Sell me on the Bard

[JayTee]

Or more specifically, the idea of using music in combat.


Let me be clear, I like the idea of magic music, I think it's neat. I like the idea of a magician using warchants and such to hype up and mystically enhance a group of warriors to to better in battle, and I like the idea of a songweaver using soothing melodies after the battle to easy aches and pains and accelerate healing (or even using songs to just do the actual healing).


Heck, I even like the idea of using music magic for utility things, like singing stone in to a bridge so you can cross the canyon or performing a raindance so you can get your crops to grow in time for harvest. All of these are really cool to me.


Singing and dancing in combat though? That just seems dumb. Like, I cannot wrap my mind around the idea of a bard or whatever running around a battlefield dropping his tunes and not getting his face shot full of bullets/arrows/spells/swords/knives/horrible things of pain and death. Even if we ignore the fact that defending yourself is a pretty easy action to take in most games, just the imagery seems ridiculous.


Help me internalize and accept the idea of midcombat song.

 

[Chaotic]

I'm sorry, but this post made me think of this movie ... so ...


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[Spiders]

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Try something like this. This would be amazing.

 

[Circus]

What is singing were thought of the same a mage would recite a spell, or a dance the same as the movement of a wand. Rituals needed to activate a spell.

 

[Pineapple]

Singing and Dancing are just Verbal and Somatic components to spell casting. Just as a wizard would need. Yet instead of some arcane chanting, it's a song, instead of hand movements it would be feet and dancing. Clerics Pray. Wizards do wizard stuff. Bards Dance.

 

[Shining Lotus Sage]

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[JayTee]

The problem I have with the whole "It's verbal/somatic components" argument is that a wizard just has to give you the magical version of a middle finger and/or say the magical equivalent of "fuck you!" and suddenly boom, fireball to the face. All in all it takes less than a second for it to happen


A bard has to keep dancing and singing in order for his music magic to take effect, which looks really stupid when I try to picture it in my mind.

 

[Pineapple]

The problem I have with the whole "It's verbal/somatic components" argument is that a wizard just has to give you the magical version of a middle finger and/or say the magical equivalent of "fuck you!" and suddenly boom, fireball to the face. All in all it takes less than a second for it to happen
A bard has to keep dancing and singing in order for his music magic to take effect, which looks really stupid when I try to picture it in my mind.

I agree, the bard is rather ridiculous. I don't like it as a class. I have very little love for the dnd 3.5 / pathfinder bard. However, i din't see it as impossible, only really lame.

 

[JayTee]

As someone who grew up in a family of musicians, like the idea of a bard (or anyone, really) who uses music for magic. I would rather it just take place before, after or out of combat. In combat music magic just seems stupid to me.

 

[Spiders]

It's all about how you picture it really. Sure you can picture some dude prancing about to make magic happen, and that is gonna look really lame. How about I give you a really different picture and see if that helps.


A bard goes into a long forgotten tower to rescue his love, who was kidnapped by Orcs. They leave through the entrance together to find the legion of orcs waiting for them. The bard smiles and takes the lady by the hand, beginning to sing. He leads his wife in a beautiful dance as his voice provides a sorrowful tune against the cacophony of tortured screams as the orcs dropped like flies, flames charring them from the inside out.


I don't know about you, but that makes me wanna pick the bard next time I play DaD.

 

[JayTee]

How are they not getting shot/stabbed/magicked to death while they're dancing?

 

[Spiders]

'Cause the orcs are on fire and stuff. Maybe he could sing a sonnet of paralysis or something.

 

[JayTee]

I'm not sure of any game that will just let you sing an enemy to death/paralysis like that. It would change my opinion on music magic in combat, though.

 

[Spiders]

It would be pretty cool. The beginnings of it are in Skyrim. There isn't much difference between using shouts as powers and singing as powers. Who knows what Elder Scrolls VI will bring? :bigsmile:

 

[Shining Lotus Sage]

I'm not sure of any game that will just let you sing an enemy to death/paralysis like that. It would change my opinion on music magic in combat, though.

