Silver Pact Solar?

Jukashi

Jukashi

Four Thousand Club
The scenario: two twin sisters. One Exalts as a Lunar, and then gets caught by the Wyld Hunt. Her sister tries to rescue her, and Exalts as a Solar in the process. Then a bunch of Lunars comes and finds them.


Considering that the two sisters don't want to be separated, and the Solar is amenable to the ideals of the Silver Pact, what do they do with her? And if they teach her as they would a young Lunar, would she get any advantages like Sidereal-trained Solars do?
 
... it could work. More than a few Lunars are guardedly positive towards the return of the Solars. And although I can't quote anything directly from memory, I've seen intimations that Solars could potentially gain quite a bit of standing, even within the Lunar community, by acting honorably.


Heavens knows, that they (the Lunars) aren't so stupid as not to see the benefit of a Solar sympathetic to their cause. The fact that he happens to have family-ties to one of their own can only help.


And of course, as an ST, you can have lots of fun with that scenario as some Lunars rally to support and others who are not quite as tickled by the idea of a Solar in their midst, try to oust him/her.
 
The way I view it is that the Solar could gain some status in the Silver Pact but no more than the first rank and her trials would be far harsher and more dangerous than a Lunars.  Where a young Lunar would still have too prove herself, the Solar would do so without the safety net of an older sibling.


~FC.
 
Yes.  


The Solar won't get eaten by First Age Lunars out of hand.  She will have a few moments to plead for her miserable life, before knowing the hell that is the belly of the Leviathan...


Throw them a bone on Wyld protection Charms, I suppose. And maybe 86 the idea of the character becoming a wiz at Bureacracy?
 
I think that sidebar is about people who are already at the level of starting characters or higher. In this situation, however, they've found a Solar directly after her Exaltation, and have the opportunity to mould some Silver Pact ideals into her.
 
Most of it should still apply; after all, newly Exalted Lunars are thrown into the testing before they get much (if any) education about the Silver Pact.


 Your suggestion about indoctrinating the Solar sister would make sense if she asked to join the Silver Pact several years after her sister passed her initiation, and stayed with her sib all this time. Your story, though, doesn't sound like this would happen--she'd want to test with her sib, now.
 
The sidebar states that they take the safety off the test because the initiate is already "an adult of her people"- by Lunar standards, a newly Exalted Solar probably wouldn't count as an adult.

Your suggestion about indoctrinating the Solar sister would make sense if she asked to join the Silver Pact several years after her sister passed her initiation, and stayed with her sib all this time.
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Wait, what? I don't quite understand what you mean by this.
 
As soon as a Lunar Exalts, they're tossed into their initiation. Granted, fixing their caste adds a bit of urgency to the proceedings, but why should non-Lunars get any breaks from the Silver Pact? Adult, non-adult--if they can convince the Silver Pact that they have a good reason to try for the initiation, why should the Pact stop her?


 This is how I saw your scenario:


1) Lunars encounter sisters escaping from Wyld Hunt.


2) Lunars inform Lunar sister of what she is, and that she needs to be initiated, now.


 Why wouldn't the Solar sister demand, then and there, to be initiated as well, if she wants to stay with her sister? And why would the Pact turn her down?
 
The part about the Solar sister being amenable to the ideals of the Silver Pact...how else would the Lunars be able to tell?


 Then again, I could have misinterpreted your intention entirely, in which case I'll return to your original question--no matter how well molded the Solar is, she's still not a Lunar. Even the occasional Half-Caste or beastman that gets accepted into the Silver Pact still gets the second-class-citizen treatment.


 As for potential bennies...a powerful Mentor, access to Emerald and Sapphire circles should the character be sorcerously inclined (or for the darker ones, Shadowlands). Should you allow it, giving the Solar access to the Lunar benefits from Fair Folk, such as buying glamour sorcery, oaths, and behemoths, and getting Graces forged...


 Let's not forget the effects of the tattoos on the Solar--whether they confer less than the total protection against shapechange that they do for Lunars, or possibly unexpected benefits--conferring an appropriate Lunar caste power on the Solar, for instance.
 
The part about the Solar sister being amenable to the ideals of the Silver Pact...how else would the Lunars be able to tell?
 Then again, I could have misinterpreted your intention entirely, in which case I'll return to your original question--no matter how well molded the Solar is, she's still not a Lunar. Even the occasional Half-Caste or beastman that gets accepted into the Silver Pact still gets the second-class-citizen treatment.
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Right, there we go. Yes, that makes sense. Thank you.

Let's not forget the effects of the tattoos on the Solar--whether they confer less than the total protection against shapechange that they do for Lunars, or possibly unexpected benefits--conferring an appropriate Lunar caste power on the Solar, for instance.
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Would the Lunars bother to put proper tattoos on a Solar, knowing that they don't need them like Lunars do? They might just put decorative tattoos on, as a mark of Silver Pact membership.
 
If your girl wants to get involved in Lunar games, this a good device.  She'll have to prove herself, and if she wants those funky shape fixing, no Wyld warping tattoos, she'll have to earn them, and perhaps a few Solar Charms that the Lunars have some knowledge of as well to help protect her--but I'd be careful not to twink out too hard.  She might be inclined to side with the Lunars, but she still won't be a Lunar.  She has her purpose, and they have theirs.  Let that unfold, and not let her get too intangled.
 
Jukashi said:
Would the Lunars bother to put proper tattoos on a Solar, knowing that they don't need them like Lunars do? They might just put decorative tattoos on, as a mark of Silver Pact membership.
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 You could run that as a scenario--after the sisters both pass, they're taken to the same place for their tattooing.


