Specialties

P

Persell

Ten Thousand Club
Okay, to my understanding a 'Specialty' cannot be any higher than three dice.  I know I've seen it somewhere in the book and for te life of me cannot find the page number that explains it.


If I'm wrong, so be it, I don't mind.  But right now my players (since I can not find the rules printed in black and white) want to create Drgaon Blooded PCs with 5s in specialties.


Can someone help me out here?  Can you place 5 dots in a specialty, the DB sheet has 5 empty circles on the character sheet next to 'specialties'.
 
According to the 1st ed core book on page 99, it does specifically say that there is a max of 3 dots per specialty.  The extra circles on the character sheet are there because every other skill and attibute has five dots to it.


Saying that, I'll add to this my own house rule that seems to work for my circle.  Once an Exalt hits 5 Essence and higher, not only can they raise their stats above 5, but I let them raise their specialties also.  I am currently running the Locust War, and I'm giving out more xp than I would on another game because I want the pc's to come up against First and Forsaken Lion and have at least a chance of survival.


Dont forget the two most basic rules in Exalted.  First, you are the Storyteller, and your word is law.  I don't care if the book says there is no such thing as flying fire-breathing exploding ninja-bots of doom, if you want them, you get them.  Its your game.  Second, so long as the group as a whole agrees to it, why not let your players get that fifth dot in specialization?  Make them earn it.  "You have a Melee of 5, and you want to add 5 dots in sword specialization?  Where did you learn it?  Who taught you?  Why are you so totally focused in this field?"


If you get a excellent story about why the character has those extra dots, make them take a reputation to match it, with the drawback that as he is sitting in a barber shop getting a haircut, some up-and-comming Dragon-Blood strolls in and demands a duel to see if you really are as good as you say.  Imagine the bragging rites of the person that beats him in his chosen specialty.  "Yeah, that Nellens guy over there is a awesome swordsman, but I kicked his ass.  No big deal.  He's not all that."


In another game called Champions, one book that deals with martial arts has a list of disadvantages you can pick up; one is that you cannot refuse a duel.  Your rep has traveled around and now people want to take you down to show how good they are.  Sort of like the anime show (oh, crap.  I'm blocking on the name!  damn, I hate that!) where this swordsman was known as 'Batosi, the Manslayer', and was now trying to live down that rep and had sworn that he would never kill again.


Bottom line; if you are ok with it, go for it.  Just be careful that you don't let your players overbalance the game.
 
For 2nd Edition it's on page 274 of the Core book on the Experience Cost chart.  I usually allow unlimited number of specialities per ability, but only three can ever apply to any one die roll.  If you let Dragon-Blooded have the same speciality up to 5 then they have both a cheaper die adders and a base die pool equal to Solars to double, so you need to be ok with that if you want to allow a DB game to have more than 3 specialities apply to one die roll.
 
Sherwood-


It's Rurouni Kenshin.


Just thought I'd put that in before Battousai got a hold of you.
 
I say that idea is a gamebreaker (see Upaatk:s post for reasons why), but hey, if you want to change the balance in favor of the DBs, it's your game. As long as it fits your Chronicle.
 
I normally wouldn't allow more than three dots in specialties. Skill should be paramount, with specialty being a small edge in special circumstances. If someone can buy a specialty to 5, it becomes far cheaper to match even the greatest of grandmasters by just specialising heavily in one weapon and ditching the skill itself.


Also, the note about dragonblood diceadders is important. Not only does a higher rating in a specialty make them far more powerful and take away from their theme a great deal, but allowing more than one specialty even at a rating of 3 means that they can buy maximum pools in most of their important tasks by buying up specialties, whereas DBs are supposed to be highly specialised individuals, and the fact that they can buy their specs in dice with excellencies is supposed to be a meaningful expression of character, not a restriction.


However, I find that sometimes you want your character to evolve, and specialties in a way "lock" you into one mode, when perhaps you'd have outgrown it otherwise. You used to have "Medicine: Murder Upon the Table 3" for a surgeon madman, but now he's sane again and remorseful of his previously psychotic ways. But he's still got that specialty and can't buy new ones?


