News RpNation Rule Clarification PSA

[Captain Hesperus]

I won't challenge the sites decision for 18+ or not, as that's always a big topic. However the laws cited are wrong. While there may be Florida laws I'm unaware of, constitual laws to protect erotic content from minors got denied and COPPA doesn't cover it at all.
"


13. Will the COPPA Rule keep my child from accessing pornography?


No. COPPA is meant to give parents control over the online collection, use, or disclosure of personal information from children, and was not designed to protect children from viewing particular types of content wherever they might go online. If you are concerned about your children accessing online pornography or other inappropriate materials, you may want to consider a filtering program or an Internet Service Provider that offers tools to help screen out or restrict access to such material. Information about such tools is available at organizations such aswww.getnetwise.org(link is external) and www.staysafeonline.org(link is external), and from manufacturers of several operating systems."


Complying with COPPA: Frequently Asked Questions | Federal Trade Commission

The information you provided is for parents. As a site, we cannot positively confirm whether or not all users on the site are 13+, therefore we must operate on the premise that any and all users are potentially under 13. We are required to make all reasonable accommodations to prevent those who are under 13 (and indeed who are considered minors in whichever country they inhabit) from becoming exposed to erotic, pornographic or inappropriate content on this site.


Captain Hesperus

 

[Sunbather]

[QUOTE="Captain Hesperus]The information you provided is for parents. As a site, we cannot positively confirm whether or not all users on the site are 13+, therefore we must operate on the premise that any and all users are potentially under 13. We are required to make all reasonable accommodations to prevent those who are under 13 (and indeed who are considered minors in whichever country they inhabit) from becoming exposed to erotic, pornographic or inappropriate content on this site.
Captain Hesperus

[/QUOTE]
Just out curiosity - Wouldn't violence and cursing have to be abolished then as well? Afterall, these things cause entertainment mediums of all kind to be rated for adults etc. Right? The way the information above was worded means - to me - that sites etc. are required to inform people of the potential content on the site, but that noone but the individual involved in the act would be responsible. That's just my impression though.

 

[ehmygirl]

I love you ehm, but that's wrong and mean-spirited. The lady you called a 'dumb cow' spilled McDonalds coffee in her lap and got third degree burns on her thighs and genitalia and basically sued McDonald's to cover her medical costs.

I might have been a bit. I do remember though, and this is the dumb bit, that she placed the coffee between her thighs at the drive through. That is just not smart. We get a lot of lawsuits out here and people just like to sue people.

 

[Purr]

Heya folks! Re: Erotica. That's why we're RP Nation not ERP Nation ("Erotic" Role-play)! Heck, add one more letter to ERP and you can spell the word "DERP". Ha ha!


Thanks for the story-sharing, Cap'n; I had no idea anything like that was going on. That situation with the 12-year-old can't be the only example of why RP Nation follows these rules, but it's a darned good one! =)


Honor and fun,


Dann =)

 

[welian]

Just out curiosity - Wouldn't violence and cursing have to be abolished then as well? Afterall, these things cause entertainment mediums of all kind to be rated for adults etc. Right? The way the information above was worded means - to me - that sites etc. are required to inform people of the potential content on the site, but that noone but the individual involved in the act would be responsible. That's just my impression though.

Nope! RP Nation isn't a commercial product like a book or a movie, we don't follow FCC ratings. However, because the server is located in the USA, and the site owner is American, we follow American laws. And American laws say that if we just allow anyone and everyone to submit erotic content without making a reasonable effort to control content or control the audience, then we are liable for distribution of child pornography - which is a major offense and could end up with multiple staff members on a sex offender registry for years, if not for life.

 

[ehmygirl]

Just out curiosity - Wouldn't violence and cursing have to be abolished then as well?

To a degree, yes.


But, not really. We're an interesting people. Our nation thrives on Puritan ethics so we're the idiots who come into work sick, because that's one of those puritan virtues. Even though our nation has kinda sorta moved on from the Puritan movement, those core foundations are still a part of our national DNA.


One thing that is also a part of that national DNA is violence. Our ancestors were not the creme of civilized society when they first came here and violence didn't really offend them. So, sex is something that is not appropriate but violence is moderately okay- depending on how much actual blood, guts, and gore there is.


