Realistic or Modern Saoirse (Irish Revolutionary Period Historical Questlog) *COMPLETED*

[Felis]

Uhh... personally, I wouldn't mind supporting the treaty. I'm really not that good with large-scale politics and gauging their effects, but there has been enough fighting for a while in my opinion. And if there is no positive development at all through a more political approach, well, I guess we could always start going in a more violent direction again then. But for the moment, I would really like to give a more peaceful approach a try.

Still, on the other hand, it seems certain that Joseph is staying in the IRA, and I'm not sure we should leave him on his own there. Also, if we support the treaty, how will that affect our relationship with Joseph? I know that's not really an argument of which side is "right" per se, but family and family relations are something to consider, too, I think.

I'm really not sure yet what I want to vote for.

 

[Pryno]

Can’t we just become politicians and do a propaganda campaign? I wanna do a propaganda campaign.

No, seriously, is there anyone in the Dáil who is still loyal to the free Irish Republic? Probably not, but it costs nothing to try...right?

 

[Historical Storyteller]

Uhh... personally, I wouldn't mind supporting the treaty. I'm really not that good with large-scale politics and gauging their effects, but there has been enough fighting for a while in my opinion. And if there is no positive development at all through a more political approach, well, I guess we could always start going in a more violent direction again then. But for the moment, I would really like to give a more peaceful approach a try.

Still, on the other hand, it seems certain that Joseph is staying in the IRA, and I'm not sure we should leave him on his own there. Also, if we support the treaty, how will that affect our relationship with Joseph? I know that's not really an argument of which side is "right" per se, but family and family relations are something to consider, too, I think.

I'm really not sure yet what I want to vote for.

You can't protect Joseph forever, he's got to do his own thing. Ma, Mary and Arthur are family too, even that kid of theirs means everything. Joseph isn't the only one you have to take care of, you need to look after the others too. And Joseph is a man and a hardened war veteran, he's least you have to worry about. No more, no fighting, no voting, just settle down and watch yourself and your family.

Can’t we just become politicians and do a propaganda campaign? I wanna do a propaganda campaign.

No, seriously, is there anyone in the Dáil who is still loyal to the free Irish Republic? Probably not, but it costs nothing to try...right?

Be careful with what you say, it will land you in trouble. In these troubled times, one wrong word will create thousands of enemies in an instant. That's all it takes. And by some small chance you gather enough resources to create a campaign, what exactly can you say to all the people of Ireland to get them to care?

 

[Pryno]

I was more thinking about supporting a politician that cares about the freedom of Ireland than becoming one. But in both case, the impact would not be significant, right?

ViciousVip3R , What do you think?

 

[Historical Storyteller]

I was more thinking about supporting a politician that cares about the freedom of Ireland than becoming one. But in both case, the impact would not be significant, right?

ViciousVip3R , What do you think?

Which politician will you back up? You've been spending more time fighting than rubbing shoulders with important people. Not that that's a bad thing, but you're ill-equipped to enter politics and dramatically alter events at this stage of the game. But, you could make a difference, though that will take a long time and you gotta have lady luck on your side. And again, just what will you say to both Irishmen that desire peace and the Irishmen who desire freedom? They're split and tensions are running high. It looks as if they're about to fight another war that will lead them to greater tragedy. You can't begin with a vague ideal, you gotta have vision, you have to send them a message that they will all listen to. And you can't just pick one side or the other like this, you need each other, especially in a time when Britain's clearly trying to get you fighting against each other.

 

[Pryno]

Here is the truth: I don’t know which one I would support. I don’t know how, but I can’t let it end like this. It’s not an option. It became personnal. I just want independance to triomph (and QS to win the elections, but that’s beside the point). I don’t know when will be the time to act, but we will have to act. Violently or politically or something else. I don’t know, but I have to try. I’m going to the IRA again, and if it can’t bleed enough to save Irish, then it can at least try to change the citizen’s opinion in another way. With spectulary actions and propaganda. We won’t go down like this. It’s not for family, it’s for convictions.

