Solar and Lunar joint campaign 2nd Edition

Your comments have been a great help, I have had a lot of GM experience but have never even played this game, so thanks.


Having read more of the Charms and Knacks I am moving away from the need for equalising the number of Charms and Knacks so have changed my set up as shown above.


I am using 2nd edition but do use Nature. It’s an easy rack to hang your character on, but I see Virtues as being of equal if not more importance. Overall I don’t like to straightjacket character ideas with simple descriptions, but it’s a good way to start.


The reason my Favourites section seems a bit wrong is I am not yet using the complete rules, see below.


What I would also like now is your ideas on the relevance of using Specialities and Favoured charms and abilities.


1) I have not yet decided to use Specialties, I just can’t see the point it them. Old fashioned ST Specialities made sense; this just seems an excuse for a few extra die. Apart from adjusting cannon characters I can’t see any reason to keep them.


2) Favoured charms and abilities. I can see the point here, but does this not lead to characters who are a bit one dimensional when it comes to Abilities and Charms? You know what cheapskates most players are, once they see something that costs less points that’s all they buy.
 
Moonsilver said:
What I would also like now is your ideas on the relevance of using Specialities and Favoured charms and abilities.
1) I have not yet decided to use Specialties, I just can’t see the point it them. Old fashioned ST Specialities made sense; this just seems an excuse for a few extra die. Apart from adjusting cannon characters I can’t see any reason to keep them.


2) Favoured charms and abilities. I can see the point here, but does this not lead to characters who are a bit one dimensional when it comes to Abilities and Charms? You know what cheapskates most players are, once they see something that costs less points that’s all they buy.
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I can't comment on the old ST system because I only played Mind's Eye Theater in the old ST system. But remember this - you can only buy three dice - total - in specialties. So if a player buys three dots in a sword specialty for his Melee ability, that's it. He can't buy any more. And yes, it may be a way to get a few more dice, but this is a game about epic heroes. So they have a few more dice. Who cares? And the players do have to justify it (at least if I were running the game). And the specialties definitely come into play if you're playing Dragon-Blooded, because it helps determine how many dice they can add with their Excellencies. DBs are limited by ability only - they don't get to add attributes - but specialties do count.


As for the favored abitilities, again, the PCs are demigods. They're the heroes of Creation. At character creation, the number of dots you can buy is limited by the number of freebie points you spend on abilities. You can only buy an ability up to 3 before spending bonus points. Same with charms. But, again, the PCs are supposed to be this good. It's the reason they were made. The favored abilities and charms are cheaper to buy because that's the area of expertise and/of focus they were trained in and/or their caste/aspect focuses on.


If having all high stats is that much of an issue, then limit them at character creation. Say "No abilities above 3/4/whatever." It's my opinion - and this is just my opinion - others may feel differently - that making everything homogenized is just making a world where every character type is the same. And I don't find that so interesting. If that's what you want to do, then more power to you. But I believe you're taking away one of the cool aspects of the game world.
 
Specialties are important. First, they are part of the DB dice cap. Secondly, things like Thaumatrugy are a form of specialty. As well, they allow someone to show a focus on something mechanically...like a master of the sword who is not nearly so good with an axe, or a charming ladies man who isn't so much a leader. Specialties are something that can help greatly at personalizing a character. This way Joe Exalt who has Melee 5, Swords +3, and Bob Exalt who also has Melee 5, Axes +3 actually show their weapon preferance. They can't just trade weapons and be completely equal with how they were. Or you can have Don Exalt, charmer of ladies, with Presence 2, Seduction +3...as skilled at charming the ladies as Michelle Exalt, with Presence 5 is at charming her own prefered individuals...but not nearly so skilled a leader or orator. Also, a number of charms deal specifically specialties. Or, there's always Zorro's specialty...in most things 'While Stunting' or perhaps 'While being Flashy'. When has he done anything that wasn't over the top and excessive?


Personally, I use specialties liberally to help flesh out a character as much as get a few extra dice...and if there are DB antagonists, allies or some such, taking away part of their cap is well, going to make things a lot less interesting, as people easilly just dice their way past...without much effort, and gives them the same dice cap as mortals.
 
they are part of the DB dice cap.
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And, just in case you missed it:

they are part of the DB dice cap.
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Terrestrials without specialties are much, much weaker.