It's a cultural thing.

 

[Sunbather]

Nope! RP Nation isn't a commercial product like a book or a movie, we don't follow FCC ratings. However, because the server is located in the USA, and the site owner is American, we follow American laws. And American laws say that if we just allow anyone and everyone to submit erotic content without making a reasonable effort to control content or control the audience, then we are liable for distribution of child pornography - which is a major offense and could end up with multiple staff members on a sex offender registry for years, if not for life.

Ah, I see. I suppose since the violence isn't crossing levels of things like snuff, live footage or pictures of executions and the like, it doesn't go against federal laws, whereas erotic content crosses both, FCC/ESBR like ratings AND federal laws. That makes sense, thank you.

 

[FaithWynters]

Alright kiddos! Awkward story time with Faithykins


Sorry if this sounds like a rant, but I need to get this off my chest because reading through the comments made my heart hurt a little bit.


I began roleplaying on Anon Board (which used to be a little facebook applet thingy) when I was ten (ish). I thought “holy shit! Writing is fun. This is going to be EPIC”. I was a very sheltered little cupcake that didn’t even know that boys had different parts than girls did. I was so young that I roleplayed as characters ranging from little kids to character that were about 16. I didn’t understand how things worked really. I just jumped in icing first with very little guidance and tried to enjoy myself.


It was only my SECOND roleplay on the site that my character was forcibly raped (I didn’t know it at the time of course). Being a new roleplayer, I really had no idea what godmodding was and being a naïve and shy little cupcake, I hardly knew what the guy (who was much older than I was—about 16 or 17) was even doing. After several attempts to get away from a very descriptive attack by the opposing character, I finally left the roleplay and never came back.


This was the first thing that opened the door to sexual content, and it was a hellish door of flame and phallus (can I even say that?). Yes, all children must learn the subject of reproduction, but this little scene made me do research because I had to know what these odd descriptions were. When I finally found out what the descriptions were, I was enraged and a little disgusted. I was TEN and in a place I should not have (probably) been in, but I loved to write, and the first roleplay I had been in wasn’t horrible. It was fun and clean and great!


So no, I don’t think it is wrong for the site to allow thirteen year old people to roleplay on the site. If you love to write then why not? I think it is wrong for mature adults to assume their partner is of age and pursue them in a sexual manner on any type of media. If someone texted your child a very naughty picture—even if the person thought they were eighteen—would you not send it to the police? We make pictures with words! In my opinion, it is the same concept.


Of course, children now know about sex much earlier in their lives, but that was a little harming to me. I was afraid to roleplay for a little while after that because I was afraid something like that might happen again. It wasn’t until I read, hell, probably thirty to forty smutless roleplays that I was finally able to assure myself that it was just a freak thing that happened not-so regularly.


Looking back on it now, I realize that I wouldn’t want to have anyone to go through that. Children, in their curiosity, stumble upon things that one should never have to see. That’s why mother’s and father’s cover their children’s eyes if they think something gruesome is going to happen in a movie or even driving in the car. (My mom did that to me whenever the head would pop up in the water in Jaws).


Would you want your little cupcake being forcibly raped in a roleplay? Would you want your son or your daughter to willingly have sexual intercourse with another person in real life at thirteen, fourteen, or fifteen? Why is roleplaying in character any different? As writers, we know that these are small representations of ourselves and our beings that we portray (even if completely different from our real selves) on the screen. Everything we write comes from ourselves—than includes the smut.


So before you complain about what the wonderful staff is doing here in this lovely little world they have created for us, please think about that. How would you feel if your son, daughter, niece, nephew, sister, brother, or even the little cakepops you see sitting on the cute little colorful pallets at the library were having sex on the internet or were reading about the acts of others? Just think about that…

 

[welian]

Ah, I see. I suppose since the violence isn't crossing levels of things like snuff, live footage or pictures of executions and the like, it doesn't go against federal laws, whereas erotic content crosses both, FCC/ESBR like ratings AND federal laws. That makes sense, thank you.

Sure thing!