WITHERING PHANTASMAGORIA


Cost:variable +1wp; Minserformance 5, Essence 3;


Type:Simple (Speed 6, DV -2)


Keywords:Combo-Basic, Illusion, Mirror, Obvious


Duration:Instant (see below)


Prerequisite Charms:Haunting Apparition Trick


This Charm expands Haunting Apparition Trick. The


maximum radius for evoking unnatural effects extends to (Essence


x 100) yards, or (Essence – 5) miles if the Abyssal has Essence


6+. More importantly, the Exalt may use these effects to cause


physical injury to living, mortal creatures within (Essence x 10)


yards. The Charm causes harm through blatantly supernatural


and suitably Abyssal effects. Chill winds freeze, frightful keening


causes the victim to bleed from the ears and so on.

 

[JayTee]

Huh, forgot about that charm. Kinda useless against anything that could really threaten an Abyssal, but still a good example of what I would like to see for combat music magic.

 

[Shining Lotus Sage]

Terrestrials have one, too. It's more of a direct combat charm, not a mook-cleaner.

 

[JayTee]

Three String Zither Prana, or something. It's a Wood Aspect Charm.

 

[Uncle ShortyB]

The problem I have with the whole "It's verbal/somatic components" argument is that a wizard just has to give you the magical version of a middle finger and/or say the magical equivalent of "fuck you!"

Not to get off topic or anything, but I believe this would be called "Bigby's Offensive Gesture".

 

[Miz]

Bards are a bit of a curiosity to me. I really feel like they should be within D&D or other Fantasy things but I disagree with the idea they are their own class. In the beginning they were not, Bards were more of a weird prestige class that had to be unlocked.


However that isn't to say Bards are bad, but Bards are based on the Gaelic and British tradition of wandering poets. Such figures exist in other folklore but they are especially popular there. They are pretty cool to play, but they do get stepped on by other classes because really they are just a merger of different classes (and were in the beginning). That is why they have some attributes of Rogue/Thieves (depending on 3.5/2.5 jargon), being tricksters and charismatic, some characteristics from Wizards/Sorcerers, being able to cast spells and be very knowledgeable, and some characteristics from Fighters, using bows and swords rather effectively.


You could even argue that they take from some of the spiritual classes too depending on the Bard, as they are able to tell stories and consult higher powers.


So I wouldn't necessarily say Bards aren't something to play but the real issue isn't their music-magic its the fact that they have every class rolled into one. Bards just in their role are "Adventurers" except now they sing and that isn't really enough to make a player feel like they are specialized. You are always the fifth-man, a jack of all trades but a master in none (and that might be annoying speaking there are several other masters in the game). I think that more productive thing would be to try and give some Rogues magic or give some Sorcerers some culture or give a ranger some extra spells and knowledges and you get almost the same idea.

 

[JayTee]

If there's one thing I'm critical of DnD for, it's having classes that exist for the sake of having them. The Bard is probably the best example of this, but I also point at the Sorcerer, Warlock, Druid and Paladin and wonder why they can't just be class variants of the Wizard, Ranger, and Cleric. They're all really neat ideas, but I feel like they work better as upgrades to base classes, rather than unique classes of their own.

 

[Grey]

Crucible addresses this in a number of ways.


1. Mundane bards. They sing hymns of valour at the back row of a formation of troops. This provides a morale bonus. Said bard may still catch a stray arrow, but it's that kind of setting.


2. Bard-Magus. This is normally out-of-combat stuff, but a Heartwright could use music as an amplifier for their usual ridiculous mind-control powers.


3. Bard-Witch. This would be our battle-bard. Their music can summon the winds of winter to slow and chill enemies, or call to the ghosts of dead warriors to fight for them. Generally, they have to hope they can magic an enemy to death before anyone is in range to axe them to keep it down (hyuck).


4. Bard-Diabolist. Your guitar is a Demon. Strum a chord and blast the enemy with hellfire.


Otherwise I think only Exalted comes close to maybe having an awesome battle-bard.


Battle dancer seems easier.