Even if your players choose not to use them, don't take them out of your game.
 
Ok I see the point about Specialties, but I will introduce them after we start with Experience points. That way they can feel there way a bit before they decide what they want.


I am still not totally sure about the Favourites, if you want to tailor you guy to be the best Dawn Caste Warrior you can just spend more points there?


Is not a level 4 cap with only one 5 the standard anyway? Having noticed that I am less concerned about the Favourites, but still wondering what it is there for. :)
 
Moonsilver said:
Ok I see the point about Specialties, but I will introduce them after we start with Experience points. That way they can feel there way a bit before they decide what they want.
I am still not totally sure about the Favourites, if you want to tailor you guy to be the best Dawn Caste Warrior you can just spend more points there?


Is not a level 4 cap with only one 5 the standard anyway? Having noticed that I am less concerned about the Favourites, but still wondering what it is there for. :)
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Each caste had a specific role in the First Age, and the caste favored abilities reflect these roles. Having said that, not every Dawn is simply a warrior. They can be artificers, generals, pit fighters, bounty hunters, and so on. The other five favored abilities allow the player to give more depth to the character. The XP discount in the favored abilities reflects, in my opinion, the inherent facility each member of the caste has with the standard abilities of that caste, and with the abilities that define the character outside the caste abilities. And no, there are no limits, other than what the ST decrees, on starting characters. At least not with abilities. Now, you have to spend bonus points in order to get an ability to 5, but it can be done.
 
To be blunt, favoured picks are there to help the player define the character concept and give him a bonus for sticking to it.


If your dawn caste one is a swordsmith/swordman and your dawn caste two is a sorceror general, they will both have caste abilities but only one will have occult and lore and one will have craft and lore. The higher xp cost keeps the sorceror from becoming an expert artificer, too and gives both a bonus if they stick to their schtick.


That being said, if you want a grittier game you could try less favoured picks.


@dragon-blooded and specialities. Taking those away is a particularly interesting idea. It changes the game a lot. dragon-blooded go from nearly equal dice pools to quite inferior dice pools just by taking that away. If you take two martial artists, one solar, one dragon blooded, both have dex 5, martial arts 5 and +3 in unarmed. So both usually roll 13 dice. Now give both the first excellency.


case 1. rules as written:


Solar can buy 10 dice, for a total of 23 and dragon blooded can buy 8 dice for a total of 21.


case 2. without specialities


Solar can still buy 10 dice, for a total of 20, dragon blooded can only buy five dice and drops from 21 to 15, that is five less than the solar.


So, you could of course argue that the dragon blooded dice cap is too good anyway as they are supposed to be inferior, but that does do no good. As for one, they are hellishly inferior anyway, even a trained immaculate monk can be stopped dead buy just buying 2-3 solar dodge charms (and perhaps hearthstone bracers if you are no combatant).


And you are running a solar/lunar game, you get nothing from making dragon blooded any weaker besides that they will stomp the wyld hunt a lot more casually. And that says a lot, becuase they wyld hunt is not particularly strong these days anyway.
 
Safim said:
As for one, they are hellishly inferior anyway, even a trained immaculate monk can be stopped dead buy just buying 2-3 solar dodge charms (and perhaps hearthstone bracers if you are no combatant)
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Not to wander off topic a bit, but how exactly do you figure the dodge bonus from the bracers? Does it add 2 to your dodge pool and therefore a 1 to your DDV? or does the bonus only apply for dodging things like traps and such, basically when you use the Dex+Dodge roll, not the static value. I only ask because this exact question came up in my game last week.
 
Not to wander off topic a bit' date=' but how exactly do you figure the dodge bonus from the bracers? Does it add 2 to your dodge pool and therefore a 1 to your DDV? or does the bonus only apply for dodging things like traps and such, basically when you use the Dex+Dodge roll, not the static value. I only ask because this exact question came up in my game last week.[/quote']
The bracers add a 3-die bonus to all dodge attempts, not just dodging traps. There are a couple of waays to handle this:


- roll the dice every attack or every turn, and add successes to the DDV.


- add +3 to the base calculation, so their DV is (Dex + Dodge + Essence + 3) / 2.


We use the second option.
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