I'd also like to reiterate, that RPN isn't non-erotic because the Staff or the owner hate that sort of stuff. We operate this way because when you run a large site on a shoestring budget, it's better to be safe than sorry. Civil forfeiture is very much alive and well in the USA, and were law enforcement to have reasonable suspicion of lewd postings with minors on RPN, they would be able to go inside Dwiz's (or maybe Ghan's, I don't know where the server is stored) house - possibly even without a warrant - and seize the server that RPN is stored on. Then we would have no more RPN.

 

[PicaPirate]

Communications Decency Act[/URL] and the Child Online Protection Act both no longer constitutional and the only laws regarding erotic content online that is illegal being that of sexual acts by minors as a character, I can't find factual backing. The only law vaguely relatable through search that I can find is the Childrens Internet Protection Act, but this applies to educational facilities on a computer level to restrict, not to the level of a site unrelated to the centre to provide the limitations.


Im not saying we should go willy nilly on it, as there are multiple ways to somewhat control it. First and foremost, in a sense enforce current ruling through that the Report button exists and users can have any of their various rights revoked from the site based on their behaviour. It can also include actions such as users suspected to be under the morally applied age for mature roleplaying to provide ID or to have their mature RP rights access removed or other things for lying on the site.


Im just trying to understand what the evidence is to show the problems it can cause, when through searching I have found no cases of roleplay sites or the like being sued/shut down or even action against due to erotic content, but plentiful evidence to support the fact that there are no constitutional laws which the site has to legally abide by to enforce. Or I am just blind and cannot find them.


There seems to be also this concept as though written content will somehow skyrocket the amount of content on the site that would be of poor quality. I'd remind people that there is no obligation to continue roleplaying with a player or character who is harassing or you simply don't like to roleplay with, along with in group RPs the GM can decide yes or no if a player in themself should be allowed to go as they do. In personal experience, which will differ with other players based on sites browsed but is the only I can provide, all sites i have been on that allowed it had perfectly acceptable level of quality based on what i sought however if a player or RP did not have what i wanted, i just didnt roleplay with them. This is actually easier on a site like RPN, which provides incredible flexibility and ease to create and find a vast amount of roleplays, as supposed to sites which will focus on a few and/or can become difficult to manage.

 

[FaithWynters]

provide ID

What logical and easy way would RPN have of forcing thousands of users show a form of identification in order to play on the site?

 

[welian]

What logical and easy way would RPN have of forcing thousands of users show a form of identification in order to play on the site?

The evil side of me says a subscription service. You usually have to be 18 to own your own credit card, which then also comes with proof of identification.

 

[Teh Frixz]

How about we just keep doing what we are doing, follow the rules that have been the same since 2012, listen to the staff and if you want your jimmies rustled you can go off site to one of the literally millions of adult content sites out there.


There is truly no reason to get all ruffled up or begin implementing an intrusive and expensive system of filters and ID verification just to be able to write smut.


When it comes down to it, that's all it is. Characters and writers can do so freaking much as is to imply tons of sexual things without having to explicitly state it. Shoot, I'm guilty of that myself but what good writers don't to is start to write explicit and focus on details to achieve a goal that doesn't affect a character but affects you. Needless to say, we don't have to define that goal but that's what it is.


What is and has been banned is not "omg mah characters can't kiss" but it's masturbatory self fulfilling smut that doesn't have a literary purpose other than being smut.

 

[simj26]

[QUOTE="Teh Frixz]How about we just keep doing what we are doing, follow the rules that have been the same since 2012, listen to the staff and if you want your jimmies rustled you can go off site to one of the literally millions of adult content sites out there.

[/QUOTE]
To what level is this poor scrub able to love you for this statement? Actually, for the whole post? Because right now, you are sort of my hero.


but we all know enrique inglesias will always be my hero, baby. he can kiss away the pain~ HE WILL STAND BY ME, FOREVEEEERRR

 

[Sunbather]

[QUOTE="Teh Frixz]How about we just keep doing what we are doing, follow the rules that have been the same since 2012, listen to the staff and if you want your jimmies rustled you can go off site to one of the literally millions of adult content sites out there.
There is truly no reason to get all ruffled up or begin implementing an intrusive and expensive system of filters and ID verification just to be able to write smut.