I'd let someone delete old specialties through training in new ones or countertraining against old habits. There'd be no refund for me, as it's a character thing not a stats thing. It should never be "I have a new daiklaive and it's better... can I shift over the specialty for free?" because that's cheap and stupid.


But deleting the old to make room for the new is fair and balanced to me.
 
I understood it to mean that one could buy infinite different specialities for a single Ablity, just that no more than three dice could apply even in the case of overlap.
 
Jukashi said:
I understood it to mean that one could buy infinite different specialities for a single Ablity, just that no more than three dice could apply even in the case of overlap.
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It is a bit vague, here is the whole thing
**Max three per Ability, but you can purchase the same specialty multiple times.
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They intended it to mean that you can only have 3 dots of specialties per Ability, just like 1st ed, but they clearly had another cut and paste error like in so many other sections of the book.  
Specialties add flavor to otherwise similar characters, if everyone can have multiples then once again all characters start to look the same since most will end up with  specialties with diklave attacks, and diklave paries, and diklave flurries.  Don't worry about disarming him since he has martial arts punching, ma kicking, ma headbuts, ma blocking, ma paries.


And with a flat cost of 3 xp, this is what will happen.  So if you want to have unlimited specialties I would recommend using the same cost and training time as the skill.
 
Well, that's a bit clearer, but actually, that looks to me like you can have three different specialities, and can buy up to three dots in each, no more than three of which can apply at a time.
 
If they meant 3 different specialties, then why is there that section about being able to purchase the same specialty more then once when the 4 words before the comma would have been sufficient?


If it were just the first part of the sentance, then it could be either, but the second half implys that purchasing more dots in a specialty is special or unusual.  The only way the rest of the sentance makes sense is if the total number of dots that can be purchased is 3 per Ability.  


They really need a real editor to go over these books.  I know someone who edits technical manuals and hirering her for the next books would not cost that much.  WW really needs to look into the quality of the material they put out, which might also be fixed with more test play.  


I guess now I have to put up and come up with a better system, but the real problem is comming up with a good world setting. :?
 
I'm pretty sure some of the WotC people float around on this board.


Skulking and schneekin', they is.


Mayhaps they will pay some attention to your post about compitent editors.  Hell, a good spellchecker wouldn't kill them either.
 
You don't have multiple dots in a speciality. You have multiple specialities that happen to be the same.


Notice that the Xp table doesn't say "New Speciality" And "Increasing a Speciality"? That's because all Specialities are one dot - They can't be increased, you have to buy a second one. It's just that you can take, say Melee(slashing sword) three times.
 
Okay.  I've been following this since I posted it.  Thanks to all of you who assisted me, I've since found the page and quelled the DB Specialty Uprising.  And they didn't take it very well.


I've also followed people mentioning the part about takeing the same specialty multipule times.  I rememeber reading that myself and actually chuckling at such an ignorant statement.


Think about it.  It's hardly debateable, it's common sense.  Would you allow someone to purchase 'Swords' 3 times and max them to 3 dots?


Solar dice pool limits are Attribute + Ability, so around 23 dice with maxed skills and specialty,  for 10 essence. (5+5+10+3)


Dragon Bloods are limited by Ability + Specialty, so around 21 dice for 4 essence.  (5+5+8+3)


Under the stack specialty rule you can end up with a Dragon Blood that has a dice pool max of 37 or only 7 motes of essence! (5+5+14+3+3+3 @ 1m/2die)


That's crazy, man... ca-raaaaaaaazy.
 
And your Attributes and Abilities can go to five or your Essence, which ever is higher.


So, A Solar at Essence 10 would get Attribute (10) + Ability (10) + Specialty (3) + Essence (10) for a total of 33.  Tack on a doubler Charm and you get a total of 53 dice.
 
I do believe this is THE oldest question in history.
 
And your Attributes and Abilities can go to five or your Essence, which ever is higher.
So, A Solar at Essence 10 would get Attribute (10) + Ability (10) + Specialty (3) + Essence (10) for a total of 33.  Tack on a doubler Charm and you get a total of 53 dice.
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With all due respect, I was trying to keep it simple and assume that 5s were the max for attributes and abilities.


Obviously there are several ways to get ass kicking dice pools, we all know it.  An Essence 6 Immaculate DB would no doubt prolly stomp on an Essence 2 Solar.