2.

 

[ViciousVip3R]

Interesting points from all sides. I have to confess that I have just been sitting back and watching everyone else debate.

My gut feeling is to support the treaty. After all, it was signed by the Dail we have sworn to serve. While it was a narrow majority, it is still a majority that we must do our best to respect. It won't satisfy everyone, but what example do we set for our fellow Irishmen if we refuse to honour the wishes of the many? The many that are as Irish as any of us. There isn't a side that is more "right" than the other, but we must set our personal convictions aside and respect what the majority of Ireland wants, and that is an end to the fighting.

(I would like to point out that choosing to support the treaty is not akin to declaring that we have given up the cause. As we currently stand, divided, there is no chance that we can oppose Britain, so we must regroup and work towards a Free Ireland while respecting the wishes of our people.)

 

[Historical Storyteller]

Here is the truth: I don’t know which one I would support. I don’t know how, but I can’t let it end like this. It’s not an option. It became personnal. I just want independance to triomph (and QS to win the elections, but that’s beside the point). I don’t know when will be the time to act, but we will have to act. Violently or politically or something else. I don’t know, but I have to try. I’m going to the IRA again, and if it can’t bleed enough to save Irish, then it can at least try to change the citizen’s opinion in another way. With spectulary actions and propaganda. We won’t go down like this. It’s not for family, it’s for convictions.

2.

Interesting points from all sides. I have to confess that I have just been sitting back and watching everyone else debate.

My gut feeling is to support the treaty. After all, it was signed by the Dail we have sworn to serve. While it was a narrow majority, it is still a majority that we must do our best to respect. It won't satisfy everyone, but what example do we set for our fellow Irishmen if we refuse to honour the wishes of the many? The many that are as Irish as any of us. There isn't a side that is more "right" than the other, but we must set our personal convictions aside and respect what the majority of Ireland wants, and that is an end to the fighting.

(I would like to point out that choosing to support the treaty is not akin to declaring that we have given up the cause. As we currently stand, divided, there is no chance that we can oppose Britain, so we must regroup and work towards a Free Ireland while respecting the wishes of our people.)

3. This fight does not belong either to the majority or the minority, it belongs to all of the Irish people. All the battles we fought, beginning centuries ago up to now, will lose all their meaning the moment we fight each other like dogs. What does it matter if you side with the minority or the majority? You'll end up being surrounded by enemies anyway, among them number your own people. Don't fight, you'll end up exhausting your strength on a pointless war. Don't blame yourself for things that are beyond your control. Just go home. You've done enough fighting for Ireland, now its time to fight for your family.

 

[Felis]

Sorry for disappearing for a while.
I tried thinking the options through some more, but since I didn't make much progress in finding a conclusion I'm 100% happy with, I'm going to go with my first idea after all and vote for supporting the treaty, option 1.

 

[Pryno]

I like how Felis is trying to be a pacifist, Heisenberg is sick of this shit, ViciousVip3R is trying to unite everyone and I'm just overly patriotic. Two of us are precious and the other two are pissed. That just makes me laugh. Don't know why.

 

[ViciousVip3R]

I like how Felis is trying to be a pacifist, Heisenberg is sick of this shit, ViciousVip3R is trying to unite everyone and I'm just overly patriotic. Two of us are precious and the other two are pissed. That just makes me laugh. Don't know why.

Haha yeah. That description made me laugh too! I guess we'll wait and see where the story takes us next!

 

[Felis]

I like how Felis is trying to be a pacifist, Heisenberg is sick of this shit, ViciousVip3R is trying to unite everyone and I'm just overly patriotic. Two of us are precious and the other two are pissed. That just makes me laugh. Don't know why.

Haha, now that you say it, I see it, too.