 The Solar looks over at her sister, and sees all the ritual equipment for manipulating moonsilver in place. She looks at her own side--nothing of the sort.


 If the PC picks up on it and wants to make a point of it...happy role-playing!
 
I don't think they'd let them take the initiation at the same time- the point is that the new Exalt has to do it on their own. Even if they avoided helping each other, two inexperienced Exalts running around trying to survive in the same area will cause all sorts of trouble.


So, considering an initiation lasts several days, if they did first one and then the other, they'd probably do the tattooing right after she got back; especially the young Lunar, who they'd most likely do first.
 
The challenges needn't be run together, or even concurrently. As long as the Solar sister gets to observe a Lunar being tattooed--or is observant enough to note that her tattooing equipment is unlikely to generate the 'right' kind of tattoos...
 
Sounds fun.


How about honour and debts and so forth? Say she's a Dawn caste, in which case she'll have fiesty young Lunars knocking on her door all the time. (After all, if normal Solars are an honour to beat, think of the prestige of beating a Solar who's been taught by the really strong people, i.e. Lunars.)


Would a Silver Pact Solar be considered the same as another Lunar for the purposes of inflicting/collecting blood debts?
 
Jukashi said:
Sounds fun.
How about honour and debts and so forth? Say she's a Dawn caste, in which case she'll have fiesty young Lunars knocking on her door all the time. (After all, if normal Solars are an honour to beat, think of the prestige of beating a Solar who's been taught by the really strong people, i.e. Lunars.)


Would a Silver Pact Solar be considered the same as another Lunar for the purposes of inflicting/collecting blood debts?
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I'd say that greatly depends on the solar, but literature is actually quite full of outsider-protagonists stepping up to the ideals of another people. For example "dances with the wolves" and "last samurai". I think the solar would be expected to be better than her peers to recieve the same amount of respect.
 
I was playing in a Silver Pact Solars game. I think the Solars are quite capable of joining the Pact, they just have to prove themselves first. My Zenith had to pass the initiation tests like any Lunar then the circle of Solars had to further prove themselves with a mission they undertook together.


I wish I could tell you how it went after that, but the game seems to be on hiatus. In any case so long as the Solars pass tests and follow the Pacts rules, I see no reason they can't join the Pact. They may never be quite the same as Lunar members though.
 
I think that, at most, Solars would be considered high ranking pawns in the Silver Pact.  Would the Silver Pact want to use them?  Of course.  Would the Silver Pact want them to join?  Well, that's a different story.


Let's say that the Solars do manage to join the Pact and gain some standing there.  That means that lesser ranking Lunars will be somewhat honored bound to follow them.  How would the Lunars feel about that, following somebody who isn't really one of them?  The alpha within Lunars probably wouldn't like that too much.  "Why should we follow the Solars?  Remember how they led us back in the First Age?  Do you really think we should go down that path again?"


If you ask me, I think it would be a more compelling story to have the Lunar twin join the Silver Pact but the Solar not join.  Perhaps you could have it where the Lunar twin joins the Silver Pact but the Solar twin joins the Cult of the Illuminated.  How will the twins deal with being forced to separate like that, that even though they want to be part of the same organization, those organizations won't allow them.  Or how about the organizations' view on the other?  How with the Lunar react when the Solar tell her that, according to the Cult of the Illuminated, the Lunar should be submissive to her because the natural order is that the Lunar Exalted obey and follow the Solar Exalted?  How will the Solar react when the Lunar tells her of the great debauchery and vileness that the Solar Exalted did in the First Age and could do again in this one?  What would the Solar twin do when she finds out that the Cult of Illuminated have a plan to use the Lunar Exalted to their own ends at the price of something precous to the Chosen of Luna?  What will the Lunar twin do when she hears that some elders of the Silver Pact plan to launch a preemptive strike against a group of Solars to keep them from intruding on their territory?


All stories are about conflict, but instead of having the conflict centered on the one twin trying to be with the other perhaps it would be better if you were to have both twins trying to keep their relationship together in spite of the directions they are being pulled in by the beliefs and agenda of the organizations they individually belong to.
 
That's a very nice idea, I like it. I'll try keep it in mind.


However, it's not really in the nature of the characters, in this case, to do so. If the Solar wasn't allowed join the Pact, she'd just hang around her sister anyway; being the "older" sister, she's basically invested herself in the role of being her sibling's protector. That's why she went to rescue her from the Wyld Hunt, despite being mortal (at the time). Part of the sisters' theme is that it's a reversal of the roles Solars and Lunars had in the First Age.
 
Aloha's idea has a lot of merit, but unless you want to eventually pit the two sisters against each other...cause that's likely where it'll end up.


 I'm personally as fond of the conflict involved with the Solar in the Silver Pact, working twice as hard for half the credit, as organizational conflicts tearing a family apart. But the former would definitely be something I'd be more comfortable playing...and running.
 
while i think that the idea is workable. their are some things that you have to remember.


to the Lunars this is a solar. meaning that he is a living embodiment of their betrayal to the solars. also is that he does not have the same powers or limitations as Lunars meaning that the common expierence that all lunars share (trials, tattooing, shape changing, beastmen) the solar will never be apart of.


i think that it works as long as the idea that "he is not one of us" is a constant.
 
lunar initiation as a merit


I am about to start in a game where I was allowed to use the intiating outsides ruling as a 3 pt merit allowing for allies within the silver pact in exchange for taking the 3 pt flaw of disfigured representing the scars I recieved during my trials.  If you are still looking for opinions, this might be a helpful idea.
 
In Exalted, and especially in regards to Lunars, scars are generally the sexy kind instead of the ugly kind.
 
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