Should DFG be changed?

DeValera

DeValera

New Member
Ok so here's the story. My GM believes Distracting finger gesture is overpowered and because i want it obviously i believe its perfectly fine :P


What do you guys think? should it be changed and if u were to change it what would u do?
 
Did your ST offer any specific reasons why it's "overpowered"?
 
Yes of course he did. He offered many.


*You can use it on multiple people


*You can keep someone permanently in stasis with it


*You can attack while using it


For those of you who dont know what it does its the Third charm in the celestial MA tree Ebon Shadow Style


Cost:2m (maybe 3 motes-cant remember)


Type:Reflexive


Dur:Instant


Adds your martial arts score in ticks to an opponents tick pool


EDIT: Forgot that also the target cannot split his dice pools on his next action
 
The only thing overpowered about it is perhaps that there is no defense against the charm. If it were to be toned down, I suggest something with mental DV against it.


The effects of the charm don't seem overpowered to me. If you compare with Unbreakable Fascination Kata (Dragon-Blooded, p. 211), then it certainly is not. Here is a celestial level MA charm, that lets you keep all your opponents inactive, while your circle-mates beat them into pulp.
 
When my players want to use items, charms, or spells that give them a sizeable advantage, I remind them that the bad guys have access to the same stuff and can use it against them.  That helps keep things under control to a degree.  You want to buy skill levels to do head shots with your .357?  Fine.  But dont bitch at me if you get shot in the head and dropped like a sack of flour.  Same for Exalted.  You want the UberDiaklave of Everything Slaying?  Ok.  Your opponent just got ahold of the MegaPowerbow of Rapid Cruse Missiles.  Lets play.


As the Storyteller, you have the power to approve and disapprove what goes on in your game.  If a player dislikes a ruling, you can show him/her the result of facing it themselves.  It helps to answer the question of "Is this charm overpowered?"
 
From what I've been able to gather from discussion of such in my gaming group...effects like this can only be used once on a person per turn (thanks much on these terminology clarifiers, Wordman) that you, the PC, have. You can't stack them each tick on the same poor bastard unless they have the 'stackable' keyword, which DFG doesn't. Though, if you can make it so your moment always comes before his does, I guess he's still screwed...but that's not necessarily always possible (dern speed two jade monkeys).


Though I suppose you can use it once a tick on different people...use it on Joe on tick 1, then Bob on tick 2, then tick 3 for George...but not on George again on tick 4. Well, unless it's your moment on tick 4...and it certainly limits your charm use or forces you to make combos...
 
I return for a brief update!


DeValera, your ST (Cough) must surely be an intelligent, handsome man.


Anyway, because it's reflexive, you don't need to wait a tick to target someone else. You can simply hit everyone at once.


Good call on noticing it's not stackable, that lowers the ridiculous geiger counter a little, but not enough.


I don't see why they added the "tick increase" feature to an already excellent charm. It occurs to me that without the ticks, in its unmodified first edition form, it's already very powerful for its position in a celestial martial art.


Thus in my game it's probably going to stay as 1st edition: A decrease to initiative (Wits+Awareness to join battle, for example) and a lack of dice-pool splittage.
 
Samiel said:
I return for a brief update!
DeValera, your ST (Cough) must surely be an intelligent, handsome man.


Anyway, because it's reflexive, you don't need to wait a tick to target someone else. You can simply hit everyone at once.


Good call on noticing it's not stackable, that lowers the ridiculous geiger counter a little, but not enough.


I don't see why they added the "tick increase" feature to an already excellent charm. It occurs to me that without the ticks, in its unmodified first edition form, it's already very powerful for its position in a celestial martial art.


Thus in my game it's probably going to stay as 1st edition: A decrease to initiative (Wits+Awareness to join battle, for example) and a lack of dice-pool splittage.
Click to expand...
Gadzooks! You live! I have to return all that insurance money now...
 
I relish in costing you! :D


Yea, I've been gone'd for a while because of college. I heart college, but it leaves me without volition at the end of the day sometimes...


I intend to maintain a baseline level of activity here for a while to keep myself in the loop 'til Summertime, when the living is, I'm assured, easy.


Right now, I'm tending to the tenderly put queries of my friend and player, DeValera.. :P
 
It does not stack.  This means that your target(s) will get their actions, they'll just get them more slowly.  It also means that targets who already have an action still get it.


Example: Ninja Ned goes on tick 5, and his opponent Guard George is up to attack him on tick 6.  Ned's Martial Arts is maxed to 5, so he gives George "the finger".  George's next action is now tick 11 (6+5), but Ned cannot push it past that.  He CAN then Aim to tick 8 (to refresh his ability to use Charms) and use Paralyzing Touch Attack (putting his next tick on 14, and risking the chance that George can still act before he freezes up).


Advantages: you can basically distract a room full of soldiers with enough Essence, and possibly a room full of Exalts long enough to get away.  You can PROBABLY wipe out a room full of guys with the right Combo as a follow up to this Charm, if nobody sees you coming.