 

[The Omen of Death]

(Unabridged version: Felis is a pussy (pun totally intended), Heisenberg is brooding in the corner saying nothing matters anymore like a pseudo-nihilist, Vicious is trying to be the apologetic and getting everyone to get along, and of course Pryno is trying to show himself as revolutionary and hardcore yet you are divided as to your side. Anyway if you all didn't get it, that was sarcasm. Anyway the vote seems to be right now 2 in favor of the treaty ( ViciousVip3R was that initial post you made in favor of Option 1?) and 1 in favor of not supporting. To answer some questions Historical Storyteller I do need you to vote for something legit, I understand the predicament I put you in is very tough but I really don't see any other way to go about this Quest so I can't accept that response, if you want to abstain from this because you can't decide I will accept that. Also it would be terribly unlikely you could ever yourself or prop up loyal or yourself as a politician, I would probably say having been apart of the IRA (Pre-Treaty) that'd also make you ineligible or you'd get little support. It's just not feasible. Also for you guys wondering why you were laughing at Pryno's point, it's simply because that's the truth lol. Anyway once Heisenberg responds I will either write the next post or make the tie breaker or if there is more discussion you guys want to do I will sit back.)

 

[Pryno]

I have never been more offended in my life. Your words are as hurtful as knives. How dare you not know that I am a cisgender woman

 

[Historical Storyteller]

I'm abstaining.

 

[The Omen of Death]

(Considering nothing has changed since I spoke, the decision has been made, Option 1 in support of the Treaty has been chosen with 2 votes! Also let this be a reminder, you don't have to stop discussing this stuff, I would highly suggest discussing anything when votes come up! Anyway let's continue on and see what happens!)

"The Treaty is the best path forward," you say. "We need to stand by our countrymen and the Free State for the greater good."

"Michael! That's fucking disgraceful!" Joseph says, sneering.

"He's right though Joseph. You need to see reason!" Fionn says loudly.

"I'm not serving the British who executed our friends. Not a chance," Liam says. "Those who stand with the IRA, let's leave these dogs to serve their masters."

You watch as around half of the soldiers in the room, men you've fought with, friends you're shared laughs with, brothers in arms, storm out of the room, completely disgusted with you, just as you all share the same hatred of them for how stubborn and short-minded they're being. You watch as they walk out, even Joseph walking out with them, knowing this won't work out well. Only bloodshed lies down your path.

Six Months Later...
​

Over the next few months, hostilities rise between the forces of the Irish Free State and the anti-treaty IRA. In February, Ernie O'Malley, the Cork IRA leader who had sheltered you, manages to take over an RIC barracks in Clonmel, capturing 40 police officers and 600 rifles. There's a stand off between O'Malley and 800 of his anti-treaty IRA and 700 pro-Treaty IRA men under Michael Brennan over who will take over the military barracks in Cork after British soldiers abandoned it, which ends peacefully, thankfully, after the barracks is divided between pro-treaty and anti-treaty forces. Later in Cork, IRA soldiers raise a British ship, taking 1500 rifles, 700 handguns and 60 machine guns.

Then, comes a more definitive attack on your Free State. Led by Cathal Brugha and Rory O'Connor, your old friend, 200 anti-treaty IRA soldiers take over the Four Courts, the center of judicial power in Dublin, in order to show defiance and to provoke a response from the British soldiers in Dublin, hoping that if Britain's provoked, the Irish will be able to team up again in repelling them and the war can continue. You're positioned outside the Four Courts, ready to defend the Free State if these traitors make an attack.

In May, anti-Treaty soldiers take over the center of Kilkenny, before being dislodged by 200 Free State soldiers. There's a firefight, with 18 casualties, before peace reigns again with a truce. In Donegal, there's another firefight between pro-Treaty and anti-Treaty IRA soldiers, with two deaths. Also in Donegal, a Free State motor convoy is ambushed by Republicans, where one Free State soldier is killed In County Meath, RIC and anti-Treaty fighters clash, with one killed on either side. The election takes place, with pro-Treaty parties far outdoing anti-treaty parties. Sir Henry Hughes Wilson is assassinated in Britain, although whether it's by anti-Treaty IRA soldiers or a secret assassination by Michael Collins and the Free State is debated, due to Sir Hughes Wilson being an almost universally hated figure among Irish for his treatment of Irish citizens in the war. However, this forces the British to put pressure on the Free State to dislodge the anti-Treaty rebels from the Four Courts.