When it comes down to it, that's all it is. Characters and writers can do so freaking much as is to imply tons of sexual things without having to explicitly state it. Shoot, I'm guilty of that myself but what good writers don't to is start to write explicit and focus on details to achieve a goal that doesn't affect a character but affects you. Needless to say, we don't have to define that goal but that's what it is.


What is and has been banned is not "omg mah characters can't kiss" but it's masturbatory self fulfilling smut that doesn't have a literary purpose other than being smut.

[/QUOTE]
Exactly. I can only speak for myself, but I mainly inquired because I want to understand stuff. But, RPN is doing super well, and I honestly love the community from my short time on here. I don't see any reason to change things. (except fix the notifications. hqhq)

 

[Elle Joyner]

Some of you folks seem to be neglecting the major point of this thread...


EROTIC CONTENT... is not allowed.


That means the graphic description of an act of a sexual nature - for those who don't understand that... SMUT. Basically, that doesn't mean you cannot write a TASTEFUL scene of two people engaging in an intimate encounter. How? Watch television, or a PG-13 movie ... It's very easily done using the art of leaving things to the imagination. All that you lose, essentially, are the biological bits, which frankly, aren't exactly poetry to read about anyhow. I really don't see how this is limiting...

 

[Teh Frixz]

To what level is this poor scrub able to love you for this statement? Actually, for the whole post? Because right now, you are sort of my hero.
but we all know enrique inglesias will always be my hero, baby. he can kiss away the pain~ HE WILL STAND BY ME, FOREVEEEERRR

To a level appropriate for our continued development of Internet personas

 

[Aldur]

What I don't get though is why we're making such a fuss now. This rule has not just made its way to the official rules overnight. It had always been there. Nobody complained about it before this thread because it didn't bother anyone or almost anyone. Again, this rule wasn't added recently. It was there to begin with and it didn't hinder anyone's artistic capabilities until now and it won't. As Elle said, there isn't any need to mention the biological parts to have a quality "sex-scene".

 

[PicaPirate]

I mostly enjoy playing devil's advocate by providing counter points, but either way.


ID is variable, we can claim for ID say a pic, but in the end the site isn't legally responsible, only to a varying moral level. Legal aspect I will concede if shown otherwise, though so far have only found what I hath provided.


Either way I won't go about circumventing rules, it's just I despise this taboo sexual acts (a perfectly natural act for humans to do and with consent harms no one) due to culture against maiming someone, which totally is in some form harm.


There is also that while novels written for the sake of erotica tend towards trash in own opinion (look at the 1 dollar books aimed for women in shops if those are still a thing), plentiful fiction cover it to varying levels to help explore stories, and that's no secret. Novels in themselves only have to not contain child porn in description (though can be alleged like our fade to black or whatnot) and beyond that are not restricted as to my knowledge that I can kind. The only case I can find was a site purposefully allowing child porn scenarios in text form.


So what about obscene content? There is in fact laws under the CEOS for content deemed obscene. Oddly enough I can find nothing on text but have found visual depictions of child form are totally illegal, thus why all sites ban child porn content as a whole. The other test if something is deemed 'obscene' would be the Miller Test.

1. Whether the average person, applying contemporary adult community standards, finds that the matter, taken as a whole, appeals to prurient interests (i.e., an erotic, lascivious, abnormal, unhealthy, degrading, shameful, or morbid interest in nudity, sex, or excretion);
   
2. Whether the average person, applying contemporary adult community standards, finds that the matter depicts or describes sexual conduct in a patently offensive way (i.e., ultimate sexual acts, normal or perverted, actual or simulated, masturbation, excretory functions, lewd exhibition of the genitals, or sado-masochistic sexual abuse); and
   
3. Whether a reasonable person finds that the matter, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value.
   

If all three are fulfilled, it is deemed obscene content. However roleplaying, much like novels, do not satisfy the third point as the writing has literary and arguably artistic value too. It should be noted the Obscenity laws and Miller test are often criticised for their clear subjectivity.


