Solar Hero Style Fixes

[cyl]

Since Braydz and I have started our study on Celestial Martial Arts... we are examining each CMA (well... that was pretty obvious) and are trying to see what the problems are (following the logic spirit of the art - proportion cost/power/accessible powers in the tree).


In the Solar Hero style, we found 2 charms that needed fixes according to us.


Solar Hero Form and Heaven Thunder Hammer.


Solar Hero Form is a simple speed 6 charm, costing 6 motes, and allows a character to parry L damage and to double extra successes when determining damage without charm use for the cost of 1 motes.


Since the powers, speed, place in the tree and mote cost aren't really proportionated, and this it was only something added to give a form to a transfusion of crappy brawl charms from 1e to 2e we thought of a mod.


Speed 5


Additional powers: unarmed attacks inflict L damage.


Heaven Thunder Hammer is a supplemental charm, costing 3 motes and allowing an exalt to instantly knockback his opponent away 1 yard per point of pre soak damage, and adding B damage should the opponent hit a hard object on his way, or L damage if something sticky is found following the formula


- damage dice = total number of yards - number of yards already traveled before hitting the object.


Considering the relative use of this power, its place in the tree, and the fact that the next charm Crashing Wave Throw has the same mote cost and the same base effect but multiplied... we though of the following mod.


cost: 1 mote.

 

[Persell]

The Solar Hero form charm ability costs 1m because it is extremely potent - the text says that it "counts successes... twice for the purpose of damage". Not extra successes, successes. As in if you come up with 8 successes on your attack roll then for the purposes of calculating raw damage it is as if you rolled 16 successes.


So yeah, you can still alter the charm to make it more powerful if you want to house rule it, but it's already quite deadly.


As for mote costs in Solar Hero form...do you have Dreams of the First Age? Solar Hero Supremacy is a scene length charms that reduces the cost for all Solar Hero charms you use by 3. This renders the majority of the charms in the core rulebook free to use, as most of them only cost 3m in the first place.

 

[cyl]

There is only one problem with your logic: doubling suxx for the purpose of damage = doubling over suxx.


I mean it's definitely not a perfect attack, so you still need to pass through your target's DV, which will necessarily reduce your suxx and give you the exact number of over suxx that are actually doubled by the SHF power.


SHS on the other hand (IIRC) reduces the cost of any SH charm... given that you didn't use that charm on your previous action (meaning you can't use the same technique twice...)

 

[Heaven's Thunder Hammer]

There is only one problem with your logic: doubling suxx for the purpose of damage = doubling over suxx.
I mean it's definitely not a perfect attack, so you still need to pass through your target's DV, which will necessarily reduce your suxx and give you the exact number of over suxx that are actually doubled by the SHF power.


SHS on the other hand (IIRC) reduces the cost of any SH charm... given that you didn't use that charm on your previous action (meaning you can't use the same technique twice...)

Seems like a good question to ask WW to errata on the Wiki.

 

[cyl]

This Charm allows the Exalt to count the successes of unarmed Martial Arts attacks twice for the purposes of determining damage. She must spend one mote reflexively in Step 7 of attack resolution each time she takes advantage of this effect.

Which means post confrontation sucesses on the attack roll vs DV which happens on Step 5.


No reason to burden the wiki with this one

 

[Persell]

That's actually what I thought about it originally too. However, it doesn't say that it doubles your successes after subtracting DV, it just says "doubles your successes". The reason it activates in Step 7 is because that's when damage factors in, and the charm only doubles your successes for the purposes of damage not for determining whether you hit or not. Otherwise it would have the same wording as Hungry Tiger Technique.


Also Solar Hero Supremacy does reduce the mote costs for a scene. "Any given SH Charm won't count as a Charm use with regard to Combos as long as the martial artist didn't use the same charm on his last action." I think that's the part of the mechanics you are talking about, and it has nothing to do with the mote reduction aspect of the charm.

 

[cyl]

Well since it "counts the successes of unarmed Martial Arts attacks twice for the purposes of determining damage" ... the only suxx taken into account for damage are suxx past DV...


I mean it doesn't say double your successes on an unarmed MA... it says count twice for damage.


Since step 5 comes before step 7... and though SHF doesn't mention extra suxx, it does mention step 7 (while HTT does the exact opposite).


It's just really poor writing but we are used to that by now aren't we ?

 

[cdi]

I have one modification for you:


Shockwave Technique: Add the keyword Combo-OK to this charm because everything else in the style (except the form) is also Combo-OK.


-cdi

 

[Persell]

It's a damage effect, so it has to be placed in Step 7. Where else would you put it in attack resolution? There is nowhere else, because damage doesn't come into play until....step 7. The reason that they bother to mention that it activates in step 7 is so you don't have to spend 1m until you know that you hit your target.


"...counts the successes of unarmed Martial Arts attacks twice for the purposes of determining damage," is mentioned one sentence prior to when it tells you which Step it comes into play. Just because it says you activate it in step 7 does not automatically mean that it alters the previous sentence to say "counts the extra successes of unarmed Martial Arts attacks twice for the purposes of determining damage".


I do agree that it would be nice if the rules were more clear. And I really wish they would include examples of how some of the more vague Charm descriptions like this one work in the text. One or two extra sentences to show everybody exactly how the Charm works could go a long way to preventing confusion like this.

 

[Edelritter]

There's an ongoing discussion about Solar Hero Style here. Maybe you can get some use out of it.