You're left waiting nervously to see what the Free State will send you to do, but you're completely willing to serve your country in whatever it needs.

Early in the 28th of June, the artillery attacks begin hitting the Four Courts and beginning the Treaty War. The artillery is meant to quickly force out the rebels and quickly end the conflict. Instead, it lasts through the day, before they decide to send in your unit to take the Eastern Wing.

You stare as the next barrage of artillery begins, explosive shells slamming into the Four Courts with explosive punches. You pause, wondering how many of your former allies are in there. Is Joseph there, among the other traitors, standing by the window with a rifle, waiting to shoot you as you walk by?

"Michael?" Fionn asks, as you return to reality.

"What?" you say.

"Did you hear our old friend Ernie O'Malley is commanding a large group of traitors?" Fionn asks.

"I didn't know that. Is that supposed to help me do this?" you say darkly.

"It was just an interesting fact," Fionn says, looking down.

You march along the street with the rest of your Free State unit, heading towards the Eastern Wing. Securing that and capturing the men held there. After a few minutes of walking down the street, you quickly come under-fire. The bullets smack into the ground around you, as you quickly rush behind cover, hurrying to dive behind a concrete wall. You stare over it, at a large rolling beast of metal and firepower.

"Dammit! It's the armored truck they stole, the Mutineer!" Fionn shouts at you. "Stay down!"

You pause, staying low and trying to hide behind a building as bullets thud off the concrete around you. You stare out at the heavily armored car in front of you, it's machine bursting down the street in an attempt to stop your unit from moving up the street to secure the Eastern Wing. You pause, wondering how best to take it out.

1. Charge the Mutineer with grenades

2. Move along the cover of the buildings to get in close

3. Keep to a distance, waiting for the artillery to take care of it

 

[Pryno]

We saw how well it turned out the last time we charged a tank from forward. We should take a better position, discretely. Futhermore, we don’t know who is in that tank. It could be a rookie, serving as canon folder, or it could be someone we know. Ernie is commanding the opponants, after all. 2.

 

[Felis]

I agree, charging in does not sound very promising.
Hm. I'm inclined to second Pryno's vote, but if we go in to take care of the Mutineer and then the artillery decides to do the same while we are still close to it, won't we be in a bad situation, too? Well, that's just assuming they would do that, I don't know how likely that would be, and someone has to do something, right?
Well, I'm just going to go with a tentative vote for option 2 as well.

 

[Historical Storyteller]

(Considering nothing has changed since I spoke, the decision has been made, Option 1 in support of the Treaty has been chosen with 2 votes! Also let this be a reminder, you don't have to stop discussing this stuff, I would highly suggest discussing anything when votes come up! Anyway let's continue on and see what happens!)

"The Treaty is the best path forward," you say. "We need to stand by our countrymen and the Free State for the greater good."

"Michael! That's fucking disgraceful!" Joseph says, sneering.

"He's right though Joseph. You need to see reason!" Fionn says loudly.

"I'm not serving the British who executed our friends. Not a chance," Liam says. "Those who stand with the IRA, let's leave these dogs to serve their masters."

You watch as around half of the soldiers in the room, men you've fought with, friends you're shared laughs with, brothers in arms, storm out of the room, completely disgusted with you, just as you all share the same hatred of them for how stubborn and short-minded they're being. You watch as they walk out, even Joseph walking out with them, knowing this won't work out well. Only bloodshed lies down your path.