Disadvantages: you can't use a perfect defense, so if someone is acting on the same tick as you use this (for example if they were Aiming), they still get their action.  It pays to watch the ninja closely and be ready for his moves.  It does not work against targets you are not aware of (so ninja-vs-ninja duels become interesting).  It is Obvious, so you are giving away any hope of hiding your nature - it's used when you either need to kill someone, steal something, or get away from somewhere, not as a casual invisible combat buff.  It does not do a thing about Counterattacks (like Leaping Dodge Method, for example), so the unwary ninja can still be pasted by a clever Dawn.  The DV refresh issue is moot for characters who can neutralize DV penalties with Charms (such as Solars using a scene-long defense).  It does not stop someone from using Reflexives that can mess up your whole program, like Mantis Style's Grasping Mantis Defense.
 
Everyone's forgetting that not only does it give +5 ticks reflexively (Thus allowing multiple applications AND an unrelated action, which can include powers other than charms..), it also bars someone from splitting their dice pools on their action.


One or the other please, and the former still needs fixing to be less ridiculous.


If I were to allow it as a tick adder and not a dice-splitting-deny-er, I'd make it a small-speed simple charm. Perhaps the issue in my mind could be resolved by splitting the charm into a bubble-fork in the tree, with the two effects being bought as independant portions.


You might even make them combo-ok in that case, as it's not quite as bad if it's more expensive, for example if it requires a willpower and a few more motes, you can't just use it with impunity.


If it's only four motes, you can just two-die stunt hitting someone and keep denying them their actions; four motes to deny half of someone's actions is ridiculously overpowered, and let's remember that they'll never get to split their dice pools, ever.
 
... the way I read it, you can't use it on the same victim more than once, until after he's gotten his once-delayed action. So, yes, he's delayed. But not indefinitely (which is what I get the impression that you are implying)...
 
Samiel said:
Everyone's forgetting that not only does it give +5 ticks reflexively (Thus allowing multiple applications AND an unrelated action, which can include powers other than charms..), it also bars someone from splitting their dice pools on their action.
Click to expand...
And this is the only Charm the ninja will be using in that case, ever.  If someone is stupid enough to stand there and allow himself to be mind-raped over and over again, then I dare say he deserves what he got.  If he was smart, he'd get out of sight, and either try to re-establish surprise or put on a blindfold (will this affect the Charm?  I would let it do so, based on the theme of the Charm).


Perhaps this is a debilitating scenario in the fabled one-on-one Exalted duels people seem to pin their power-level assessments on (and not so much if the other Exalt has any sort of useful Reflexive), but I can see this Charm as very useful in some scenarios and not so much in others, and those scenarios where it is good are those where ninja characters are expected to do well.
 
Good to see a little better clarification...I think I get fully how it works now...good thing, considering if I were to translate one of my 1st ed chars, I'd have it. *chuckles* Handy, but I agree it's not game breaking.


Sure you could use it on Joe Solar and a few of his buddies on the same tick, but you can't do it to Joe Solar more than once until he gets to act again. However, it doesn't stop Joe Solar from pulling out a perfect block/counterattack combo on your butt when you try to attack him. Nor does it stop him from using any other reflexive toys he might have...


And, while it may prevent splitting dice, it does nothing about extra action charms, either. So you can't flurry. Joe Solar could still pull out Peony Blossom Attack or Iron Whirlwind Attack on them or a combo involving them. And since his moment has arrived, he can use them no matter what he used to defend himself beforehand against Ned the Ninja's assaults.


On the whole, powerful, but not unbearably so, IMO...the lack of 'stackable' really does move it into perspective.
 
Samiel said:
I relish in costing you! :D
Yea, I've been gone'd for a while because of college. I heart college, but it leaves me without volition at the end of the day sometimes...


I intend to maintain a baseline level of activity here for a while to keep myself in the loop 'til Summertime, when the living is, I'm assured, easy.


Right now, I'm tending to the tenderly put queries of my friend and player, DeValera.. :P
Click to expand...
CAD! Villain! Smiling damned villain!


...Get your ass back on here ASAP!
 
Hmmm,well dev, your gm seems to be a bit of a anti power gamer, i think the charm is fine, considering what he gives other players, he gives an artifact book to someone with the power to anything they want and no setbacks, then he wont let you give someone 5 ticks..........


Theres something wrong,very wrong....


Btw i heard theres someone in your circle called rob? Is he really as awesome cool and handsome as everyone says he is?
 
He's all right. I wouldn't hit that, like, but he's ok. If you're bored, I suppose.


Would you like a book, too?
 
You know, personally, I always thought Rob would get on very well with Jukashi. There always something a little animalistic about that guy.
 
Commies wouldn't sell pheramones on the interweb! They'd provide them to their citizens to reinforce the birth rate..
 
DFG


No Dev! That charm shouldnt be changed and i feel that your gm has a complex about power and you should leave the game, Your gm is obivsouly worried about players power too much as he feels he is losing the game which is a bad way to view the game.
 
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