rather some quiet time?   Or worse, trap you, alive and kicking, inside a realm where there is anything save you and your brethren, and then bind you to appear to serve these upstarts--and not even you, but bits and pieces of your shattered psyche?


In the Exalted universe, the Big Cosmic Evil of the Yozi and the Malfeans is the direct product of the Gods betraying their masters.


And the Forgetten Gods are a byproduct of the carelessness of the Primordials.  They wrought a Creation, but didn't really plan it all that well, and sometimes they got bored, lost interest, and moved on.  Forgot to put their toys away, and just weren't all that responsible with them.

 

[Vanman]

Yepp. You got it. The texts pretty much hints at this. "Less work hours! More fun! We wanna play the GoD too! Vacations for all!"

There's the old adage: 'If you assume, you make an ass of you and me.' Kind of feel that way right now. I must admit that I haven't read every Exalted book in creation - in fact, there are quite a few that I haven't read - but I just assumed that, somewhere, it was explained that the Primordials were evil.


But, having found this out, it makes my current idea for my campaign even that much more logical and potentially more emotionially resonant.


Thanks guys!

 

[Solfi]

Yup.


The fact that the Primordials weren't really inherently evil adds that much more to the Exalted-verse. At least it does for me.

 

[Vanman]

Yup.
The fact that the Primordials weren't really inherently evil adds that much more to the Exalted-verse. At least it does for me.

I agree. As Jakk says, the irony of the Big Cosmic Evil being a direct consequence of the gods' jealousy is just dripping from every pore. In this case, the gods really are irons.


:-)


(On a side note, I know this doesn't really add anything to the discussion, but I'm so close to Elemental status that I just couldn't help myself.....)


:roll:

 

[Lotus1]

hey hey i dont think i have ever seen you on the forums before Vanman, but i am pretty much a newer addition so i guess its not surprising. But i think i have typed alot more and alot quicker then alot of people that have been here since may. Its cus i wanna fit in.  But congragulations, for hitting elemental. I know i scored little god in a couple of weeks, but i have been busy lately so progress has been slower.