Six Months Later...
​

Over the next few months, hostilities rise between the forces of the Irish Free State and the anti-treaty IRA. In February, Ernie O'Malley, the Cork IRA leader who had sheltered you, manages to take over an RIC barracks in Clonmel, capturing 40 police officers and 600 rifles. There's a stand off between O'Malley and 800 of his anti-treaty IRA and 700 pro-Treaty IRA men under Michael Brennan over who will take over the military barracks in Cork after British soldiers abandoned it, which ends peacefully, thankfully, after the barracks is divided between pro-treaty and anti-treaty forces. Later in Cork, IRA soldiers raise a British ship, taking 1500 rifles, 700 handguns and 60 machine guns.

Then, comes a more definitive attack on your Free State. Led by Cathal Brugha and Rory O'Connor, your old friend, 200 anti-treaty IRA soldiers take over the Four Courts, the center of judicial power in Dublin, in order to show defiance and to provoke a response from the British soldiers in Dublin, hoping that if Britain's provoked, the Irish will be able to team up again in repelling them and the war can continue. You're positioned outside the Four Courts, ready to defend the Free State if these traitors make an attack.

In May, anti-Treaty soldiers take over the center of Kilkenny, before being dislodged by 200 Free State soldiers. There's a firefight, with 18 casualties, before peace reigns again with a truce. In Donegal, there's another firefight between pro-Treaty and anti-Treaty IRA soldiers, with two deaths. Also in Donegal, a Free State motor convoy is ambushed by Republicans, where one Free State soldier is killed In County Meath, RIC and anti-Treaty fighters clash, with one killed on either side. The election takes place, with pro-Treaty parties far outdoing anti-treaty parties. Sir Henry Hughes Wilson is assassinated in Britain, although whether it's by anti-Treaty IRA soldiers or a secret assassination by Michael Collins and the Free State is debated, due to Sir Hughes Wilson being an almost universally hated figure among Irish for his treatment of Irish citizens in the war. However, this forces the British to put pressure on the Free State to dislodge the anti-Treaty rebels from the Four Courts.

You're left waiting nervously to see what the Free State will send you to do, but you're completely willing to serve your country in whatever it needs.

Early in the 28th of June, the artillery attacks begin hitting the Four Courts and beginning the Treaty War. The artillery is meant to quickly force out the rebels and quickly end the conflict. Instead, it lasts through the day, before they decide to send in your unit to take the Eastern Wing.

You stare as the next barrage of artillery begins, explosive shells slamming into the Four Courts with explosive punches. You pause, wondering how many of your former allies are in there. Is Joseph there, among the other traitors, standing by the window with a rifle, waiting to shoot you as you walk by?

"Michael?" Fionn asks, as you return to reality.

"What?" you say.

"Did you hear our old friend Ernie O'Malley is commanding a large group of traitors?" Fionn asks.

"I didn't know that. Is that supposed to help me do this?" you say darkly.

"It was just an interesting fact," Fionn says, looking down.

You march along the street with the rest of your Free State unit, heading towards the Eastern Wing. Securing that and capturing the men held there. After a few minutes of walking down the street, you quickly come under-fire. The bullets smack into the ground around you, as you quickly rush behind cover, hurrying to dive behind a concrete wall. You stare over it, at a large rolling beast of metal and firepower.

"Dammit! It's the armored truck they stole, the Mutineer!" Fionn shouts at you. "Stay down!"

You pause, staying low and trying to hide behind a building as bullets thud off the concrete around you. You stare out at the heavily armored car in front of you, it's machine bursting down the street in an attempt to stop your unit from moving up the street to secure the Eastern Wing. You pause, wondering how best to take it out.

1. Charge the Mutineer with grenades

2. Move along the cover of the buildings to get in close

3. Keep to a distance, waiting for the artillery to take care of it

3. Stay back! The traitors could be taking this opportunity to snipe you from the windows. Best you sit this one out and let the others handle it.

Hey, how you doing? And is the treaty sitting well with you? My position's changed, I've come to support the treaty, but only because I think we have no other choice but to accept it. Britain can sure as hell take our ports and dictate our foreign policy, but they have the battleships and all we have are some rifles, machine guns, and armored cars. What we need now is some peace, so we can lick our wounds and prepare for the next conflict. We can't get that if we keep fighting this war with our traitor brothers, so we'll have to give them a thorough beating.