I'd also like to counter Elle's point with the fade to black thing. We cannot extrapolate what we have say in films for PG-13/15, because these films often just hide the parts that could be considered the sex part and will still often show nudity and the acts itself with parts hidden. For example take the TV series Vikings for those that are familiar with it, which in the US is rated TV-14. Yet all of the nudity and sex scenes would be deemed totally bad on RPN due to not even nudity allowed (I may have to be corrected on this, but ive seen players be challenged for implied baring of bodies in an RP). So for RPN, the entire scenes would be skipped with little to no implication.

 

[Elle Joyner]

The problem is in the implication -- if it's done the right way, then there shouldn't -be- any discussions of 'baring of bodies'... The difference being what television can show, but what writing can't. You can't WRITE a detailed sex scene the way you can show it - because ultimately, it doesn't work to write "Her partially shadowed bust area" in an RP...


What I was referring to, by fade-to-black (Which I would argue is not the same as what you're referencing), is when you see two people clearly on track to engaging in sex... but then the camera pans away to a lamp, or a shoe on the floor or whatever... and then it's magically the following morning. Nothing is detailed out, but you KNOW what happened... unless you're an abject prude, in which case this rule isn't really an issue.


THAT can very easily be done on RPN in writing. I've done it myself, plenty of times.

 

[Teh Frixz]

Human sexuality is not the same as erotica. I refer back to my other post in retort. I can make a scene where a character wakes up nude in a test tube, breaks free, absconds with alien scientist garb and move on. Thats literary, that's leaving things up to the readers imagination, that's what is allowed.


What's not allowed is me pretending to be doctor Who and another user pretending to be Garrus and we have a long detailed one on one about our bedroom antics for the purpose of fulfilling a fantasy to use as an aid.


What I honestly take more offense to is the idea of having to use IDs to verify age. That's beyond intrusive, more offensive to me than hardcore violence, and demeaning to many people. Not all 13 year olds are the same and I know many 22 year olds less responsible than 17 year olds. Blanket restriction policies are destructive to creativity and the joys of anonymity while writing.


Also, as an edit. You've got to use some personal responsibility. There is a large amount of Grey area in the rules and in life.

 

[Poe]

I don't think we're understanding the core concept here. RpN has a no erotic content rule. End of story. If you would like to partake in writing erotic content, don't do it on RpN. There is no argument to be made here, it is a PSA to remind you of the rules that have been in place for quite some time. It is a reminder, not a debate.

 

[PicaPirate]

The point of ID may be intrusive, but they are based on general assumptions done through law to give an idea of age by maturity. It ain't perfect, but its the best to go by. Sites like commonsensemedia.com can provide more into this. These also change through the years based on cultural change within the relevant country for that age certification.


Sure you could evaluate people on a case by case scenario, but that is so exhausting a process it becomes meaningless to attempt to do, simple logic should show that.

 

[Atom]

I am in full agreement here with @BeyondPoetry. The rule is not new and it's not changed. It's been here and it's here to stay.


As many have been told in the past, if you have a problem with a rule then I invite you to inform the admins in admin contact and discuss it with them. Otherwise there's no discussion here.


It's not a negotiable thing. You are being told that this is the rule, follow it. Plain and simple.

 

[Sunbather]

I agree with Frixz. I sure as hell won't show my ID in an online forum I go to have fun. ESPECIALLY not for the sake of being able to write or read smut. Like... what? I doubt anyone minds a vague mention of a person being naked, be it for dramatic, humorous or other reasons. I also doubt people will freak if a couple starts kissing and grabbing at each other a bit, and maybe slipping tongue, but after that a sentence like "and so they went on about it behind the closed door of their hotel room" or whatever else may suit the situation. Seriously, the ONLY thing that is banned is detailed descriptions of physical acts like inserting or orally stimulating... parts. And that really isn't needed. It just isn't. You can do the build-up to whatever romantic action your character wants to do without getting in trouble, and everything else just doesn't need to be written out. I personally don't really mind it, but it sure as hell isn't needed nor worth the effort a different rule would require.


And lastly, I really don't wanna see a plethora of posts about how two people fuck. Pardon my french, but it just has to be said blunty. I want to RP stories, not singular acts.