The point was, the 'stacking' specialties makes a Dragon Blood superior to a Solar.


And the day a Dragon Blood is superior to a Solar is the day I allow Lunars to take 'Human' as thier totem.
 
I have to say that I really don't know what you guys are talking about right now...have I been playing the game wrong for years? I'm at work at the moment, but as soon as I get home I'm going to run and look at these rules because this is the way my group and I've always done it:


You can have 5 DOTS per specialty. However, each Ability can only have 3 associated specialties. In first ed, the exception to this rule was Craft, which could have an infinite number of specialties (all up to 5 dots, as per normal Ability rule usage).


Now, maybe I've just misunderstood something somewhere (including misreading this thread) but thats the way I've always done it.
 
I agree with flagg. Specialties do not have dots, it is in the official errata from first edition. I have not seen the second ed errata yet. you can have three specialties, three dots if you will, per ability. you can place them on three seperate things, or you can place them all on one. no more than three, ever.
 
I don't mean to resurrect a dead topic, but it seems the best place for this question.


I was reading the B&W Treatise when I read page 73 of the White Treatise the stats for the Hidden Judge.  It says it has a Survival of 0 with Tracking specialty at +6.  WTF!?  Perhaps gods are not limited to 3, but it does not say that anywere.


Looking for answers I then saw the Exorcist stats in the main book on page 317.  It has Occult 3 (Art of Warding +3, Death Rituals +1).  I was under the impression characters were limited to 3 dots of specialties like they were in 1e, but that seems to not be true, or they messed up while printing again.  This goes against my earlier argument in this thread, were I said characters can not have more then 3 total pluses of specialties per Ability.


So it looks like this thread is once again relevant.
 
From what I knew of 1E, gods could have a number of Specialty dots per Ability equal to their Permanent Essence.
 
Art of Warding is a form of thaumaturge, and it doesn't count against specialty dot total.


...unless I'm mistaken, which I often am.
 
uteck said:
I don't mean to resurrect a dead topic, but it seems the best place for this question.
I was reading the B&W Treatise when I read page 73 of the White Treatise the stats for the Hidden Judge.  It says it has a Survival of 0 with Tracking specialty at +6.  WTF!?  Perhaps gods are not limited to 3, but it does not say that anywere.


Looking for answers I then saw the Exorcist stats in the main book on page 317.  It has Occult 3 (Art of Warding +3, Death Rituals +1).  I was under the impression characters were limited to 3 dots of specialties like they were in 1e, but that seems to not be true, or they messed up while printing again.  This goes against my earlier argument in this thread, were I said characters can not have more then 3 total pluses of specialties per Ability.


So it looks like this thread is once again relevant.
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Gods have never been good at following the specialty rules, at any point in Exalted. Ker'ion may very well be right here. As for the Warding Specialty, Specialties in Thaumaturgy do indeed not count against the limit in overall KNOWN specialties, but do against the max dice. Additionally, no other specialty, even if appropriate, can count for aiding in Thaumaturgy outside of those in that specific Art.
 
I can't find the rules on this, so....


I actually can't find rules on anything related to creating your own gods.


I guess it's a house rule your dieties thing.
 
It does suit the deity concept quite nicely to allow ridiculous specialties. Consider that unlike any other type of character, a deity can be incredible at one aspect of a skill, while lacking in all others; an impossibility for anyone else who must learn the skill from scratch and thus neccessarily end up close to balanced.


Take the god of heart bypasses, for example. Can he do a bypass? Goddamn, but that god can do a bypass. Can he patch up your bruised knee? He can barely cut a steak at dinner; I wouldn't trust him with a plaster.


Medicine 1 (Heart Bypasses +5).


As to everyone else? Sorry, unlike the god of bypasses, who was 'born' with the ability to bypass but not much else, you had to learn the basics first, necessarily requiring a few dots in medicine. It's unrealistic for you to have learned to pull off a bypass without having to learn bits of anatomy, aseptic technique, use of medicines and tools etc etc.


Hence, although you can end up with Med 1 (Bypasses 3) to represent a totally focused course of training, it's literally impossible for you to be so utterly focused on one aspect of a skill without accidentally picking up dots in the rest. You weren't supposed to be monomanic, like a god.
 
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