Thoughts?

 

[Pryno]

Here are my thoughts:

WHAT HAVE WE DONE?

This was not a peaceful solution. There was simply no peaceful solution. But now, we are on the British side, the war won’t cease and we could find ourselves in a situation where we could have to shoot our fucking brother. I know, I’m a ray of sunshine and optimism

 

[Historical Storyteller]

Here are my thoughts:

WHAT HAVE WE DONE?

This was not a peaceful solution. There was simply no peaceful solution. But now, we are on the British side, the war won’t cease and we could find ourselves in a situation where we could have to shoot our fucking brother. I know, I’m a ray of sunshine and optimism

Hey, don't think of it too much, Pry. Just do what you gotta do. Shoulder on.

 

[Felis]

Here are my thoughts:

WHAT HAVE WE DONE?

This was not a peaceful solution. There was simply no peaceful solution. But now, we are on the British side, the war won’t cease and we could find ourselves in a situation where we could have to shoot our fucking brother. I know, I’m a ray of sunshine and optimism

I agree, though. This isn't quite what I was hoping for when I opted to support the treaty, haha. I.e., I didn't think we'd get stuck in an armed conflict again so soon. But well, I tend to keep underestimating humanity's capabilities for war and violence, so I should probably have seen it coming, now that I think about it.
Let's just try to survive (again) and not kill people we know personally if we can avoid it, I suppose?

 

[Historical Storyteller]

I agree, though. This isn't quite what I was hoping for when I opted to support the treaty, haha. I.e., I didn't think we'd get stuck in an armed conflict again so soon. But well, I tend to keep underestimating humanity's capabilities for war and violence, so I should probably have seen it coming, now that I think about it.
Let's just try to survive (again) and not kill people we know personally if we can avoid it, I suppose?

No, those traitors have to die. If we let them live, without getting them to an agreement, they will destroy the Irish Free State. And in turn, they will kill even more people. If we betray feelings of kindness, we will be sabotaging our own cause. So, prosecute the war decisively, don't let your emotions cloud your focus. Kill the traitors, who dared to rise in arms against the State. They have their reasons, we have ours, but we can't let them have their way. We must stop them, even if we have to kill everybody we knew there. You will save the lives of your own people in the long run, and with the lives you saved you can create a new life in the State. If you do your part, you will have nothing to fear from anyone, as you have already paid your dues to the world.

 

[Felis]

No, those traitors have to die. If we let them live, without getting them to an agreement, they will destroy the Irish Free State. And in turn, they will kill even more people. If we betray feelings of kindness, we will be sabotaging our own cause. So, prosecute the war decisively, don't let your emotions cloud your focus. Kill the traitors, who dared to rise in arms against the State. They have their reasons, we have ours, but we can't let them have their way. We must stop them, even if we have to kill everybody we knew there. You will save the lives of your own people in the long run, and with the lives you saved you can create a new life in the State. If you do your part, you will have nothing to fear from anyone, as you have already paid your dues to the world.

Yeah, I guess that's a more rational solution. Well, we'll see how things go, anyway.

 

[The Omen of Death]

(Option 2 has been chosen with 2 votes!)

You quickly dive in behind one of the buildings, machine gun fire flying past the street outside. You raise your rifle, smashing the butt of it into the window as you quickly break the glass and knock it from the frame. You clamber in through the window, finding yourself in an abandoned office. You move through the empty building, quickly skipping over the machine gun fire as you hurry along the path. You finally reach out at the other side of the street, climbing out of the window to find you're at the direct flank of the armored car, right next to it's side. You hide in cover, making sure they can't spot you, before planning your next move to take out the armored car.

1. Use your grenades to disable the Mutineer

2. Get inside its gun range and use your rifle to eliminate the crew and capture the Mutineer